Rocky IV : How could someone as smart as Apollo..

How could someone as smart as Apollo..

be so stupid?

He was there to see first hand what could happen when you don't take your craft so seriously in Rocky's first fight against Clubber. Then he found a way to train and develop Rocky into the kind of fighter that can beat Clubber in a rematch.

In RIV, he forgot everything. Rocky at least went through the motions of training for his first fight against Clubber. Apollo did not train at all for Drago.

Apollo told Rocky that all Apollo could do was fight to satisfy his competitive drive. What about training other boxers? The reigning world champion was his protege.

He could have rode the success of the Rocky-Clubber rematch to train other boxers and teach them how to get the eye of the tiger. He could have written books, or become a boxing analyst on the sports shows. And none of those things require getting your head beat in.



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A dope trailer is no place for a kitty.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

Apollo allowed his sense of patriotism to cloud his better judgement. He had no idea until the first round with Drago how strong Drago actually was. He had thought he was going to fight a clumsy amatuer.

Also, I don't think it was ever stated that Apollo did not train for the fight. Obviously he was ill prepared, and Rocky had suggested postponing the fight. But what makes me think he did at least put some training into it was when Apollo suggested before the fight that he felt that he was now in the best shape of his life.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

But the difference was that Drago had fought in the ring in the last five years and Rocky said to Apollo that he hasn't been in the ring for five years. Apollo needed to go up against other people. Apollo lay dormant. That's the difference.

Your chains are still mine, you belong to me! - The Phantom Of The Opera

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

I do think Apollo still trained for the fight but they just didn't bother to film any training scenes for the movie. But having said that I don't think he took Drago as seriously as he should've. Similar to Rocky with the first Clubber fight. Perhaps Apollo was dumb enough to think that Drago would be an easy win since he was making his pro debut. Rocky probably was concerned because Apollo didn't seem hungry enough and was getting ready to take on a monster.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..


But what makes me think he did at least put some training into it was when Apollo suggested before the fight that he felt that he was now in the best shape of his life.


Through the time period of the movie that Apollo was still alive he was saying whatever was convenient at the time to try to win over whoever he was talking to to his line of thinking. Just because he said he was in the best shape of his life doesn't mean it was true or that he even believed it. That being said, Carl Weathers did show up in fantastic shape for this movie. They should have had him put on some weight to make him more believable as an over-the-hill boxer who had been out 5 years.

Apollo lost at least 30 IQ points between III and IV. Forget about his asinine decision-making for a minute, his drop in intelligence was especially evident in his dialogues with Rocky, where Rocky actually looked like the smart one (sans the part where Rocky thought Apollo said he could eat snails):
-Rocky's comment about the fight being "you vs. you" was a very valid point about Apollo's true fight being with his own midlife crisis but Apollo just brushed it off, completely missing the point.
-Rocky's comment at how "that ain't us up there no more" in reference to when they fought was another valid point about how they are both past their primes and can't perform at the same level that they used to but Apollo once again missed the point and went off on some *beep* tirade about how "you can't change who you really are blah blah blah..."
-In the dressing room before the fight he says "say i postpone and someone else whips this chump, where does that leave me?" Um, wasn't this guy 46-0 all by KO before his first fight with Rocky? He needs an exhibition fight to cement his legacy? He's talking like he never accomplished anything.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

Apollo was too proud to realize how formidable an opponent Drago was. Yes, he was only an amateur, but he was big, well trained and artificially enhanced. Apollo could not defeat Rocky-winning by decision in Rocky and Rocky knocks in him out in Rocky II. How on earth he thought he could knock out Drago is beyond me. Even as the fight started, he wasn't taking it seriously. He was still dancing around Drago. For Drago, this was his chance to prove himself as a true pro boxer title contender.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

Rocky was defending his belt as well as trying to regain it when he fought Clubber, meaning the fight counted. Drago vs Apollo was an exhibition fight, it was never to be as serious as it was.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

I've said it before, I believe Apollo wanted to die.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

Why do you think so, jsn? It is strange that Apollo missed the ring so much that he would risk his life and leaving his wife and young children to prove that he still had it, or to make a point about patriotism. He took the bout more seriously from a political standpoint rather than sports. Once he had made a fool of himself getting offended at Ludmila's suggestion that Drago could win, there was no turning back.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

Earlier on when him and Rocky were watching home videos Apollo talks about being a warrior and without a war to fight then the warrior may as well be dead. By the time he got in the ring with Ivan Drago he realized he couldn't take him and he knew even if he had survived he wold probably never box again. Also during the fight he may have felt shame like he was going to get slandered by the press like he did in Rocky 2 because he talked so much crap and saying he was going to stomp Drago in 2 rounds when in fact he was the one getting stomped in two rounds.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

The other theory I have is Apollo may have realized he could no longer box like he used to earlier on in the film when him and Rocky were watching the Rocky 2 fight and then Rocky starts going on about "that ain't us up there no more we can't fight the way we used to." I think deep down Apollo realized Rocky was right and that's where he decides to fight Drago and all the way leading up to the fight he knew Drago would destroy him.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

It's your theory, I know, but that means that Apollo's priorities are out of wack. I think he put his patriotism ahead of his family. Rocky did the same in his wish to avenge him, and it ended up costing him his career, too.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

Indeed he did that's why he didn't care if he died he didn't realize who he would be leaving behind.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

@jsn_hylnd While I don't agree with your Apollo theory, it's pretty compelling. Champions have a different (kinda screwed-up) way of seeing things than the rest of us, that's one reason they're champions.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

I remember having a ROCKY IV posterbook (remember those things?) when this was first released. And it had stills in it, showing Rocky training Apollo for his fight with Drago. There's so much missing from the theatrical version (the trailer proves this) I just think Stallone wanted this movie to clock in at 90 minutes, and edited out a whole bunch of filmed material




Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

@dolemite72 Four words: Rocky IV Extended Edition. Make it happen, Sly.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

I wish they would make special editions of all the movies. There's a few scenes in the ROCKY II trailer that never made the cut as well. I wish they'd release the ROCKY V workprint also




Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..


And it had stills in it, showing Rocky training Apollo for his fight with Drago.



Any way you could scan those pics and post a link?

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

@jsn

The main thing that makes me think your theory is probably wrong is the whole way Apollo handels this fight. If Apollo truely went into that ring fully expecting (and hoping) to never leave alive then I feel he would have went all out and gave Drago everything he had. He would have been a warrior going down but not without a fight. He never gives Drago a fight. He dances and mocks him the whole time. Once he starts getting pounded on it was to late. He should have came out when the bell rang and unleashed whatever fury he had left before Drago was able to eventually over take him.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

I think Apollo was desperate to get back in the limelight. His line about how everyone forgets you once you're outside the ring made me thing this.

Apollo probably thought he could beat Drago. He's a former World Champion and it's Drago's first professional boxing match. He was probably hoping to beat him by getting in his head with all smack talk and showboating he did before and during the fight. Clearly it didn't work.

I don't think he wanted to die either. He would have been such a joke after all the smack talk he did before the fight. It would have happened if he didn't end up dying.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

It was one of the few things that I disliked about Apollo and the Rocky movies. Apollo was supposed to be the best, which also entails being a smart boxer. How Apollo got to be the best fighting as impulsively as he does, and not taking opponents seriously requires a little more suspension of disbelief that I am capable of.

- The General has spoken.

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Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

It was hubris. Actually, Apollo being full of himself and jumping into a dangerous situation was quite in line with the Apollo from Rocky 1 and 2.

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Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

He also could work as ballarina in bolsoi,BUT THIS DOES THE FIGHTERS DO: THEY FIGHT! (or fight dying) ;-)

I'm not rich!I'm just a poor man with money. :) (from the movie: Love in the Time of Cholera)

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

Most great fighters fight on too long, well after they are far past their primes. Some of that is financially driven, which isn't the case with Apollo as he is rich and the new Creed movie shows that his widow is still living in that mansion 30 years later, but there's other factors too. Some just miss the competition, which Apollo talks about with Rocky, saying he can't simply turn off his killer instinct and competitive drive.

The structure, sense of purpose/accomplishment, the limelight. Sugar Ray Leonard once said "there's nothing that can match the feeling you get from a big fight with all eyes on you...the rush". Apollo clearly enjoyed the limelight.

It's definitely the exception in boxing when a great fighter retires in on near his prime. The norm is the sad story of the boxer going on too long, a shell of what he once was, and losing to some guy he would have handled in his prime.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..


How could someone as smart as Apollo..be so stupid??


...your gonna feel a slight sting... thats Pride.. f__king wit you.

OHHH GOOOD FOR YOU!!

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

Apollo was miserable after retiring and wasn't thinking straight.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

What made Apollo do a 20 minute song and dance number right before the fight? That's like half of the fight right there.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

"Rocky IV" had a ton of filler. If you take away the lengthy James Brown song and dance, the montages and the flashbacks the movie is less than an hour.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

I think Apollo was just bored beyond repair. When he first heard about Drago, he was playing in the pool with his dogs. He appears to be happy and content, but I suppose he had to prove to himself and others that he's still a fighter and fighters never stop fighting. Or something like that. Apollo could have coached youth football or opened a restaurant during his retirement. The money Rocky gave him to fight Drago in the exhibition match could have gone towards the restaurant. James Brown could have performed at the grand opening.

Re: How could someone as smart as Apollo..

Training the winner wasn't enough. He had to be the winner. That is who Apollo was. That was what made him a leader in the sport of boxing. He did the work. He showed the way. Sadly that ego is what got in his way.
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