3D Films : What's your demo disc?

What's your demo disc?

Earlier today I was reading a review of the movie Prometheus and the reviewer said in reference to the 3D that "you now have your new demo disc," or something to that effect. My first thought was, "why the heck would I need a demo disc?" But then I realized that when I first bought my 3D TV, I did in fact use a particular disc to show it off to my friends and family. By now they've all seen it, but I think that if I meet anyone else that I want to show it to, I'll probably use the same disc.

So my demo disc is the Imax Deep Sea 3D documentary. The 3D in it is terrific and the underwater photography is pretty interesting to look at. However, there's no story to it, so it's not like people are going to get so into it that they have to watch the whole thing, and even if they do, it's only forty minutes long. The lack of story also means that it's no big deal if people talk over it, which is perfect for demonstrating visuals.

How about the rest of you? Is there any particular disc that you use to show off your TV's capabilities? If so, what is it and what made you choose it?

Re: What's your demo disc?

Anything with fish is good on 3D tv but normally I use "Avatar" or "The Creature from the Black Lagoon" because they are in 16:9 format so there are fewer edges to violate.


"Make me a baby!
Make me a star!
Leave my coffin slightly ajar!"
- Lesley Gore

Re: What's your demo disc?

Is it really a big deal if there are edges to violate? I mean, I know that in Life of Pi, Ang Lee actually changed the aspect ratio for the flying fish scene so that they could fly right off the screen, but that seems like the sort of thing you're objecting to. Now I'm curious about your reasoning.

I must admit that I got Avatar on blu ray before I got my 3D TV, and I can't see myself watching it again just to see the 3D. I've certainly heard it's good, though, so I can see why you would use it as a demo disc. Creature from the Black Lagoon seems like an odder choice, but I'd love to see it in 3D. The only classic movie that I've found where I live is Dial M for Murder which Wal Mart carried for a little while. I picked it up right away. While it is a bit of a lesser Hitchcock, it's still a really good movie and I loved seeing Grace Kelly in 3D. Hopefully over time these classics will get easier to find.

One thing that bothered me is that I was pretty sure I remembered Creature being full screen. I checked my DVD and sure enough, it's in full screen, but it would sure suck if I've only seen it pan and scan. According to the IMDB page, the aspect ratio is 1.85:1, but the full technical specs say that the original ratio was 1.37:1. Any idea when they changed it and why? It seems like 3D films would suffer even worse than 2D films from tampering with their framing and composition. Do they have any special features on the 3D blu ray that discuss this issue?

I did notice that the two sequels were also full frame on my DVD, but they're both listed as widescreen on IMDB, so I guess they are pan and scan. Oh well, at least it's not a problem with the rest of the Universal Monsters Legacy Collections since the rest of the movies in them are all from the thirties and forties.

Re: What's your demo disc?

"Creature from the Black Lagoon" is usually shown 4:3 on tv because the broadcasters are either lazy or ignorant. It was meant to be shown with the top and bottom masked off in the cinema to make it a form of widescreen (also removing the telephone pole visible in the jungle background which is usually considered to be a goof by the director). It fits very neatly into the 16:9 tv frame, as most widescreen movies would, if the producers could be bothered. Reducing the size of the image in a widescreen 2D movie to fit all of it on to a 16:9 tv screen is fine but doing it to a 3D movie is criminal negligence as it seriously harms the 3D effect.
Unfortunately, zooming in on a 3D movie via the tv/player settings just breaks down the 3D.
Go here for more info on classic 3D restorations.
http://www.3dfilmarchive.com

Edge violation is the bane of 3D movies and most of the current crop just ignore it when lobbing things at the camera. This may be why the 50s classics look so much better.
Getting things to come out of the picture isn't easy but when it's done well it's very impressive, as in Arch Oboler's otherwise execrable "The Bubble" which is about to be reissued. Amazing Spacevision 3D but one of the worst movies in history. You have been warned.


"Make me a baby!
Make me a star!
Leave my coffin slightly ajar!"
- Lesley Gore

Re: What's your demo disc?

Hi. Thanks for the info about Creature from the Black Lagoon. Also thanks for the link. I've checked out the site and I will definitely want to read their articles in more detail when I have time. I did notice in skim reading the Creature article that they were pretty critical of the blu ray release. But you still find it to be a good showpiece in spite of the problems they talk about?

I'm afraid your talk about screen ratios and edge violation kind of threw me for a loop. At first I just assumed that you were saying that reducing the size of an image by cropping the sides off it to make it fit the whole 16:9 tv screen was wrong, but then I realized I had that backwards. Problem is, I don't understand why reducing the size of the image slightly would hurt the 3D, whereas I do understand why cropping the image, and therefore changing the framing, could be very detrimental.

I thought maybe I would get it if I understood what you meant by edge violation, so I tried looking it up on Wikipedia. The closest I could find was the term "Window Violation," in this article on Stereoscopy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoscopy Scroll down to the very bottom to the "Stereo Window" section to see what I'm talking about.

Basically, objects which are in front of the stereo window will appear to be coming right out of the screen, while objects which are behind it will appear to be further away. Window violation refers to when part of an object that should appear to be in front of the screen is cut off by the edge of the screen. This ruins the 3D effect because the object shouldn't be cut off by the edge of the window unless it is behind it, thus the viewer is getting conflicting information about where the object is.

It's up to the director and the cinematographer to frame their shots to prevent window violation from occurring. However, if the framing is changed after the fact in order to fit a 16:9 screen, then it's the people who pan and scanned the image, as well as the people who demanded that their whole screen be utilized rather than accepting a letterboxed or pillar boxed image who are to blame.

If edge violation is something different from window violation, then I'd be curious to hear more about it. As it stands now, though, it seems like the evils of pan and scan far outweigh those of letter boxing, especially for 3D movies.

Re: What's your demo disc?

Window violation and edge violation are really the same thing and to avoid it makes for lengthy set-up and shooting times so it tends to be ignored much of the time. The classic 50s movies attempted to wring the most effective 3D from every shot which makes them true 3D movies whereas the modern offerings are movies that also happen to be in 3D for various other reasons, so the 3D effects are secondary.
Fitting a letter box image into a 16:9 screen is not a small reduction. My view is that for 3D movies the screen should be filled and if a few extras disappear off the ends then so be it. I'd never suggest this for 2D movies by the way, I'm not a barbarian. Compare Avatar in 16:9 to Thor in letterbox: Avatar has far more effective 3D, even allowing for it being actually filmed in 3D.
The more image you have, the more detail you have, the better the 3D, assuming it was shot (or converted) competently.
Letterbox on 16:9 gives two sets (the tv screen edge and the film frame edge) of edges top and bottom so making the image appear more distant and window/edge violation more obvious and distracting.
It seems that the restorers of Creature from the Black Lagoon have moved the 3D window to produce a more out-of-screen effect whereas Jack Arnold's original intention was to go more for a feeling of depth, but it really doesn't seem to have done any harm, it still works very well.
Looking at House of Wax yesterday I realised that 4:3 3D on a 16:9 screen works quite well as the black bars at the side are far less disturbing. It seems that horizontal window/edge violations are far more annoying than vertical ones.

Incidentally, I'm not recommending pan-and-scan, which is an abomination to be shunned by all decent people, just a simple enlargement of the frame. The improved 3D should negate any image loss at the edges.

"Make me a baby!
Make me a star!
Leave my coffin slightly ajar!"
- Lesley Gore

Re: What's your demo disc?


So my demo disc is the Imax Deep Sea 3D documentary.


Mine too - and it has been for a long time. I don't think anything quite beats it. Plus there's no chance that the viewer will somehow get caught up in a story the way they do if they are watching a piece of a 3D movie.

Re: What's your demo disc?

First it was Matrix because LCD displays had problems with blacks and grays, now it's Gravity for 3D and Pacific rim for the whole experience, Audio and Video.

Re: What's your demo disc?

I've seen a couple already mentioned that I agree with, so let me add Tangled. It's absolutely stunning in 3D.
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