Brotherhood of the Wolf : Did these things damage this movie for anyone else? (One Spoiler)

Did these things damage this movie for anyone else? (One Spoiler)

1. The fight scenes seemed very choreographed. Like, Hollywood-style "we'd better find some way to get the non-analysts in the audience excited" choreographed. To me, this made it feel like we were taking a break from the movie to watch someone play Mortal Kombat. If you're wondering what I mean by "seemed very choreographed," I think Valhalla Rising's fight scenes did not look choreographed. Maybe a better way to put it is that Brotherhood's fighting seemed more like dancing (taking a break), while Valhalla's seemed more like visceral brutality (part of the movie).

2. This movie ended with a "final boss battle." In other words, the climax is a gloriously expensive-looking and professionally choreographed fight between the movie's key hero and the movie's feature villain. Like the "choreographed fight scenes" I mentioned above, this element seems like a really contrived break from the movie. It feels like something that was added to give us a reason to like the movie if we managed to sleep through all of the plot development. Another notable movie with one of these is Predators. For some reason I'm thinking this is done really often, but I can't think of more right now.

I'm interested if someone out there feels differently about any of this.

Or, if anyone can think of more movies with final boss battles in them.

Re: Did these things damage this movie for anyone else? (One Spoiler)

I can certainly understand your point. I did not much mind the first fight in the rain. It was definitely highly stylized, but I found it enjoyable. Maybe it was the rain and the absurdity of men dressed as women, but I liked it. There is a scene on the DVD that shows this initial fight was supposed to go much longer, and I am glad they did not include that one. It did drag on

Much like the final fight scene, which I did not much care for. I found that one to be very much overdone. It made me feel impatient for an end and resolution.

The fight scenes in the middle with Mani and the gypsies somewhat suffered from this, in my view. I found them reasonably entertaining, but again, perhaps a bit too long.

It almost seems as though they wanted to show off the prowess of their actors as well as the ability of the fight choreographer as well as add a visceral edge to the film. Personally, I feel none of that was necessary for the story. It was simply an effort in pumping up the "cool" factor. I can understand the desire for such to make a movie marketable in a particular way, and again, I enjoyed some of the fight scenes others, not so much.

Re: Did these things damage this movie for anyone else? (One Spoiler)

One of the things I enjoyed the most about this movie was that it was not the dreaded "cross-genre movie that does justice to either" but it was actually about 5 different genres, and I don't even know where they would put this movie in a rental place. I loved the intellectual part of this movie, the dialog, the mystery. But I have many varied tastes in movies and I found the fights to be quite enjoyable. More unexpected and even kind of surprising that they occurred in such a movie. A pleasant surprise, in my opinion.
Then again, I have an enormous suspension of disbelief for movies. I can buy just about anything (outside of the horrendously absurd..) and just go along with most things that happen in a movie Im enjoying.

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Re: Did these things damage this movie for anyone else? (One Spoiler)

A friend of mine once told me, any time you see a great warrior fallowing under some other guy, that guy is likely an even greater warrior.
I loved how that came out at the end.
(by the way, do not in any way expect Valhalla Rising to be anything like Brotherhood.)

Re: Did these things damage this movie for anyone else? (One Spoiler)

I'm sorry, but I don't recall there being an "intellectual part of this movie."

Re: Did these things damage this movie for anyone else? (One Spoiler)

Maybe men dressed as women seem absurd to us in this day and age, but that was one of the things that the film got right. As most of the victims of the beast were apparently women and children, the soldiers sent to look for the beast actually dressed up as women in the hope that the beast would then attack them, so that they could then kill or capture it. Though, apparently, that did not work like they hoped.

And did these things damage the movie for me? No, not enough for me to dislike the movie, which is actually one of my favorite movies of all time.

Re: Did these things damage this movie for anyone else? (One Spoiler)

Good questions!

1. I disagree, while the fight scenes look over-the-top, it fits very nicely in the overall over-the-top-ness of the film.

2. Yes, that look contrieved. The hunt and the assault on the hunting lodge are much better fits. The final fight is very hollywoody.

Re: Did these things damage this movie for anyone else? (One Spoiler)

Every movie that includes fighting as a major element has a "final boss battle". From old school Hong Kong kung fu to The Matrix.


"I want a frisbee made of Mexico."

Re: Did these things damage this movie for anyone else? (One Spoiler)

I understand what you mean. However I liked thee movie as a whole. Yes-the final Boss Battle was over the top for me as well. Nonetheless I enjoyed it as a fictitious/fantasy movie rooted on actual events.

Another movie that definitely had a Final Boss Battle that seemed out of place with the rest of the movie was (to me at least) Dark City. Love the movie, but the final confrontation turned into a video game final battle.

Re: Did these things damage this movie for anyone else? (One Spoiler)


Um, yea, final boss battles, they usually call that action movies welcome to the wondrous world of movies.
_____________________
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Shut the *beep* up
-Mutant Chronicles-

Re: Did these things damage this movie for anyone else? (One Spoiler)

As far as choreographed, really it didn't bother me. I do understand what you mean by that statement. I enjoyed the Rock in Walking Tall and in the commentary they mention they wanted to fights to look realistic, no not alot of fancy moves. But that's what happens in martial arts movies. It's not realistic but the fighters are usually trained, and part of the action is that they are trained and are doing acrobatic or difficult movements. Like a brutal ballet. With a good action movie it shouldn't be to notible, but when I was a kid I saw stuff from the 70s that looks like a badly rehearsed martial arts demonstation by a local school at the mall.

So, yeah, fight scenes not realistic but not totally impossible, like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon where they're dancing on trees.

As far as final boss scenees, well, that's almost every action picture. Or close to it. Something like Saving Private Ryan doesn't have a final boss. No Hitler in a 30 foot tall tripod looking for Tom Hanks who found a rocket launching shotgun type stuff. So I think war movies are where there are less boss fights.

In most action or martial fights there is usually a main villain who's part of the cast. Again, SPR was set in WW2 but Hitler had no onscreen appearance. If Jeff Kevlar just got back into town and finds out his kid brother is on smack because Jeff's high school rival Reggie Sneer is top crime boss, at some point Kevlar is kicking down Sneer's office door and 'It Gets Personal! '.

Even most horror movies end in climax with the monster getting destroyed for good, destroyed but not really and it's claw reaching up, or killing everyone. The few that don't have groups of monsters like zombie movies. No top zombie, but in Halloween there will be a final showdown with Michael.

Re: Did these things damage this movie for anyone else? (One Spoiler)

The mystery they shroud the villain in lends well to the story. Most action films, the hero and the villain have very little screen time together where they're not fighting, maybe one or two hostile/barely civil confrontations. Here, our two primaries even seem to be developing a friendship.
Fronsac's attack on the hunting lodge is one of my favorite action sequences, and I'm glad the initial fight in the rain was edited to keephim out, so that when you do see him fight, you kind of get the feeling 'he doesn't fight because if he's after you, he is not trying to jump around and spar a bit. He will kill you and move on to the next victim.' Does anyone know what fighting style he is employing?


"is this dangerous?"
"not clinically."

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Re: Did these things damage this movie for anyone else? (One Spoiler)

Bottom line, the choreography is just not that good; there are too many seams showing. It isn't a matter of realism, because I would take the fight scenes in CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON (yes, even the ones where they're dancing on trees) over any of the fight scenes in this film because the choreography of the former film is much better quality, not to mention the direction and cinematography. Not that I'm some huge fan of CTHG, I just remember seeing that and enjoying it, without having to think about the choreography. Good direction and good choreography are seamless and don't draw attention to themselves. BROTHERHOOD OF THE WOLF was just a mess, in comparison.
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