Ellen Page : Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

I don't really understand why some people think it was "career suicide"? Acting is about conveying emotions convincingly and understanding your character, and since the feelings of love and desire are the same regardless of orientation, it really comes down to talent. Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger were perfectly believable as gay characters and Neil Patrick Harris as a straight one, just to name a few examples. If Ellen was convincing in on-screen relationships with guys before she came out, why would that change just because we know her orientation? And if someone found her attractive before, why would they not anymore?

Of course there's still some prejudice and discrimination in the industry, but it's getting better and better. There's been incredible change in the last decade alone, especially in terms of stereotyping. At this point there doesn't seem to be any major problems for gay actors - even transgender ones are now starting to be able to have proper careers.

Most importantly, her life is about more than her career. She should be able to be her authentic self, and she said in her speech that she suffered for years in her mental health and relationships because she was scared to come out. Ian McKellen has said that his biggest regret in life is that he didn't dare to come out sooner.

She made a statement to help others - she felt it was a moral imperative, like Zachary Quinto and Anderson Cooper for example. As long as LGBT people have not reached full equality and acceptance, and children and youth are afraid to come out, it matters tremendously to have public figures like Ellen do it. When people claim that coming out statements or pride parades is to "shove it down our throats", this is what they don't seem to understand - hopefully we'll reach a point where it's not necessary anymore, but we're not there yet. Of course it's up to each individual if they want to address it, but I think it's very admirable of people like Ellen to do it to help make a difference.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Easy: Lack of sex appeal now to target audiences.

If you're directing a new rom-com, you want you draw both men AND women to the theaters. You need a cute, young chick that men are attracted to and internally lust for and that women can relate to while watching a movie for example: Jennifer Aniston, Meg Ryan, and Drew Barrymore did not just have their successful runs on rom-coms soley based on their acting chops. Sad, but true.

I was a fan of hers (still am I guess), but have no desire to her movies now. Would rather see Jennifer Lawrence and Anna Kendrick; my wife feels are the same way.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

So what you're basically saying is:

"I go to the movies to watch women that could be possible mates."

Have you ever considered that a movie is art? A story being told by moving pictures.
Why is it important that the actor (actress) could in theory be attracted to you?


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Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

I was using an example to answer the OP's question, from a Director's perspective. She's barely a good actress and now just limited herself to specific roles.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

May I add:
From a pathetic director's perspective. Because unlike producers good directors care about the story and the characters not about the money.

Unfortunately this is not true for many of the big names. *cough* Lucas *cough*

With this in mind you might have a point there. That's probably the reason why Ellen works mostly in the independent area.

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Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day

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Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Recently I saw people complaining that Neil Patrick Harris played a straight person in Gone Girl and they couldn't buy it because they know he's gay. So there are at least some people who can't or won't accept a gay person playing a straight role and if there are a lot of those types of people then you can be sure that whoever does casting will take that into account. As will directors.

You're right that certain directors are concerned about money but you're completely and utterly wrong about George Lucas being one of them. NOT. EVEN. CLOSE. I can see how you might have that erroneous belief but nothing could be further from the truth. You should find out more about him because most people don't understand who he is or the impact he has had on the universe of cinema...


We're from the planet Duplon. We are here to destroy you.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

It's true that Lucas had a huge impact on modern cinema.

I won't go into a debate if and how Lucas ruined his own achievments. But everything he did with the whole Star Wars universe clearly shows that he doesn't care for the art (the movies) or the audience.

The best example is Star Wars 3D. It doesn't add anything at all to the S 111c tar Wars saga. Nothing. It's just for the money. It's not even real 3D.
It's even worse than re-releasing an old movie with "better quality", which in some ways might be understandable given the fact that technology improved over the years. But fake 3D isn't an improvement at all. It's a sign for his greed.


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Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?


But everything he did with the whole Star Wars universe clearly shows that he doesn't care for the art (the movies) or the audience.


That simply isn't true. In fact it's completely back to front. I can see why cynical people think that though...

To give one example - which is all that's needed to show your assertion is incorrect - he not only allowed his characters and universe to be used freely by the fans, he has on many occasions actually helped them. When Family Guy decided to take the pi$$ out of Star Wars - something there's no way other companies, or people who didn't care about the fans would allow - he actually invited them out to Skywalker Ranch and helped them with it. I'm sorry but that just isn't a person who doesn't care about the fans or the audience. He may well have lost touch with his fans and audience at times - no argument there - but saying that he doesn't care about them is about as far from the truth as you can possibly get.

There are MANY other examples.


The best example is Star Wars 3D. It doesn't add anything at all to the Star Wars saga. Nothing. It's just for the money. It's not even real 3D.
It's even worse than re-releasing an old movie with "better quality", which in some ways might be understandable given the fact that technology improved over the years. But fake 3D isn't an improvement at all. It's a sign for his greed.


Got any evidence to support your assertion that his motivations are purely financial? No ... I thought not. That's because it doesn't exist. It's just a cynical way of looking at someone who has become incredibly successful by trying to give the fans and the audience what they want. Do you seriously believe that he could 1c84 have made that much money if the fans and audience didn't want what they were being sold? No ... of course you don't because that would be ridiculous. You're using as evidence some things that the fans didn't turn out to want and then putting the cart before the horse. George Lucas shouldn't feel in any way ashamed of being incredibly successful, and extremely wealthy, by caring about his audience. He certainly doesn't deserve to be told he doesn't care about them at all!


We're from the planet Duplon. We are here to destroy you.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

All right, since we're already way off topic let me just comment on one specific statement of yours:


... has become incredibly successful by trying to give the fans and the audience what they want.

Many, literally thousands of fans requested - very loud and emphatic - that Lucas releases the original Star Wars movies on DVD as they were released in the seventies and eighties. There were even petitions for that. Lucas himself stated that this is not going to happen, never.

So much for giving the fans what they want.

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Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

'cuz you're always constantly internally and subconsciously and consciously thinking about it while watching her or him in a movie whether you want to or not. it's horrible and tragic and that is exactly why it's a career ender or decliner and limiter and hurter. it really takes away her appeal, and fun of watching her and really takes away her sex appeal.

it's like thinking back on fond memories of doogie howser md when you were a kid and now feeling horrible and sad and gross about that part of your childhood now, now that you know that he is now gay, even if he wasn't gay when he was on that show. we all have conceptions and hopes and desires and attractions for certain actresses and actors that we can't change. that's part of the appeal of actors and actresses. their sex appeal and attractiveness, regardless of if we, the audience ever have a chance to get wi 5b4 th them, we in our hearts and minds and desires and dreams and daydreams, dream of being with them and having them for our love.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

I totally agree to that point.

In the back of your head - it's there, that's true.

I'm not so sure about the "... having them for our love" part.

The actor or the character?

We usually don't know the person behind the character. If we are attracted to a person in a movie, we're probably more attracted to the character than to the actor. That would mean we could still get that if she plays a lovable character.

But, of course, if you have that thought in the back of your head you might start to wonder if you "buy her girl".

It's a plausible scenario, I'll give you that.


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Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

what do you mean by "buy her girl?"

having them for our love is the actor not the character because the character is not real, you can't see or interact with them. it's both, but more the actress than the character. for instance even if they played a horrible person, I would still like them because my love for them(the actress) is more about how they look and talk than how they act or behave.

I also have always loved the bad, villain characters in horror movies. I dont' know why, but I think it's because I can relate to them, me always being an outsider and weirdo and outcast and freak and always shunned away from being a normal, social person with other people and never being able to get a girlfriend all my life. so I can live vicariously through the killer in a slasher film and live out my justice inducing, violent fantasies against women, in which I hate all attractive ones.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?


what do you mean by "buy her girl?"

I mean whether you are convinced she is a straight girl when she plays a straight girl.

The scenario I could think of is that one might become unconvinced at some point. Not because she doesn't do a good job as an actress but because you know she is not what she pretends to be. Even though this is what acting is about. But when it comes to sexual orientation the pretending might get problematic.


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Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

with her it might not ever be a problem though as the kinds of roles she has mostly been known for are asexual and not sexual.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Even if that had any basis in fact, Ellen's career was never based on sex appeal.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

She's had a pretty good career so far without doing a lot of those rom-coms ... I actually can't think of any, maybe I'm wrong though.

So what's a movie of hers that you liked that you don't think would be good now? The only role she's done that afaik has to be a straight character was Juno. I'd object to some of the twee dialogue but not Ellen's performance - she made that movie.

Would Inception not be as good anymore? Whip-it? Hard Candy? I have a hard time imagining someone who actually likes smart, tough, cool, funny women in movies but who would have such a negative reaction to someone for being gay.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?


Lack of sex appeal now to target audiences.
Yeah, right. Because there is nothing hot and sexy about Lesbians.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

The problem is less the believability of the portrayal but rather the risk of boycotts by *beep*

Think about it this way. I do not buy Orson Scott Card books because he is a crazy, homophobic, radical. I do not watch Roman Polanski movies because he is a child rapist. I make a conscious decision to boycott those people because I think their behavior is morally wrong.
Depending on the poll you read about 30% of the US population considers homosexuality to be immoral to a certain degree. So there is a risk that the same sentiment that makes me not watch Polanski movies would make those people not watch an Ellen Page movie.

This is something that influences the casting choices for movies. Ask yourself, if you were a casting director and you have the choice between two actors and the choice for actor A would reduce the potential target audience by 30%, would you cast that actor or would you rather go with the safe choice, the other actor? So by making herself controversial, she might have caused massive damage to her career.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

You have a very, very good point.

I haven't seen it this way before. But I'm wondering if the opposite isn't true as well?

Some people might consider watching a movie because they became aware of that strong young women who made a bold move.

However, I can't imagine a casting director considering this.

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Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Would you really watch a movie you are not interested in just to support an actor?

As I said, I do boycott movies and books if I have issues with the artists involved. But I can't see myself reading a book I don't enjoy or watching a movie I am not interested in to show my support. And I doubt many people would.

The difference is that you pass on most things anyway. I go to the cinema about once or twice a month. 20 movies come out in that timeframe and I am interested in 5 of them. So I know at any given time that I will not see 3 I am interested in. It does not hurt me which 3 those are since the net amount of entertainment I have is the same. My moral objections come at no cost to me. I watch two movies I want to see no matter what happens.
However, if I go and watch a movie I am not interested in, I waste 50% of my potential entertainment.

I think it's similar for most people.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

yeah but the problem about that is it only favors the less big population of gays while taking down the probability of straight people watching her movies. so, if you are straight it's good on the count of straight people still watching your movies and gays still watching your movies but just not increasing them watching your movies. go the safe, straight route.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Your reasoning is good but we're still in the realm of speculation about hypothetical circumstances.

In reality I'm sure most people don't care or even know much about the actors they're watching.

You have to consider a good amount of selection bias here on this board.
Or in any IMDb board for that matter.
The average moviegoer isn't interested in "behind the curtain" stuff.

I guess from the point of view of a production company it doesn't matter at all.
A few proud gays more in the theater plus a few homophobics less equals zero. The majority of people doesn't care.

It would be interesting to ask the average person: "Did you know that Ellen Page is gay?"

The usual answer is probably: "Who's Ellen Page?"
And next on the list would be: "Didn't she play a pregnant girl in that movie? What's the name ... ?"

Just because many movie-aficionados discuss the subject in movie related boards doesn't mean that there are actually many average people who care.

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Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day

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Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

but if it's even, the ones who like it and the ones who don't, which it wouldn't be anyway because more people are straight than are gay, the casting directors and producers care about if someone is gay in the public eye because their image decreases more than it increases the box office for a movie, so that is two things to one thing in the favor of her coming out being a bad thing.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?


because more people are straight than are gay

I was only talking about the straight people who turn away because they're homophobic.

You can't imply that every straight person is homophobic. I'm straight, I still like her. I still like watching her. I'd never avoid a movie just because an actor is gay and I think I'm not alone with this.


... producers care about if someone is gay in the public eye ...

That's why I raised the question how many public eyes actually do care or even know that she's gay.
I don't think it's too many.
Therefore, I don't think producers care too much.


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Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

but I would argue that more people know about this than you think. the internet has made it really easy and quite common for people to find out about an actor being gay. this is what happened with me: I wasn't even looking to find out anything about her. I didn't search for her online but, I saw something online about her coming out so I just saw it in a story online on the yahoo search engine. so, you don't even have to look to find out about an actor being gay, you are given this information whether you like it or not in a story on the yahoo search engine. you know how they put stories on yahoo. they are just there automatically.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?


but I would argue that more people know about this than you think.

This might be true. Unfortunately we cannot know for sure except someone makes a representative study.


... so, you don't even have to look to find out about an actor being gay, you are given this information ...

That's why I mentioned selection bias.

You and I, we have a natural tendency to roam about in many corners of the internet, potentially many movie or entertainment industry related sites.
While the average moviegoer doesn't get far beyond facebook, instagram, netflix and amazon. Although, facebook was probably swamped with "ELLEN PAGE OUT OF THE CLOSET !!!!!!1111oneoneone #pathetichashtag"


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Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Before the article of her coming out did you suspect or hear rumors of her being a lesbian?

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Ellen being gay was a big rumor years before she came out. Most people had already assumed it.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Whats your point?

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

You asked a question...?

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

I was not asking a question of were there rumors, I know people picked up on it a long time ago.I was akiing the person who I adressed as aware of the rumors or if he had suspicion that she was gay.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?


This is something that influences the casting choices for movies.


Is it, really? I mean there are not a lot of openly gay actors in Hollywood so it's hard to tell but it didn't seem to be a risk to have Ian McKellen in big-budget films like Lord of the Rings and Jim Parsons was the star of Dreamworks' Home.

I can imagine a few types of roles where Hollywood would be hesitant in casting an openly gay actor but Ellen's never been one to star in those types.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

In my post I meant that the thing I described was the possible outcome people were worried about.

I agree with you that times have changed and people were worrying too much.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Yea, Ian McKellen is always going for those sweet roles, the ones where he plays a desirable, sexually powerful, and most significantly a no-more-than middle aged man.

Oh, wait.

Yeah, I'm sure Morgan Freeman, Sidney Poitier and a slew of other near geriatrics could be openly gay and not have that limit their ability to play Dumbledore. It might impact their bank ability were they 20 something, and seeking a high mainstream profile.

Page was never going to tick the boxes for mainstream Hollywood regardless of her sexuality - bit parts, niche films, sure. And her being out shouldn't affect that at all.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

I don't think it's going to hurt her career, she's going to be able to get the same type of rolls that she got before, unless she black balls herself talking negative against Hollywood.

With Neil Patrick Harris it has hurt his career, which is sad he's a great actor.

Wentworth Miller came out as gay, his career is doing better then it did before.

I guess it's the type of actor you are and the rolls that you want to do.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?


With Neil Patrick Harris it has hurt his career, which is sad he's a great actor.


I don't know if it helped his career but I don't think it hurt him either. If anything he seems to be a much more high-profile celebrity than he was before. Looking at his Wikipedia page it appeared that prior to 'How I Met Your Mother' after Doogie Howser ended the bulk of his stuff was tv movies and guest work whereas now he's doing quite well for himself.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Matt Bomer is also doing pretty well for himself. He came out while on White Collar, I believe, which ran for several series. He won a Golden Globe for The Normal Heart, is now appearing in American Horror Story, and has a few different film projects lined up. Oh, and he was in the Magic Mike films, but I hesitated to mention that because I thought the first one was frankly terrible (even if it did have a few good-looking guys).

--
'Save me, Barry!'

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

I certainly don't think that coming out as gay would ruin her career. I just read an article on her saying that coming out has allowed her to take on more creative roles.

One thing I will point out: look at her IMDb page pre-2014. She had the X-Men films, Inception and Juno to her name as well as smaller films like Hard Candy and Whip It. Since she came out there doesn't seem to be many films of note other than Freeheld. But I guess it's early days to see whether she won't get any more big films, and as mentioned above, maybe she isn't as interested in doing blockbusters.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?


... as mentioned above, maybe she isn't as interested in doing blockbusters.


She said that many times in the past.
Apparently, it took a lot of convincing by the director to do the X-Men movies.


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Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

I'm guessing it might be due to marketing. Hard to sell to focus groups.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Elton John once said that when an actor is gay, there's an issue of credibility in the role they are playing. He didn't think musicians had the same problem.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Makes sense.

Of course a teen heart throb goes out the window when they come out, except to young gay men or women.

Cliff's hidden in his closet for decades pretending he just likes masturbating to healthy hetero pornography. But then his fanbase has gone from being bankable teenage single buyers to antique Christmas album purchasers - I guess if he came out now his fans, what there are that haven't died already, would have strokes.

Adam Lambert had a bunch of hits about the time he came out, and I don't recall him putting anything out that jumped to the top 10 since he did. Just like scripts for films, you have to get good songs bought for you, arranged for you etc by people whose major if not only concern is $$$$$.

Give that expensive song, studio time, etc to someone that has sex appeal to maximum 5-10% of the population, or someone that has sex appeal to a maximum 50%... I guess explains why unless you are Elton John, or very talented, it does matter.

I saw some rent boy of Eltons doing a terrible duet with him on Grahame Norton about a year ago. So sometimes coming out helps your career, if you take it from Big E 5b4 l.

Re: Why would coming out be 'career suicide'?

It's a power move even your careers in the pooper, just draws attention to you when nobody cares, she's his new role in some super hero flick where she's called the "thor-head" or something, like the old villain rhino in superman, she can bash through anything with her forehead..I dunno...anyways Hollywood's full of pedophiles, homos, lefty loons detached from any kind of reality so I treat them like my pet monkey...Just shut up and entertain me monkey!!

Re: Why would coming out be 'career suicide'?

You couldn't possibly need attention this badly.


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Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

because 'murica

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

It's hard to believe the character is straight sometimes when the actor isn't.

Some actors are just so good at playing a straight characters, like Barney from How I met your mother

Ellen Page has the mannerisms of a gay person, when she came out, I wasn't the least bit surprised. For her to play a straight character, it would be hard for me to forget the fact that she's just acting







Adjust your face; take your time, because it's about to be rocked off - permanently

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Not being argumentative here, but what exactly are the mannerisms of a gay person? I know women who act butch but are heterosexual, and I know men who act fem but are heterosexual. I don't really believe in "gaydar", but then I'm not gay myself so maybe I'm missing something.

Ladies and gentlemen...Mr.Conway Twitty

Re: Why would coming out be "career suicide"?

Her mannerisms tended towards the masculine, particularly her voice, which is quite monotone and matter of fact.

But it wasn't just that, her facial expressions and patterns of movement weren't feminine.

I have worked with alot of lesbians over the years, so it could just be that I've picked up on alot of the subtleties







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