Sex and the City : Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

So when Carrie was gonna go to Paris with Petrovsky Miranda was upset because she felt like Carrie was giving up all sense of independence to go live in Paris and do nothing really except eat croissants and shop lol. I think that Miranda brought up solid points to Carrie, she was giving up her job to go live someone else's life and Petrovsky was totally pretentious and condescending. But the way Carrie reacted to Miranda's comments about her was really immature and ridiculous, IMO. And in another scene Carrie was also ridiculous because she got mad at the girls for continuously asking questions about the logistics. Those are my moments where I disliked Carrie.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

Miranda was being really blunt and in my experience people don't like to be told their bad life choices are bad. So it was a bit immature of Carrie but I feel like pretty confident people who exclusively criticize Carrie would pretty much do the same things in those situations (because people who think that any flaw in anyone else is just the worst have no sense of flaws in themselves).

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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

In that scene I cringe when Carrie says to Miranda after she tells her she doesn't like the Russian...'Then don't YOU go to Paris with him" lol - great comeback Carrie.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

I do like that comeback actually. I am very much a "live and let live" person. I am 31 and dating a 53 year old man. At the beginning of our relationship (going on a year now), people would give me a look or say something that there is an age difference. I would say back, "If you have a problem with the age difference, then YOU don't date someone 23 years older." That shut them up.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

Yeah, as if you didn't know there was an age difference? I could see people being concerned with say an 18-20 year old dating someone older because you're still pretty inexperienced and impressionable, but in your 30s you really don't need people's thoughts on who's appropriate for you to date.

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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr


In that scene I cringe when Carrie says to Miranda after she tells her she doesn't like the Russian...'Then don't YOU go to Paris with him" lol - great comeback Carrie.


I was just gonna say that! It's such a stupid thing to say back to Miranda who is trying to have an adult conversation with her. Ugh, I don't get Carrie sometimes!

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

I think Carries behavior was like that cause she didn't want to think about those things. Deep down I think Carrie knows her going with him was the wrong thing to do.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

That was the second time Miranda got into a dispute with one of the girls over a choice that involved their career and a man. I understand that she cared about her friends, but she was wrong.

Miranda had a huge problem with men obviously, and she got angry when her friends did things involving the men in their lives that she would never do. Someone had to tell her to back off.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

In both instances she was absolutely right. Carrie became angry because Miranda was asking questions about things Carrie didn't want to think about. She was trying to get Carrie to see the situation for what is was. The first time with Big, she was tired of having to deal with seeing Carrie hurt every time she got back together with Big, and told her she didn't want to hear about it if she makes the same mistake over and over.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

She also got into it with Charlotte about quitting her job because Trey suggested it. I can see where Miranda can be a bit blunt, but in each case she was RIGHT, lol. Later on when her relationship with Trey didn't work out, Charlotte is boo-hooing about her career because no one will hire her. That wouldn't have happened if she kept her job.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

When you think about it, Miranda, as stubborn and unwavering and blunt, she was the most reasonable. Out of all four of them she seemed to have the most growth as a person. I didn't like her initially, but after rewatching the series she is the one I like the most ven though I still was against some of choices.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

That is the other time I was referring to when I said that it was the second time Miranda had a problem with the decisions that were made. (just had to point that out since other posters thought that I was referring to Alexsander and Big)

Yes in the end she was right, but there is a fine line between being concerned for a friend and not minding your own business. Miranda loved her friends, there wasn't a doubt about that, but she didn't like it when her friends made decisions with the man that they were involved with because she saw it as doing what he says - not good even if she is right.


At least the writers kept it realistic in the sense that the girls went along with their plans no matter how vocal Miranda was about it. Situations like that rarely end up in favor of the friend, it usually ends up with the friend saying/thinking "I told you so!"



I really like your car Mrs. Larusso!

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

It doesn't matter if Miranda brought up solid points or not. She's being overly protective and annoying. Moving to another country of different culture and language is scary enough, and the least you want is a friend bringing up the doubts in the name of love and scare you even more.

Carrie might be childish the way her responding to Miranda, but what else could she say? It's clearly she's confused about the future with Alexander but she also felt her life was stuck in New York and wanted to make a breakthrough. Carrie was at a point where she needed to take a leap of faith to experience her life in another country with another man so she didn't have to spend the rest of life wondering "what if"? What's so wrong about that?

Miranda meant well, but her approach to Carrie was wrong. She treated Carrie like her child and criticized her choice of a boyfriend whom she barely knew. Honestly, I doubt people like Miranda would actually have a friend would wanna confide in her who's so judgmental and cynical.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr


Honestly, I doubt people like Miranda would actually have a friend would wanna confide in her who's so judgmental and cynical.


I agree. If Miranda had a teenaged daughter, I bet she'd do anything to hide her private life and thoughts from Miranda.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

I'd want to know the truth. I think that's what makes a true friend.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

People often need a person to tell them the hard truth, but it takes a level of maturity to take it. A true friend gives the hard truth, an immature child reacts to it the way Carrie did.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

Miranda didn't criticize Alek. She criticized Carrie and her choices. Carrie had just met the man and she was moving to another continent to be with him and she didn't have a plan for herself there. Of course Miranda said something about that. If carrie had gotten a job there, if she had something of a life of her own Miranda wouldn't have been so critical.

"I will not be strong armed by threats against my laundry"

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

We all know Miranda was right, even Carrie, but as a friend your job is to support your friend's decisions, I mean she's moving to Paris with a rich man who loves her, it's not like she's shooting up heroin with a junkie, so sometimes you need to know when to let it go and let your friends figure out things on their own, which is what Charlotte and Samantha did, they had their questions and realized Carrie didn't wanna hear them so they step aside and let her be.
Miranda's annoying ass didn't, she kept going at it, irritating her friend and crating even more confusion.

Carrie also had a point tho, Miranda's opposition came from a place of selfishness, Miranda didn't want Carrie to go away, period, she wanted Carrie to always be there for her as her life changes, completely ignoring the fact that Carrie was completely stuck until the Russian came along.

Previously known as college dropout kid.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr


but as a friend your job is to support your friend's decisions

What? What a silly thing to say. Why would you say that?

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

I think eventually Miranda put her feelings aside even though she thought it was a huge mistake for Carrie to go. Although when Carrie called to say she lost her necklace Miranda immediately said "come home!". So she didn't completely stop voicing her opinion but I mean, c'mon, Carrie had been a staple in her life for years...

It was a hard transition for Miranda to have Carrie not there after years of a solid, tight, friendship. On the other hand, she was negative about it from the get-go. I feel like since she didn't know Aleksandr and only met him twice, her opinion of him was rather sour. Instead of trying to get to know him better she acted like a child, talking about him after the dinner party, when she didn't really know him at all.

I guess I see both sides, Carrie wanted to do something different with her life, something exciting & new. I never really thought she had chemistry with Aleksandr not like she did with other boyfriends anyway. But, if it was the decision she was making at the time, I would hope her best friends would be supportive. So I understand why she got a little annoyed with Miranda.

I thought it was funny that she was complaining to Samantha about Miranda not liking Aleksandr and how she was asking all these questions but then she said, "The thing is though, she's right. What about my job, and apartment..." I feel like Miranda was just looking out for her and thinking about the realistic things in Carrie's life not just about how glamorous it is to move to Paris!

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

Carrie was angry because she didn't want to hear the truth. Carrie was in a way somewhat um.... jealous? That she was the only one not in a solid relationship. Recall how she said "Even Samantha has someone" I think was the line. But she she did not want the truth to ruin her fantasy. I do not think it would have been in character for Miranda to not say something.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

I think that the line only works in a situation that wasnt so obviously flawed like Carries was. Yes, you are supposed to support your friends, but a true friend tells you when you are making a mistake, not support everything even if harmful.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

I think it's a friend's "job" to be honest. That doesn't mean brutal or overbearing about it but pretending that every decision your friend makes is good and "supporting" them isn't true friendship. There's definitely a right and wrong way to verbalize your thoughts, and some situations may call for a half-smile, yeah ok if that's what you want to do approach, but fake friendships are built on constant unquestioning "support"...a person would be fortunate to have true real relationships.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr


Carrie also had a point tho, Miranda's opposition came from a place of selfishness


That's such a good point. Even though Miranda had made the same point about Charlotte quitting her job, this time Miranda had an agenda, and it made it hard to separate the messenger from the message.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

BS!

Miranda has a VERY good reason that wasn't stated (but it's obvious if you think about it): WHO is going to have to cushion Carrie's crashing and burning when it hits her in the face that it was a mistake?

THEM (her friends and Big).

It's them whom are going to have to deal with the mess, for on who else is Carrie going to rely on?

So no wonder she's trying to keep her from doing such a mistake.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

You've just reinforced my point - Miranda had an agenda.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

Doesn't mean it is a bad one, or that she is not telling the truth.

She's simply killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

She just reinforced that Carrie doesn't think things through properly and needs to use her head more. Her friends being honest is what someone like Carrie needs. Going to Paris to live isn't the same as going to vacation. Carrie wasn't moving from New York to Chicago. She was going to Paris. She would need to became a citizen, get new group of friends, learn the language, get a job (Carrie herself has made a big deal about her independence. I cant see her liking to living off of Alexander the rest of her life) which would be hard because she doesn't know the language very well, and there are so many other things that she would have to do. On top of all that she's moving with man she doesn't know very well. Women Carrie age should think about that kind of stuff. She couldn't even handle it for couple weeks so Miranda was right.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

To me people need to sometimes hear blunt honesty. Being friend isn't always about sugar coating everything. Yes I have friend who is like Miranda. We have been best friends for 15 years. My mom is a lot like her as well. Were very close. I respect their opinion the most and if I need advice they are people I go to. Not every situation needs to be treated with kids gloves.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

"To me people need to sometimes hear blunt honesty. Being friend isn't always about sugar coating everything. "

Totally right.

If you can't do that to your loved ones when you see them doing something wrong, you're an enabler, no different from a loving mother whom can't refuse his drug addicted son's request for more money to buy drugs.

I mean the Russian never even said he loved her (not once), and she thinks tagging along is a good idea? He clearly can't think past his career, no wonder he's divorced and estranged from his own daughter (whom by the way they interact mas as well be a distant niece).

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

I know right. I don't understand why people think loved ones need to always say what people want to hear rather than the truth. Something that was major red flag to me was how flippant he was about Carrie having questions about going to Paris. He seemed like she should have give up her whole life in New York while having no questions. That's a big change especially when your moving to completely different country, and don't know the language very well.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

I think you all have valid points. When you see your friend is making wrong or misguided decisions (serious ones), the right thing to do is to try and make them see what you're seeing, but not be so angry and forthright that you alienate your friend and they don't think they can rely on you anymore. We all make mistakes, and when we do we need our friends, our support network. Miranda always walked this fine line, especially with Carrie. She would be SO patronising and furious with Carrie that Carrie would then feel she may not be supportive of her when she admitted she was wrong.

You don't have to support your friend's decisions if you feel they're wrong, but support your friend. Because when she crashes and burns, she will need you. And if she thinks you won't be there for her or thinks she'll be barraged with "I told you so's", she may stay in the toxic lifestyle/relationship.

A simple "i think this is a mistake and i wish you would think about it more, but i'll always be here for you regardless" is sufficient. But doesn't make for good television does it.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

Well said, tina. Obviously there's a way to voice your concern while being supportive, and that's sometimes a hard line to walk, especially if your friend is just being an idiot. Obviously attacking or berating isn't going to make someone reconsider their mistake, but you don't want to be "sure that sounds great" because that's not supportive to keep your concern to yourself.


A simple "i think this is a mistake and i wish you would think about it more, but i'll always be here for you regardless" is sufficient. But doesn't make for good television does it.


Yeah Miranda isn't the most diplomatic, but that would be a good way to phrase your concern and support. Miranda was sometimes too judgmental, even if she had good intentions and was usually right.

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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr


Miranda was sometimes too judgmental, even if she had good intentions and was usually right.


The funniest thing is that i think Miranda was always right! If she wasn't so abrasive, she would have been a much better voice of reason. You're right that she always had good intentions, whereas the way Carrie attacked her over breaking up with Steve in the movie was just plain cruel and served no purpose but to hurt her.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

Miranda might have been "always right" about her friends' life choices, but she certainly made some questionable ones of her own! I think anyone with any experience, and anyone who knew Miranda could have predicted that Steve would be a terrible choice as a long-term partner, and as such, Miranda should not have had his baby. They had dissimilar backgrounds and nothing in common.

(I am not promoting abortion here; there are other options.)

But I don't recall anyone pointing this out to her.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

But a life partner and a baby aren't a package deal. Miranda wanted a baby and at the time didn't want Steve as her partner. She also seemed pretty happy with having Brady and later being with Steve. How is it a bad choice because it's not what you would have personally done? She seemed pretty happy about it.

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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

But she wasn't happy to be pregnant with Steve's baby, although it may have had more to do with being on her own. She got as far as keeping an appointment for an abortion. Miranda wasn't dreaming of marriage and family as Charlotte was, but she definitely wanted a loving partner and also said she wanted a child. She would have known that being a single mother could impact her chances of finding a good partner.

Her subsequently falling in love with Steve and marrying him was a mystery to me. To me, they were never a plausible couple.

But my point is that Miranda evaluated her friends' choices from a rational standpoint, but not her own.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

Well she was happy enough to do it as she did it. It's not like I've ever heard a women enjoy pregnancy. But they had established she tried to freeze her eggs and had made comments if she ever had a son, and obviously her desire to be a mother was stronger than ehr desire to find a partner (as she was always very independent and not in desperate need of just any man). She didn't keep the baby because she felt guilty or didn't agree with abortion or had the baby for Steve's sake. She wanted to have it because she realized when it came down to the last minute, she asked "is this my baby?" and realized she wanted to be a mother and with a lazy ovary and being over 30, even though she hadn't planned it, she truly wanted to be a mother.

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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr


Her subsequently falling in love with Steve and marrying him was a mystery to me. To me, they were never a plausible couple.


I've pondered that one a fair bit... Opposites attract? She motivated him, and he grounded her to put it in a nutshell.


But my point is that Miranda evaluated her friends' choices from a rational standpoint, but not her own.


Exactly, a lot easier looking in from the outside...

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

Yes I also hated the part where the girls are quite rightly asking her questions about work, home, money, life etc and carrieshouts finally "I don't know, how can u still have questions when I've answered them all & they were good answers"

Every time I hear this I always think "no u didn't actually give answers, you just said I don't know,"
Prat

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

Carrie was obviously desperate. What did she think was going to happen? Aleksandr didn't offer her any kind of future or give any impression that he was interested in a long term relationship with her. They'd been seeing each other for how long....two, maybe three months? It's not a long enough time to decide to up and leave your country and move abroad to a country where you don't speak the language and don't know anybody. It made no sense. Miranda was right to question her. Carrie gave up her job and independence to be with this guy. It all ended in disaster, just like Miranda knew it would.

"You have bewitched me, body and soul, and I love, I love, I love you." Mr Darcy

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alesander

Well, he was suggesting a long term relationship before the move to France was brought up. When he made it clear that he did not want anymore children and that she should consider how much she waned children as her biological clock was ticking. With that said I believe it was a tad selfish on his part because he already had one. But you are indeed correct that she was desperate as it seems that she actually wanted one or atleast keep the option open, something Alex would not do. She was so afraid of being alone she sacrificed that part of her future. It reminds me of Kim Catrall regretting that she missed her window for having children. She never thought she wouldn't have any but after three marriages and constant work she missed the oppritunity.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alesander


With that said I believe it was a tad selfish on his part because he already had one.


Sure, because it's not like committing to have a child is a life long commitment in any way , not to mention his age. He knew what he wanted and didn't want and was career focused and was honest with Carrie about all of this. Even when she interrupted him when he was working, he was extremely blunt about what would fly and what wouldn't. What i found selfish was how Carrie approached him about it - "If you can't give me a child, what CAN you give me?" UGH.

She changed a lot in the desperation stakes when it came to Alek.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alesander

Right, it's not selfish to not want to have a kid you don't want. The way he said it was basically "I don't want another one, I have grown child and am not in a place to go through that whole process again, but if you really want one, don't waste your time on me."

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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

Well I think they did a good job having Carrie look at her 3 best friends in committed relationships, then see Enid the career woman lonely and desperate and Lexi the fun party girl old, pathetic, and then dead. I guess she expected if she went to Paris she had a better chance of ending up like Charlotte/Miranda/Samantha than independent like lame Enid and Lexi.

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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

Exactly. I always hated that because she (as you said) didn't answer their questions. It was like she wanted them to be belated for her and didn't factor in that they would ask her questions and be curious what her plans were in Paris and then got angry. She wanted her friends to be all "you go girl" and couldn't handle it when they weren't.

"I will not be strong armed by threats against my laundry"

Re: Carrie and Miranda fight over alexsandr

I thought the exchanges were well written because you could totally see the others POV
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