Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence : Almost no animation AT ALL

Almost no animation AT ALL

I liked this movie, although it is repetitive, too self-referenced, senseless philosophy (at the end it has nothing to do with the actual plot, like it did in the first movie) and used too many visual elements from the first film, to a ridiculous degree (for example, the uncalled-for tearing of Kusanagi's arms). But it was OK.
What I didn't like, was its animation (or lack of it). I dare say 70% of the movie is CGI, and the rest of it you can CLEARLY tell was rotoscoped from live actors. So, the only thing that was actually originally animated from ZERO, was the guns and some character and robot close-ups. THAT's what I hated about this movie, because it killed one of the things I love about japanese animation: THE ANIMATION.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

Amen to that

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

thanks ^_^

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

Surely rotoscoping is animation. As is CGI. I thought it was fantastic. It's just different methods of animation.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

don't get me wrong, I like this movie. But it is far from anime standards, very far BELOW.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

You don't know much about Oshii's directing style if you are going to complain about how much he likes stillness. Most of his movies are like that! He is definitely a difficult director to like. He's an acquired taste.

I also read that Oshii deliberately used the 'uncanny valley' theory to make the androids and dolls creepier than they would have been normally. (google it if you don't know what it is!)

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

Who said anything about stillness????? Did you read my reasons for not liking this movie?
FYI, I loved both patlabor movies, and the first GITS.
I think you replied to the wrong thread.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

You didn't like it because it wasn't animated? The making of featurette shows a hell of a lot of people drawing. Maybe they just did it for s hits and giggles, I don't know?

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

most of it was rotoscoped, it's quite obvious. And I didn't said I didn't like it. I said it was OK. But it has MANY flaws.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

What's wrong with rotoscoping?

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

I personally don't like it. Specially because one of the things that always amazed me about anime was the fact japanese animators were able to accomplish unbelievably realistic human movements without the use of rotoscoping. They were artists. I missed that in this movie.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

I have a friend studying a degree in animation, and he'd agree with you, as would most of his peers. Personally I think rotoscoping is fine, and although I see your point, it's still a form of art, it's still fantastic and they still must have had to draw a lot of the perspectives etc, unless they fully clothed someone in the exact same gear and who loks like batou. And I doubt they did that.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

Yep, I agree. I DID like this movie, and somewhat enjoyed it very much. But for me, it is not up to anime standards.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

despite the awful storyline this is the best animated film i have ever seen, absolutly stunning, for the record rotoscoping and the 3d cgi is animation , and it was done to perfection

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

Actually, my professor at the university has done a study on Oshii Mamoru's works and he told the class yesterday that there was absolutely NO rotoscoping done in this movie. I can't remember the technique used, but it isn't rotoscoping.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

Wow wow wow... hold on a sec... rotoscoped?
I need some proof please.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

lol, you need some proof? watch the movie again! you can clearly tell characters are rotoscoped during action scenes

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

Can anybody actually state as fact that this film uses rotoscoping?

I won't believe it until I see/read proof.

Just because some animation might look amazingly realistic (in movement), doesn't mean that no animator could achieve it by hand.


"She wasn't actually my mum either.... She bought me from a man."

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

studio ghibli animated this particular film and if you know anything about animation then you know that studio ghibli are the best animators in the world, they may be scenes where they look as if it were rotoscoped but trust me they didn't, and yes they are that good,

go to http://www.imdb.com/chart/animation

take a look at the top 2 films and i am sure there are lots of other studio ghibli films in the top animation titles

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

Wasn't the animation on this done by Production I.G. like all the other G.I.T.S. animation.

I think the people from Ghibli only worked as producers or something.


You can tell this is done by I.G just by looking at it.

"She wasn't actually my mum either.... She bought me from a man."

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

true Toshio Suzuki from ghibli produced it but he also brought a few ghibli animators along with him i.g did do most of the animation because ghibli dont usually work with computer generated graphics

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

I like the visuals of Ghost 2 (and the C.G fits with the theme of the film), but I prefer them to do it the old-school way, with proper backgrounds.

Let’s all take 5 minutes to go watch the anime section of Kill Bill.


"She wasn't actually my mum either.... She bought me from a man."

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

yeah , i prefer the 'old skool' way too and the anime section of kill bill is outstanding, i just wish there will be a whole film like that in the future, i suppose it might be the next step for tarantino, he is in the low buget movie types at the moment

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

How about an animated Deadly Viper Assassination Squad show?

(Maybe we should take this conversation over to the Kill Bill boards)


"She wasn't actually my mum either.... She bought me from a man."

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

havent seen it, but i have a feeling i will

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

Aw hell, I don't mind if they used rotoscoping. If it made the process easier then why not?

Honestly, I was watching it and couldn't believe how that'd managed to achieve the details and shading so precisely. Now I've heard of this rotoscoping technique (I've truthfully never heard of it until now) and I'm not at all disappointed. Really, stop whining about it.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL


I have no problem with rotoscoping, but this movie did not use any rotoscoping. AT ALL.

The only real enemy to have ever existed, is an eternal one.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

That isn't proof. Speeking as an animator and as a person whos seen a lot of animation I can clearly see the flaws in the animation that prove it's not rotoscoped.

Maybe you should be the one watching it again.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

You don't know what you're talking about. This film is better than 90% of anime.

Orson Welles never made an all-yellow movie.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

i totally agree with you, the movie is nice, but the graphics are a bit odd...as in, sometimes they are mesmerizing , other times bad.

some of the scenes i could live without :

CARS!! they SUK! they look like a bad Need for Speed Carbon rendering ( ok for a game, not for a movie)

most background is ok at best

too much shininess on everything...especially in the super-hacker house, which was quite terrible at times, especially in the foyer.

however, there are some absolutely brilliant scenes,

the police station scene, including the elevator, with that diffuse light, the morgue, which was perfect for an cyborg morgue, it was done just right.

the flight over the weird city, which was again, just right i think...enough depth and weird light and those awsome flocks of birds, but didnt look too fake.

the beginning...what can i say...it was visual orgasmic...it looked high tech but without looking cheap or fake...that was my favourite scene in the movie.

overall, the movie did work for me...(just so u know, i loved Cashern's graphics) some parts looked cheap, and it annoyed me, because they got the rest of it really nice, i don't understand why they screwed up those parts...but again, some ppl might like them

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

I agree, this film definitely has almost no animation, but I would also go as far as to say that what little animation that IS there is just awful, so maybe that's a good thing.
This review matches my sentiments (even if it does needlessly bash anime a bit in the process):
http://www.voont.com/ghost2

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

I loved the CGI, it was beautiful. It was perfect.

_____________________
--- BE TROLL 2!!! ---

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

I agree. The metaphysical and philosophical BS sure did overshadow any story that may have taken place.(I did find most of the story, that was there, interesting) Also, concerning the animation, the first film felt like you were watching something incredible like Akira, where the "traditional animation" feels rich and alive; the CGI, wile nice looking, only feels dead and lifeless: cheap and lazy.

P.S.
I also sat through it with the infamous "closed caption subtitles". Talk about a screw-up.

---

---
http://community.livejournal.com/racebending/104999.html

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

I don't understand how the CGI is not animation. Also, there was no rotoscoping in this film. It just happened to be something Hiroyuki Okiura worked fairly heavily on. He's an amazing effects animator and specializes in life-like animation. He also directed Jin-Roh, which had some incredibly realistic animation.

Re: Almost no animation AT ALL

I'm guessing, even though you are replying to me that you are really replying to someone else; perhaps the OP?


I don't understand how the CGI is not animation.
It's not traditional "analogue animation", like what the first film seemed to be full of. That's probably where the confusion is. Like I said in my post you replied to, "...the first film felt like you were watching something incredible like Akira, where the "traditional animation" feels rich and alive; the CGI, wile nice looking, only feels dead and lifeless: cheap and lazy."


Also, there was no rotoscoping in this film. It just happened to be something Hiroyuki Okiura worked fairly heavily on. He's an amazing effects animator and specializes in life-like animation. He also directed Jin-Roh, which had some incredibly realistic animation.
There are some part that looked totally rotoscoped, wile most others didn't. Jin-Roh, on the other hand, is so obviously filled with that type of animation. If you can prove otherwise I would be pleasantly amazed.


---

---
www.racebending.com
Top