Religion, Faith, and Spirituality : The effects of current American islamophobia

The effects of current American islamophobia

From the Department of Unintended Consequences


The study of Islam in the US: now what?. Anna Piela asks what Trump might mean for scholars of the Islamic faith

In the week following President Trumps executive order banning arrivals from the seven Muslim-majority countries, global audiences have watched heart-breaking scenes at US airports where thousands of people have been denied entry and turned back. Meanwhile, huge crowds across the world have demonstrated their support for Muslims, and public figures and institutions have condemned the bigotry of the new administration.

As a lecturer in religious studies with a particular interest in Islam, I think it is important to reflect on the prospects of Islam-related academic subjects while Trump is in office. So I have asked my American colleagues about their views on this issue. I asked them: g iven the history of deep suspicion of Islam in the US that transformed into hysterical Islamophobia post-9/11, can it really get any worse?

Maria Curtis, associate professor of anthropology and cross cultural studies and program director at the University of Houston-Clear Lake in Texas is guardedly optimistic. As far as I can tell, anytime there seems to be a political shift like this, it only seems to drive up student interest in Islam and Middle East courses," she told me. "I am currently teaching a class called Islam in America, and I have 22 students enrolled. They are very engaged, sincere, and interested students.

"They are hoping to really learn more about Islam's roots in America and they are thrilled to know just how deep those roots are.

This trend is confirmed by Charles Kurzman and Carl W. Ernst from University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill who, in their 2012 paper Islamic Studies in U.S. Universities , noted a nationwide spike of interest in Islam in US academia since 2001. The numbers of dissertations and academic articles about Islam, and faculty members specialising in Islam have grown exponentially, they find. This has been paralleled by an increased and sensationalised media focus on the Muslim community.

As the authors observe, somewhat resignedly: this attention derives in large part from overblown fears of security threats. The field seems to benefit both from Muslims committing atrocities and also from the ignorance and paranoia of non-Muslims.

Islam-related subjects face serious ideological opposition from some evangelical Christian organisations, who oppose the teaching of Islam that does not show it as a terrorist religion. In 2002, an organisation called the Family Policy Network (FPN) filed suit against the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill to prevent an academic text about the Koran from being taught as part of a summer induction programme, citing an alleged breach of the First Amendment.

FPN also argued that the book presented an idealised view of Islam that did not explain the terrorist acts of 9/11, and therefore did not provide a suitable educational resource for American students. FPN lost the case, and several subsequent appeals, but in doing so highlighted a prominent narrative: that teaching Islam is only justifiable as part of the securitisation agenda. This idea unsettlingly dovetails with the Trump administrations course of action.

As Kecia Ali, associate professor of religion at Boston University , says: "The administration's [executive] order has far-reaching, chilling, potentially devastating effects on the study of Islam and Muslims. She is joined by a chorus of voices from the American Academy of Religion and religious and Islamic studies departments across America.  The AARs statement of protest  says Trump's ban "poisons the publics understanding of Islam in particular and religion in general", and is an example of religious bigotry rooted in ignorance and as an attack on the American principle of religious liberty". 

Professor Curtis concludes that although we tend to blame a lot on Trump, Islam "has always challenged American pluralism".  

"It has been there as a benchmark of sorts, asking the question what are the limits of American pluralism?. And we find all sorts of examples and responses, some very forward thinking and tolerant, and some quite ready to cast all Mohammedans into the fire along with witches, criminals, pagans, and anyone else outside the realm of evangelical Protestants. https://www.timeshighereducation.com/blog/study-islam-us-now-what



you're a spunky wanker cockwombler kurt2000

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

Why are you taking up for Muslims? They believe in God, in case no one ever told you. Why on earth would a thing like you defend people who believe in a superior being without any objective scientific evidence?







"I hear no voice. The dead cannot speak."

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

Cuz brown skin.

These moral mountaineers are nowhere to be seen when bodies line the pavements of Europe.

'And imdb does nothing about it, because they're gay too'

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


Why are you taking up for Muslims? They believe in God, in case no one ever told you. Why on earth would a thing like you defend people who believe in a superior being without any objective scientific evidence?

If that is your idea of valid reasoning, then it begs the question:

Why aren't you taking up for Muslims?

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

I've been taking up for them for many years, as best I can.

Anything else?







"I hear no voice. The dead cannot speak."

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


I've been taking up for them for many years, as best I can.

Anything else?

I'm probably confusing you with Closet Erjen again. I tend to do that, sorry.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


I'm probably confusing you with Closet Erjen again. I tend to do that, sorry.


No problem.





"I hear no voice. The dead cannot speak."

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


Why are you taking up for Muslims?


The article was about trends in American Muslim scholarship, which I thought interesting. Are you saying that Muslims and the study of Islam is beyond the pale?


They believe in God, in case no one ever told you.


I think I have known that for some time, but thanks for the reminder.


Why on earth would a thing like you defend people who believe in a superior being without any objective scientific evidence?


First of all, you really need to read the article and what it is about (which is not a 'defence of Islamic peoples'); second, even if this was the case I would stand up for the rights of anyone to believe in exactly that which they want, free from discrimination, bigotry and hate. To an atheist all supernatural Causes are equal and there is no difference between this and that one. I hope that helps. When the article mentions the 'limits of American pluralism' such a response as yours makes the limited even more worthy of notice.



you're a spunky wanker cockwombler kurt2000

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


I hope that helps.


No, not really.





"I hear no voice. The dead cannot speak."

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

It appears that you are therefore beyond help.



you're a spunky wanker cockwombler kurt2000

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


It appears that you are therefore beyond help.


Whereas Muslims can be won over to your side?

I'd like to see you go to Saudi Arabia and make one of your tasteless cracks about their "invisible sky god." The results should be quite comical.









"I hear no voice. The dead cannot speak."

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


Whereas Muslims can be won over to your side?


And what 'side' is that Erjen?


I'd like to see you go to Saudi Arabia and make one of your tasteless cracks about their "invisible sky god." The results should be quite comical.


The intolerance of religion is not something I need reminding of, but thanks again. However this still does not invalidate a consideration of current Muslim scholarship, which you appear to find so damning but which I find so interesting.



you're a spunky wanker cockwombler kurt2000

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


And what 'side' is that Erjen?


The blaspheming progressive evolutionary humanist side, FF. Duh!








"I hear no voice. The dead cannot speak."

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


The blaspheming progressive evolutionary humanist side


Such stereotyping reveals more of your side than it will ever mine, my friend. And I am still interested why a simple account of modern American Islamic scholarship would excite you so much, or why you impute motives for posting it which don't exist. Clearly something makes you uncomfortable. Is it the contemplation of American pluralism at all?



you're a spunky wanker cockwombler kurt2000

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


my friend.


I'm not your friend.



Clearly


When you start using "clearly" it means that you've shot your wad, but remember that you've got about ten more days to pull another lame propaganda thread like this before IMDb shuts off the respirator. Maybe even two of them.




"I hear no voice. The dead cannot speak."

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia




my friend.




I'm not your friend.


You are not my enemy, Erjen.


When you start using "clearly" it means that you've shot your wad, but remember that you've got about ten more days to pull another lame propaganda thread like this before IMDb shuts off the respirator. Maybe even two of them.


Thank you for your detailed and impersonal rebuttal.



you're a spunky wanker cockwombler kurt2000

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

It is kind of funny how current affairs such as this elicit gushing testimonials in favour of conservative Islam and the ways in which it enriches society, from those who dub themselves rational-minded critics of religion.

It could be a balloon. It could be Franky. It could be very fresh and clean. It could be those ways.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

It is bizarre that even scholarly pursuits need to be defended, but that is the current wigged-out Cro-Magnon climate.


https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com:443/data.filmboards/images/upload/Xkr4B9Y.jpg

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


It is bizarre that even scholarly pursuits need to be defended


If you're referring to how Islamic countries clamp down on secular thought and then demand that all the more liberal nations do the same (under the banner of 'human rights', no less), then I agree.

http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2014/04/saudi-arabia-calls-for-criticism-of-religion-to-be-outlawed-in-norway

It could be a balloon. It could be Franky. It could be very fresh and clean. It could be those ways.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

Theocratic countries of all stripes suck more balls than closeted politicians. But you guys that want to emulate that here are even more of a



It is bizarre that even scholarly pursuits need to be defended, but that is the current wigged-out Cro-Magnon climate.

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com:443/data.filmboards/images/upload/Xkr4B9Y.jpg

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

Is there more than one 'stripe' of theocratic country, though?

And it's interesting that you now think that I want a Christian theocracy, when you've stated that I argue against free will because I want to kill off the influence of religion (which is more or less true).

It could be a balloon. It could be Franky. It could be very fresh and clean. It could be those ways.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

I didn't say you wanted a Christian theocracy, swufts.




Theocratic countries of all stripes suck more balls than closeted politicians. But you guys that want to emulate that here are even more of a


It is bizarre that even scholarly pursuits need to be defended, but that is the current wigged-out Cro-Magnon climate.

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com:443/data.filmboards/images/upload/Xkr4B9Y.jpg

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

So I don't want an Islamic theocracy, I don't want a Christian theocracy. What other type of theocracy is there that I appear to be yearning for?

It could be a balloon. It could be Franky. It could be very fresh and clean. It could be those ways.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

I didn't say you were yearning for a theocracy, swufts.




Theocratic countries of all stripes suck more balls than closeted politicians. But you guys that want to emulate that here are even more of a


It is bizarre that even scholarly pursuits need to be defended, but that is the current wigged-out Cro-Magnon climate.

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com:443/data.filmboards/images/upload/Xkr4B9Y.jpg

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


Are you trying to argue against a dictionary and win?


Islamophobia is a word people recognise and understand, so deal with it. Anyway I've also seen words like Christophobia and Christianophobia around, even if they aren't listed in a dictionary. New words evolve all the time, so you just have to deal with that as well.


My stance is that 'Islamophobia' is a loaded term, and if it as broadly-encompassing as the definition that Film Flaneur posted, then it is a pointless term. Because even most Christians are coming to accept the fact that people are allowed to have a disparaging opinion of their religion without being ostracised and accused of bigotry.

I think that the standard should be the same for criticism of Christianity and criticism of Islam. If calling Christian beliefs and rituals silly is normalised, then doing the same for Islamic beliefs should be met with a similar lack of outrage.


For the same reason that hatred towards Christians is conflated with hatred towards Christianity, or hatred towards gay people conflated with hatred towards homosexuality. The haters believe people have a choice whether to be Muslim / Christian / gay / whatever and hate them for making the 'wrong' choice.



Fair enough, but the term 'Islamophobia' should not be synonymous with racism towards brown skinned people who happen to practice the religion of Islam. And people tend to acknowledge the distinction between dislike of the religion and dislike of the person, if it applies to white Christians. You don't often hear of white liberal people calling for a boycott of comedians who make jokes about Christianity; whereas a comedian making jokes about Islam would be considered beyond the paler.

Conversely, criticism of Islam tends to provoke knee-jerk outrage and accusations of racism.

It could be a balloon. It could be Franky. It could be very fresh and clean. It could be those ways.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


My stance is that 'Islamophobia' is a loaded term, and if it as broadly-encompassing as the definition that Film Flaneur posted, then it is a pointless term


From which, presumably then we take the message that if Islamophobia is not broadly-encompassing as the standard dictionary definition then it is not pointless. One hardly needs to make the point that terms are only loaded to those who insist on looking for guns in every word.


most Christians are coming to accept the fact that people are allowed to have a disparaging opinion of their religion without being ostracised and accused of bigotry


Yes, isn't freedom of speech wonderful?


the standard should be the same for criticism of Christianity and criticism of Islam


I can't speak everywhere but in the UK there is equality under the law and all religions are protected against hate speech and intimidation just the same. It may be that you have perceptual bias, and see a imbalance where there is none.


'Islamophobia' should not be synonymous with racism towards brown skinned people who happen to practice the religion of Islam.


It is not seen as synonymous but unfortunately (non-Muslim) racists and bigots tend to always have Islamophobia.


You don't often hear of white liberal people calling for a boycott of comedians who make jokes about Christianity; whereas a comedian making jokes about Islam would be considered beyond the paler.


A fair point, but this might just be that minorities, religious or otherwise and their support/protection is something the law in western liberal democracies rightly pays special note of, and this 'tone' is carried over into more general considerations of public discourse. But even so here you seem to be annoyed at the mere thought of politeness and consideration where, even if perceived as one-sided, it is not necessarily a bad thing of itself. Having said that, though, the general tone towards Islam in western countries (witness the various howls on this board) has undeniably become more hostile, with less and less appearing 'beyond the pale', right up to the current White House thinking, a trend which you seem to overlook by suggesting double standards.


you're a spunky wanker cockwombler kurt2000

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


From which we take the message that if Islamophobia is not broadly-encompassing as the standard dictionary definition then it is not pointless. One hardly needs to make the pointed that terms are only loaded to those who insist on looking for guns.



If it were narrowed down to dislike of Islam, then that could still be countered with the fact that there are rational reasons to dislike Islamic theology. Just as you and I would both agree that there are reasons to dislike Christian theology. But disliking Christian theology is not as potent a political football as disliking Islamic theology, because dislike of Islamic theology is considered synonymous with dislike of people with brown skin.



Yes, isn't freedom of speech wonderful?


It is. Just a shame that it's only deemed permissible to 'freely' speak out against white heterosexual people and the ideas that such people hold. And why most atheists/anti-theists such as myself would really hate to live in Saudi Arabia, or basically any other Muslim majority country.




I can't speak everywhere but in the UK there is equality under the law and all religions are protected against hate speech and intimidation just the same. It may be that you have perceptual bias, and see a imbalance where there is none.



Hmmmnot really. There's a lot of hand-wringing going on any time there is any public criticism of Islam. Conversely, criticism and mockery of Christianity is very mainstream in most Christian-majority nations. Because the majority of Christians are white, they are deemed to be able to 'take it on the chin', and fortunately, most of them can do.


It is not seen as synonymous but unfortunately (non-Muslim) racists and bigots tend to always have Islamophobia.


But do you think that Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Bill Maher are all racists who hate people based on the colour of their skin? In the clip that Cody posted, Sam Harris and Bill Maher were accused of racism by Ben Stiller because they criticised Islamic theology. It's a common knee-jerk reaction.


A fair point, but this might just be that minorities, and their support/protection is something the law in western liberal democracies pays special note of, and this tone is carried over into more general considerations. But even so here you seem to be annoyed at the mere thought of politeness and consideration where, even if perceived as one-sided, it is not necessarily a bad thing of itself. Having said that, though, the general tone towards Islam in western countries (witness the various howls on this board) has undeniably become more hostile, with less and less 'beyond the pale', right up to the current White House thinking - which you seem to overlook.


I despise political correctness, because it infantilises the people that it exists to protect.

And you're right about the tone towards Islam becoming increasingly hostile. That is NOT being helped by people trying to shut down debate on the subject by tarring all those with critical views on Islam as racists.

Donald Trump's ascendency is endemic of the fact that people are fed up of being told that Muslims (as one example) are part of a protected class that must never be criticised.

It could be a balloon. It could be Franky. It could be very fresh and clean. It could be those ways.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

Ben Affleck, no?

'And imdb does nothing about it, because they're gay too'

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


If it were narrowed down to dislike of Islam, then that could still be countered with the fact that there are rational reasons to dislike Islamic theology


Indeed, but that does not effect the meaning of the term.


But disliking Christian theology is not as potent a political football as disliking Islamic theology, because dislike of Islamic theology is considered synonymous with dislike of people with brown skin.


This is also true, but I have already mentioned the fact that those who, typically dislike Islam are also likely to be racially conservative as well as culturally. I don't know whether those who dislike Christianity in Iraq, say, are also related to those racially conservatives but Anti-Americanism is certainly common.


Just a shame that it's only deemed permissible to 'freely' speak out against white heterosexual people and the ideas that such people hold.


But this is not true; as already pointed out Islamophobia is clearly on the rise in the West, for various reasons.


And why most atheists/anti-theists such as myself would really hate to live in Saudi Arabia, or basically any other Muslim majority country.


Indeed; but there are plenty of minorities of all sorts who would not like to live in any strict theocracy. I doubt whether as an atheist I would have been comfortable in Salem, Mass. during the late 17th century for instance. I still doubt too, if American, I would be voted for as a candidate for high office if my atheism was known.


There's a lot of hand-wringing going on any time there is any public criticism of Islam. Conversely, criticism and mockery of Christianity is very mainstream in most Christian-majority nations


I can only refer you to the observation made about the current trend of Islamophobia in the West, while it can be argued that criticism and mockery of Christianity is only 'mainstream' since Christianity itself is the established religion in almost all the countries one might have in mind. Having said that of course, there is a healthy tradition of anti-clericism and religious satire in the main Western democracies which, one imagines, is simply never seen in the more proscriptive Islamic states.


But do you think that Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Bill Maher are all racists who hate people based on the colour of their skin? In the clip that Cody posted, Sam Harris and Bill Maher were accused of racism by Ben Stiller because they criticised Islamic theology. It's a common knee-jerk reaction.


Ben Stiller is entitled to his opinion. But the views of a Hollywood actor are no less likely to be right or wrong than any one else. The conflation of race and religion, from whatever quarter IMHO just confuses things - although, as said, already the two are often found connected within extremist thought.


I despise political correctness, because it infantilises the people that it exists to protect


It seems to me that political correctness is very often just an excessive, or needless, amount of politeness. It may be foolish or irritating. But there are worse things to be worried about.


And you're right about the tone towards Islam becoming increasingly hostile. That is NOT being helped by people trying to shut down debate on the subject by tarring all those with critical views on Islam as racists.


That does not affect the observation, which I am pleased you agree with. And I have already mentioned the deleterious or confusing effects of combining racism with anti-religious sentiment to clear public debate.


Donald Trump's ascendency is endemic of the fact that people are fed up of being told that Muslims (as one example) are part of a protected class that must never be criticised.


You are entitled your opinion. I am more inclined to see his rise as the epitome of a growing popularism in politics more generally, with an increased mistrust of the existing political and media classes by the predominantly white working and lower middle classes. I don't see it as a protest vote over political correctness towards another religion although the 'other' can always be seen as scapegoats for perceived unfairnesses and failures in a wider society.



you're a spunky wanker cockwombler kurt2000

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


This is also true, but I have already mentioned the fact that those who, typically dislike Islam are also likely to be racially conservative as well as culturally. I don't know whether those who dislike Christianity in Iraq, say, are also related to those racially conservatives but Anti-Americanism is certainly common.


Well that doesn't include me. Anyone who values liberalism should not be keen on Islam. Usually the reasons for defending it are based on the ethnicity of Muslims. Scientology doesn't have a lot of apologists amongst white, well meaning liberals, but yet there have been popular movies made to demonise Scientologists. But they're white, so I suppose 'not all Scientologists' doesn't apply.



But this is not true; as already pointed out Islamophobia is clearly on the rise in the West, for various reasons.



It is, but they are trying to make it a criminal offence to criticise Islam in numerous western European nations, Canada, Australia, etc. Of course they're going to point out the behaviour of right-wing racist groups, remind people what happened in 1930s Germany, and use a slippery slope argument in order to advance that agenda.



Indeed; but there are plenty of minorities of all sorts who would not like to live in any strict theocracy. I doubt whether as an atheist I would have been comfortable in Salem, Mass. during the late 17th century for instance. I still doubt too, if American, I would be voted for as a candidate for high office if my atheism was known.


As you've shown, you do have to go quite far back to find an analogous situation in a Christian majority nation to what is routine in Islamic majority nations.


Having said that of course, there is a healthy tradition of anti-clericism and religious satire in the main Western democracies which, one imagines, is simply never seen in the more proscriptive Islamic states.



Certainly not, if by 'the more proscriptive Islamic states', you mean 'all of them'. Even Singapore has strict blasphemy laws. There was a famous case involving a YouTuber from Singapore who was prosecuted for blasphemy.



It seems to me that political correctness is very often just an excessive, or needless, amount of politeness. It may be foolish or irritating. But there are worse things to be worried about.


There are worse things to be worried about, but in western Europe, political correctness has been brought into law, and there is a sense of mission creep about the advance of these laws which curb freedom of speech.



You are entitled your opinion. I am more inclined to see his rise as the epitome of a growing popularism in politics more generally, with an increased mistrust of the existing political and media classes by the predominantly white working and lower middle classes. I don't see it as a protest vote over political correctness towards another religion although the 'other' can always be seen as scapegoats for perceived unfairnesses and failures in a wider society.



It's largely because politicians are putting the identity politics at the forefront to distract everyone, whilst (on both sides) they work to enrich their corporate donors and betray the economic interests of the people who voted for them.

It could be a balloon. It could be Franky. It could be very fresh and clean. It could be those ways.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

"Dislike of" and "not keen on" is not the same thing as selectively vilifying people who subscribe to one inane and immoral hoodoo. Or systematically lying to promote one over the other.


http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000108/thread/265883167?d=265900303#265900303

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


global audiences have watched heart-breaking scenes at US airports where thousands of people have been denied entry and turned back



Meanwhile, huge crowds across the world have demonstrated their support for Muslims
I think she misspelled "cowards".


and public figures and institutions have condemned the bigotry of the new administration
It's now considered bigotry to take precautionary measures in protecting your countries citizens?


Islamophobia
WTF does this even mean??

Whoever wrote that disingenuous POS article should be ashamed themselves.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia




Islamophobia


WTF does this even mean??


The fear, prejudice, hatred or dislike directed against Islam or Muslims, or towards Islamic politics or culture.

I hope that helps.




you're a spunky wanker cockwombler kurt2000

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia



The fear, prejudice, hatred or dislike directed against Islam or Muslims, or towards Islamic politics or culture.


Then whither the term 'Christophobia' (or similar) to denote dislike of Christianity, or towards Christian politics or culture? Whither the outrage towards atheists who criticise Christianity regularly?

And why would hatred towards Muslims be conflated with hatred towards the religion of Islam?

It could be a balloon. It could be Franky. It could be very fresh and clean. It could be those ways.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


Then whither the term 'Christophobia' (or similar) or towards Christian politics or culture?


There is no equivalent, neat single word, although 'anti-Christian' is used. You can, of course, choose to see this as conspiracy and discrimination by etymologists if you chose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Christian_sentiment

while 'anti-theist' is sometimes used, as if it means the same.


Whither the outrage towards atheists who criticise Christianity regularly?


You mean the current vogue for the (often intended as insulting) 'militant atheism'?


And why would hatred towards Muslims be conflated with hatred towards the religion of Islam


This, I am sure, one really can work out on one's own.



you're a spunky wanker cockwombler kurt2000

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia



There is no equivalent, neat single word, although 'anti-Christian' is used. You can, of course, choose to see this as conspiracy and discrimination by etymologists if you chose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Christian_sentiment

while 'anti-theist' is sometimes used, as if it means the same.


The reason that there's no equivalent word is ostensibly because there is a perceived need to protect the beliefs and sensibilities of an ethnic minority. I don't see that as being a 'conspiracy', I just see that as being evidence that society is overcompensating for the legacy of racism in white majority nations.


You mean the current vogue for the (often intended as insulting) 'militant atheism'?


Hardly packs the same political punch as 'Islamophobic' though, does it? We aren't seeing petitions being signed by millions of people to prevent atheist comedians who make fun of Christianity in their comedy routines from entering the country. But I would wager good money that if even one of those jokes in their entire career had honed in on Islam, there would be a lot of 'atheists' who would be in favour of banning that comedian from ever entering the country on the basis of 'Islamophobia'.

It could be a balloon. It could be Franky. It could be very fresh and clean. It could be those ways.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


The reason that there's no equivalent word is ostensibly because there is a perceived need to protect the beliefs and sensibilities of an ethnic minority


Well then, while neither of us see any emtymological conspiracy, can we take it from this that you do not see a need to protect minorities? I doubt it. We have, after all, seen what has happened before such cares and duties were enshrined in law, so I would be surprised if you do not agree that protections ought to be in place. But of course there is a difference in being free from intimidation and hate, and having views and beliefs necessarily having to remain free from ridicule or humour in case ones 'feel insulted' for which there is no human right. There is also a difference between something that we choose (like beliefs) and those which we cannot help (such as sexuality and race) when considering the threshold of prejudice where it meets that of the demands of free speech.


evidence that society is overcompensating for the legacy of racism in white majority nations.


I would be surprised if you real feel that that racism is now just a 'legacy' issue being 'over-compensated for' when in fact the evidence is that, in many countries it is alive and well - and increasing. But of course, strictly speaking Islam is not a race; it is just that Islamophobia tends to be the stamping ground of racists who are, typically just as culturally conservative and proscriptive as they are racially.


We aren't seeing petitions being signed by millions of people to prevent atheist comedians who make fun of Christianity in their comedy routines from entering the country.


Indeed, an observation which would seem to reinforce the impression that the bans that have been recently instituted are specifically Islamophobic.



you're a spunky wanker cockwombler kurt2000

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia



Well then, while neither of us see any emtymological conspiracy, can we take it from this that you do not see a need to protect minorities? I doubt it. We have, after all, seen what has happened before such cares and duties were enshrined in law, so I would be surprised if you do not agree that protections ought to be in place. But of course there is a difference in being free from intimidation and hate, and having views and beliefs necessarily having to remain free from ridicule or humour in case ones 'feel insulted' for which there is no human right. There is also a difference between something that we choose (like beliefs) and those which we cannot help (such as sexuality and race) when considering the threshold of prejudice where it meets that of the demands of free speech.


I'm not in favour of hate speech laws, but nor am I in favour of lawlessness. Therefore, a Muslim should be entitled to equal protection as a white atheist, but no additional protection. Does that answer your question? And I say the same thing as an atheist homosexual. I don't merit any additional protection on the basis of my sexuality or my lack of religious beliefs. The erstwhile Labour leader Ed Miliband did promise to implement an Islamophobia law were he to be elected(whilst he didn't specify exactly what would be covered, I believe that this would have made it illegal to ridicule Islam).


I would be surprised if you real feel that that racism is now just a 'legacy' issue being 'over-compensated for' when in fact the evidence is that, in many countries it is alive and well - and increasing. But of course, strictly speaking Islam is not a race; it is just that Islamophobia tends to be the stamping ground of racists who are, typically just as culturally conservative and proscriptive as they are racially.


I would say that racism is now a fringe issue which keeps being dragged into the forefront, and which is distracting people from more pressing concerns. It's one of those matters where people can say 'I don't believe that everyone should be legally entitled to healthcare, but today I scolded someone over the Internet for a mildly racist remark. Aren't I a swell guy?'.

I despise Islam, but I also dislike Christianity and conservative politics in general. I think that society needs to stop treating brown skinned people as if they are extremely fragile and need to be nannied.



Indeed, an observation which would seem to reinforce the impression that the bans that have been recently instituted are specifically Islamophobic.


I don't necessarily agree with Donald Trump's travel ban on people from certain countries. However, nobody here in Britain seems to give much of a sh!t about countries such as Saudi Arabia restricting citizenship to Muslims only. In fact, Saudi Arabia can do more or less whatever it likes without any British regressive liberals complaining about it or objecting to having their officials visiting Britain.

Also, on what grounds would a ban on atheists be implemented? Atheists tend to be the most productive citizens, and the least religious countries tend to have the highest quality of life and the most progressive social and economic policies. The Muslim ban was based on a misguided fear of terrorism.

It could be a balloon. It could be Franky. It could be very fresh and clean. It could be those ways.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

You really are wasting your time arguing with people like Filmflan on this topic. Guy has been so conditioned by the system, it becomes pointless trying to reason with him.

As far as he's concerned criticising Islam=racism and bigotry. And that's that.

The irony is Muslims are the one's shooting and blowing people up in every part of the world, executing apostates and homosexuals, working to enforce their laws and practices on secular societies. Yet apparently they're the persecuted/oppressed ones we need to protect.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

Guys like you are still far worse here than any Muslims psychos.


Science proven wrong yet AGAIN.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


You really are wasting your time arguing with people like Filmflan on this topic. Guy has been so conditioned by the system, it becomes pointless trying to reason with him.


I am grateful to have one who thinks without a system to rely on.


As far as he's concerned criticising Islam=racism and bigotry. And that's that.


An odd thing to say since on this thread I have been at pains to point up the necessity of keeping the two separate.


The irony is Muslims are the one's [sic] shooting and blowing people up in every part of the world, executing apostates and homosexuals, working to enforce their laws and practices on secular societies. Yet apparently they're the persecuted/oppressed ones we need to protect


Thank you for not stereotyping entire religions and people in one bitter statement.



you're a spunky wanker cockwombler kurt2000

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


Thank you for not stereotyping entire religions and people in one bitter statement
https://media1.giphy.com/media/Rhhr8D5mKSX7O/giphy.gif

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

GIFs are just cartoons for those with small attention spans. But thanks anyway.

I am God's #1 Spokesman on IMDB Navaros


Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


However, nobody here in Britain seems to give much of a sh!t about countries such as Saudi Arabia restricting citizenship to Muslims only. In fact, Saudi Arabia can do more or less whatever it likes without any British regressive liberals complaining about it or objecting to having their officials visiting Britain.

So why does the Amnesty International UK have a section of their website dedicated to how awful Saudi Arabia is: https://www.amnesty.org.uk/issues/Saudi-Arabia

Of course, the president of the United States has more international clout than nearly anyone else on the planet so he's getting a lot more attention these days, not just from liberals but from the media reporting on protests etc. But don't act as if liberals don't despise Saudi Arabia.


The Muslim ban was based on a misguided fear of terrorism.

Not really though that's what it's being sold as. If it were about stopping terrorists, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Afghanistan are far more of a threat than the 7 banned countries. The banned countries are Iran and its major allies in the region who are more hostile to US business interests than the other Middle Eastern countries.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


The banned countries are Iran and its major allies in the region who are more hostile to US business interests than the other Middle Eastern countries
6 of the seven countries also have a ban on Israelis. Where's the liberal uproar and protests over that?

Also:


Why has Trump banned immigration from Syria and Iraq?

The bloody war in Syria has allowed ISIS to seize large swathes of land stretching from central Iraq to northern Syria. On the campaign trail, Mr Trump vowed to bomb the hell out of ISIS and promised to end radical Islamic terrorism around the world. Brutal fighting and civil war have ripped Syria apart over the past six years, forcing millions of refugees to flee the country.
More than 400,000 people had been killed during the conflict by April 2016, according to an estimate cited by a UN envoy.
Iraq remains engulfed in political instability as it struggles to recover from the US invasion to topple Saddam Hussein in 2003.

Why has Trump banned immigration from Iran?

Iran has long been hostile towards the US and immediately banned American travellers in response to Mr Trumps travel ban.
During Mr Obamas time in office, relations between the countries thawed and sanctions were lifted following a nuclear deal with Iran.
But Mr Trump has branded it "the worst deal ever negotiated" and told Americans that he will either rip the deal up or seek a better agreement.

Why has Trump banned immigration from Yemen?

Mr Trumps first counterterrorism operation was a firefight with Qaeda militants in central Yemen. The US is engaged in a shadow war against Al Qaedas Yemen affiliate. Yemen's civil war broke out more than two years ago between those allied to the Houthi rebel movement and forces loyal to President Abdrabbuh Mansour Hadi.

Why has Trump banned immigration from Somalia?

Islamist militant group al-Shabab is battling Somalias fragile UN-backed Government and has carried out terror attacks in Kenya
The Somali terrorist organisation wants to turn war-torn Somalia into a fundamentalist Islamic state.


Why has Trump banned immigration from Libya?

ISIS terrorists have managed to gain a foothold in the Libya and even founded a stronghold in the coastal city of Sirte - Gaddafi's hometown. The Islamic militants were expelled from Sirte in December but the US is still waging war against ISIS terrorists in Libya.


Why has Trump banned immigration from Sudan?

Sudan has long been ravaged by conflict with two rounds of north-south civil wars killing an estimated 1.5 million people. Ongoing conflict in the western region of Darfur has killed more than 200,000 and forced millions more to flee their homes.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/761087/Donald-Trump-immigration-ban-what-seven-countries-reasons-US-banning-Muslim-travellers/amp?client=safari

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia


6 of the seven countries also have a ban on Israelis. Where's the liberal uproar and protests over that?

You can find a lot of criticism of Iran and the rest on sites like Amnesty International. Assad was heavily criticised by liberals long before the whole ISIS thing erupted.

But you are right in saying there hasn't been anything like the anger against Trump. Perhaps this is partially due to the idea of the US as the leader of the free world - people expect a better example of it and this is quite a sudden policy change while the Middle Eastern countries have had poor human rights laws for a while now. Also like it or not, the POTUS is largely seen to be the figurehead of the west - and people want to openly distance themselves from his views. Perhaps Trump and the US are getting more of the share of criticism at present than they should, but it's a complete exaggeration to say liberals do not criticise or protest against Muslim countries/regimes.

As for that quote form the Express, do you think the US doesn't have just as much to fear from say Pakistan? So why isn't it being banned alongside these 7? And are travel bans effective at stopping terrorist attacks anyway?

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

"could be extended to"


Science proven wrong yet AGAIN.

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

Ok.

But do you think travel bans will be effective? Even if they are, do you think they could have negative side effects that might outweigh their benefits?

Re: The effects of current American islamophobia

We won't know until we try it and find out.

If America bans a country with a severe Ebola outbreak. Do you think the ban would be more beneficial or negative for the country on the whole?



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