Sunshine : The only true Captain is Mace

The only true Captain is Mace

He´s the real hero of the movie. If they had just made him the captain there wouldn´t even be a movie. It would have been the most boring space mission ever because nothing would have gone wrong.

He´s not only right every single time but he´s the only one thinking straight and having the guts to do the right thing every single time.

He stays level headed and just does what a real captain should do: Prioritize the mission above everything else and not let himself get carried away by his petty human emotions like everyone else did.

The earth is dying and 7 out of the 8 most important and brilliant and highly skilled and devoloped human beings act like they´re on an episode of Bonanza where they can fock around like it doesn´t matter. Even the psychologist, who is supposed to be a really really highly developed human being is basically acting like the craziest, most irrational religious lunatic, just because he likes the sun.

Still love the film though but I think you get what I´m saying. If humanity´s fate rests on your shoulders you don´t fock around in the sun room all day long acting weird or let your judgement be clouded in any way by your silly human emotions.


Re: The only true Captain is Mace

Mace wasn't fit to be the captain. Mace functions well in high-octane crisis situations because that's where his skills are, but in times of boredom when everything goes to plan (like the first 7 months or so, which is the bulk of the trip) he gets restless and belligerent, which doesn't benefit the team dynamics, especially if he were the leader. The opening scenes did show him get carried away by petty human emotions.

I'm not sure why you think the psychologist was supposed to be the "really really highly developed human being" of the bunch. These eight characters were all meant to be the top (or near the top) in their respective fields. (I say "near the top" because the best psychologist or the best mathematician or the best biologist might probably not be suited for being an astronaut. For example, I don't think NASA would ever consider sending, say, Stephen Hawking into space.) And all of these eight human characters had their own human flaws.

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Joe Satriani - "Always With Me, Always With You"
http://youtu.be/VI57QHL6ge0

Re: The only true Captain is Mace

Mace only *beep* up once (in the beginning of the movie) when it didn´t matter at all. After that (with the short hair again and when it really started to count) he´s the only one who made any sense.

This whole mission is a high octance crisis situation. They all knew that the probability that this was a suicide mission was pretty high. Therefore they should have been trained to be more rational. It´s not about them or about feelings, it´s about the mission = humanity´s survival.

The psychologist is there to keep everybody in check. Therefore he has to be highly developed and keep cool, calm and collected. But he´s not even cool, calm and collected in the beginning when everything goes right. He´s hanging out watching the sun. Don´t you see that he goes in the same direction as Pinnbacker with his obsession?

"What do you see Kaneda!!!" is not quite the normal unobsessed thing to say right before your crew member and Captain is going to die.

In a deleted scene you can find on youtube Mace even calls him out on his skin. Right before they board the Icarus I.

Granted: When they´re on board the Icarus I and one has to stay behind he "redeems himself" (as in being rational again) and does the right thing. But even there it´s not 100 % clear if he really is totally rational or just wants to face the full sun out of obsession.

Re: The only true Captain is Mace

The mission only became a high-octane crisis situation towards the end of actually the first half of the mission, when they were nearing the Sun. In the previous months (which the movie didn't depict) the atmosphere was "boring" and Mace was a liability. One can tell by the fact that Mace was growing a shabby beard; he was so bored that he didn't care about keeping himself groomed anymore; and he had constantly been looking to pick a fight with Capa and establish himself as the alpha male. That's not behavior worthy of a captain. It was Searle The Psychologist who had to put him back in check.

The problem of the team (which started the whole disaster scenario) was actually the team trying to be "too rational" and thinking that they were clever, educated and skilled enough to take rational decisions that could overrule their pre-set given mission. Mace said "no" (and was the only one to do so) because he strongly believed in the original mission.

By the way, I don't think the psychologist being depicted as the most prone to abstract, philosophical, religious or esoteric thought was that implausible; it rather felt natural that he (out of the whole team) would be intrigued and obsessed with thoughts such as "the power of the Sun" and falling in the same trap as Pinbacker. Moreover, since most of the team was going along just fine, the psychologist didn't have that many tasks at hand, and hence he had a lot of time to kill.

And one would need to have quite a "cool" head to not burn oneself in the "sun tanning room". :P


______
Joe Satriani - "Always With Me, Always With You"
http://youtu.be/VI57QHL6ge0

Re: The only true Captain is Mace

I agree that the alpha male thing in the beginning was not captain material. So I changed my opinion to just "The true hero is Mace" instead of true Captain.

Even the beginning of the mission was not really "boring". It´s not a nice day on the beach. You would feel immense pressure even when nothing´s happening the first few months. Probably even more pressure BECAUSE nothings happening. Having nothing to do can make your mind go crazy. They had the weight of humanity on their shoulders. Not knowing if all this works and especially not knowing what happened to Icarus I must have been intense.

"Trying to be too rational" as you put it is not being rational. It´s a nice euphemism for being irrational/dumb. A whole host of crazy risks and irrational assumptions were taken as discussed in other threads on this board (not knowing if Icarus I even works etc.). Mace was the only rational person here. Right when it mattered. They didn´t listen, so everyone had to die. Mace included who probably would have lived if they listened to him and nothing would have happened on the way back home.

Becoming obsessed is not worthy of a good psychologist (not even at home). Especially when the world depends on you keeping your shyte together. Being interested in the power of the sun is one thing, being obsessed is another.

Re: The only true Captain is Mace

A nice quote is "If the plot requires the characters to act dumb there´s not much of a plot".

In my opinion that´s (beside the Pinbacker/monster/slasher 3rd act) the only true weakness of the film.

Re: The only true Captain is Mace

The real euphemism in my post was "Mace believed in the original mission". As a systems engineer, Mace was (bluntly put) the "mechanic" or "repair-man"; that was his main job on the Icarus. Repair-men don't generally laud impromptu decisions to deviate from an original and overseeable plan (even if those decisions are rational), because it opens up a precedence for a host of new, non-foreseeable and otherwise avoidable problems, which simply means unnecessary extra work for the repair-man.

Mace was not a true captain, but a true foot-soldier. Not any foot-soldier, but actually the best foot-soldier there can be. And as such, he reluctantly went along with the changed plan, did his best to put his skills and knowledge into service of the new situation, and eventually he did save the day in this movie and therefore can be considered a hero. [*]

The crew decided upon the new plan because they thought that they were capable enough (they were highly trained and skilled people, and also thought they were trained enough at rational thought) and that it was the rational thing to do. We can say it was irrational only because we have watched the movie and we have seen that their decision later led to multiple disasters; but hindsight is always 20/20.

As you wrote yourself, having nothing to do can make your mind go crazy. In Mace, who was a hands-on pragmatic-oriented guy, this manifested itself in playing the "alpha male game". In Searle, who was more of a cerebral "theoretic"-oriented guy, this manifested itself in "seeking a higher wisdom" and obsessing with the Sun. Searle can be compared to, say, a bored mathematician who, out of sheer boredom because nobody gives him any meaningful tasks, starts obsessing over insignificant topics such as the decimals of pi.

By the way, I don't think Pinbacker was necessarily real; arguably he can be considered a representation of the main characters' (i.e. Trey's, Cora's, Mace's, Capa's, Cassie's) doubts and insecurities about the mission. But that's a topic for a different thread.


[*] Provided that we assume that Pinbacker was real, and that Mace didn't sabotage the computer mainframe himself in a moment of weakness and anguish.

______
Joe Satriani - "Always With Me, Always With You"
http://youtu.be/VI57QHL6ge0

Re: The only true Captain is Mace

I think you´re not completely off but you´re clearly underestimating Mace´s character/role or playing it down quite a bit.

On the other hand you´re cutting Searle some serious slack where I believe it doesn´t belong. You almost paint him as a dude who´s just a little interested in the sun when in reality he´s arguably starting to "do a Pinbacker". If Searle survived a little longer maybe he would´ve gone completely nuts and put the whole mission in danger. I was surprised that they didn´t take this road when I first watched the movie. Alot hinted at him or his obsession becoming a problem some time during the mission. Maybe he died before that could happen.

If I was a crew member on that ship and heard the psychologist - whos only function on board is to keep everyone normal - scream "WHAT DO YOU SEE!!!?" like an obsessed religious maniac when the ships captain is about to die, I would be like wtf and call a meeting as soon as possible and question him what´s going on. Anyone who´s acting that strange could potentially be a serious threat to the mission.

Maybe you´re religious yourself? Or an atheist? Serious question.






Re: The only true Captain is Mace

Butting in here because this is a great discussion. Apologies if I missed anything already stated, I didn't quite read everything (ugh, millennials, amiright?).

I loved the Kaneda death scene, it's the point in the movie where I knew I was all in. The music, stakes and multiple crises playing out at the same time (Kaneda's death, Trey's guilt, Corazon's loss of the oxygen garden which was her purpose and only reason for being on the mission, etc.)made it one of my favorite scenes ever. But Searle's question to Kaneda at the end of it was fantastic and a welcome, unexpected deviation from typical human reaction to a crisis. Searle's position was not one that Icarus 1 had on board and adding a psychologist was a response to the possibility of mental deterioration from extended space flight derailing the first mission (I think that's what boylse mentioned...). Was he asking because he was starting to lose his mind from studying the sun's effects and the prospect of confirming a godlike presence/source (or God or whatever you choose) overshadowed the impending death of his captain or was it purely scientific and, knowing Kaneda was a goner, took the opportunity to pursue knowledge/answers given the rare opportunity to ask someone who will glimpse what sunlight looks like just before it kills you what they observe (reminds me of the blackhole portion of Interstellar to a degree). I don't know the answer. At first it struck me as insane and out of place but after multiple watches, I can see the other side of it.

Fantastic scene, brilliant movie.


I'll show myself out.

Re: The only true Captain is Mace

So people with shabby beards are a liability?

Thats an ironic statement when the scientific advisor on this film, Brian Cox, is usually sporting the exact look that Mace had at the start of the film.

Re: The only true Captain is Mace


So people with shabby beards are a liability?

Thats an ironic statement when the scientific advisor on this film, Brian Cox, is usually sporting the exact look that Mace had at the start of the film.
It's been a while since I've seen the movie. I've now looked up pictures of Mace to check again what he really looked like. It does seem that his beard was less shabby than I remembered; apparently my mind played tricks on me, maybe my memory was mixing him up with the unshaven version of Sam Rockwell in Moon (2009). However, I think it's obvious that Mace's hair and appearance are meant to look rather unkempt, as if he hadn't gotten a haircut for a while.

The point is that if Mace was supposed to keep his hair short and his beard shaven/groomed and he had neglected that task, then it's a sign that he was losing his morale and/or decorum bit by bit, that he was getting psychologically unhinged, and hence that he might have become a liability. And indeed, he was a liability, since he was restless and always trying to pick a fight with Capa.

I've never seen scientist Brian Cox sporting a beard. By the way, I don't think Brian Cox resembles Mace at all; he rather looks like Capa (Cillian Murphy).

______
Keiko Matsui & Carl Anderson - "A Drop of Water"
http://youtu.be/kPUENUUuqSk

Re: The only true Captain is Mace

Cillian Murphy IS Brian Cox... well, the character he plays here might as well be. Looks the same, theoretical physicist, up himself.

http://www.aux.tv/2011/05/this-exists-bbc-physicist-brian-coxs-uk-election-influencing-music-career/

Curiously, it took ages to find a pic with a beard...
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-I-wmw8vZDo4/TqKb2keWvEI/AAAAAAAAALo/A8kK1ePNxg0/s1600/DrBrianCox_02.jpg

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Insert signature here.

Re: The only true Captain is Mace

LOL, thanks for the links and the laugh!

So physicist Brian Cox was one of the guys behind "Things Can Only Get Better"? (Yeah, I remember that song! But I had no idea he was involved, haha.)

______
Keiko Matsui & Carl Anderson - "A Drop of Water"
http://youtu.be/kPUENUUuqSk

Re: The only true Captain is Mace


I say "near the top" because the best psychologist or the best mathematician or the best biologist might probably not be suited for being an astronaut.


Or they were aboard Icarus I. ;)

Re: The only true Captain is Mace

You've got quite the nerve to come with that crap.
And you're only saying this because it turned out like that. And it did so because it's a movie that needs more content than a chilly ride into the sun.

Capa made his decision because 2 tries is better than one. He thought to succeed... double the chances.
You surely wouldn't deny this, would you?

The only two things in this movie that were not right... firstly Trey doing all the calculations alone. Not even the captain or Mace were roughly checking the agenda. Somebody would have noticed that the sun reflectors weren't considered.
And the second thing, the one that ruined all... the dude from Icarus 1. Something that shouldn't even exist.

It'd have been a great movie without him. Even with all the trouble.


edit
Oh yeah Mace, the guy who sent out the only important guy of this mission to repair the reflectors. As a revenge, pay back or whatever. That was certainly not in the sense of the success of the mission.

And later he blamed Capa for all the *beep* quite right after Trey's suicide. Yeah another smart move, maybe drive the next one into depression.

Mace had a problem with his temper. He's not fit for command.
And didn't he even beat up Capa because Capa used up the last msg home time?
Way to go.

---
Lincoln Lee: I lost a partner.
Peter Bishop: I lost a universe!

Re: The only true Captain is Mace

That's the whole point of Mace's character. He's the only one who's correct throughout the entire movie, but it's not only up to him to decide what's going to happen. So, they suffer for not listening to him.

Re: The only true Captain is Mace

Agree 100%! Hanada was the WORST spaceship captain I've ever seen in a movie. He's all bothered about what happened to stop the Icarus 1 but then he goes off and makes a boneheaded decision to let his Psych Officer and Physicist change the course of the mission. He was responsible for everything that went wrong.

I loved the movie but the captain was truly the weak link in their mission.

Re: The only true Captain is Mace

Agree- Kaneda wanted to stop by Icarus 1- he seemed quite fascinated by the captain of the other ship and what he was saying, and used Kapa to make the decision instead of him.

In the beginning there was nothing, and it exploded.

Re: The only true Captain is Mace


and used Kapa to make the decision instead of him.


Exactly.




… sometimes one life… If it’s the right life… That’s enough. Goodbye, Harold."
John Reese

Re: The only true Captain is Mace

Much like the vast majority of sci-fi movies, the directing/acting ruins this film. When you send a collection of doctors/scientists/engineers/soldiers on a space mission and they act like fools it takes the viewer out of the moment. It's the same thing that ruined Prometheus, professionals behaving unprofessionally.

The frustrating thing is they know the way around this problem but don't use it. Professionals acting professional would make for a dull movie but when you introduce a 'fish-out-of-water' character to drive the plot everything meshes together.
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