Breach : Don't you feel a little sorry for him?

I do realize that the way Hanssen was portrayed in Breach could cause sympathy for him, and I realize that Hanssen was a pretty cold hearted bast****.

But throughout the entire film, I felt no sympathy for this man at all (mainly because he caused at least 3 murders).

However when I read that he spends 23 hours a day in solitary confinement, I was horrified. Here is a man who knows that he will have only 1 hour a day of human contact for the rest of his life. All for what? For violation of the Espionage Act which he pled guilty to. For $1.4 million in U.S. secrets that, in the end, didn't do that much damage (or at least visible damage).

So far, I don't think he deserves 23 hours a day in solitary confinement. Then I come to another reason he was imprisoned: For the lives of at least 3 people. However, Robert Hanssen didn't kill these people directly. And even murderers don't get 23 hours of solitary confinement a day.

In the end,I guess that when you kill an American, you get a life sentence without possibility of parole. But when you double-cross America, you get a life sentence without possibility of parole and 23 hours/day of solitary confinement.

What do you think?

"Heavy lies the crown."
Jack Nicholson, The Departed

Very interesting point you brought up, I felt about the same way you did about that 23 hours a day situation. That does seem very harsh for a crime as such, I mean the man did not directly hurt people and wasnt a sexual offender or anything. May have been a bit perverted but who is'nt nowadays? I think a life sentence is good enough why put him in solitary for 23 hours a day? How will that benefit this country and/or this Universe as a whole?

Umm, you do know that Robert Hanssen knows lots of top secret stuff. They have to keep that knowledge secret and they can do that by isolating him.

Furthermore, exposing covert agents, knowing full well they will be killed, is like pulling the trigger yourself. What he did was just as bad as premeditated murder.


Life is too short to waste on hatred.

"They have to keep that knowledge secret and they can do that by isolating him."

Wait a sec. He is still given one hour a day of human contact. In that one hour, he can spill thousands of dollars worth of information about the CIA. The USA knows that. If Hanssen was still spilling the beans, he would be doing it an hour a day.

The US has not isolated Hanssen completely. Therefore we know that they are just being cruel. It is punishment, not isolation.

I agree with your second point (how getting agents killed is about as bad as killing them yourself). But you have to think in terms of Jeffrey Dahmer. Jeffrey Dahmer, in my opinon, is a much more evil and horrible killer. However, he did not get 23 hours of solitary confinement a day.

"Heavy lies the crown."
Jack Nicholson, The Departed

You sir, are an apologist and a fool.

Robert Philip Hanssen sold high level national secrets to the Soviet Union for cash. We are not talking about a small moment of weakness here. He betrayed every single person in America. If that isn't enough for you, he also happened to be a coward, adulterer and pervert.

Jail is actually too good for him.

Exactly, bobo.
Holy *beep* people, you just don't get it, do you? He caused HUGE damage.
Feel sorry for him? Hell no.

NahIt probably has more to do with the intelligence community being mad that he wasn't caught closer to 9/11 in which case it would have been _impossible_ for him to avoid the death penalty. The country was so radicalized by that event the citizens would have stood for nothing less. He would have been the absolutely perfect scapegoat. So the authorities, who would have loved to see him dead, are doing the next best thing.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe 23 hours of solitary confinement was part of his plea deal? With his plea deal his wife and family get his pension and he has to submit to a gag order. He Spills the beans all of that goes away and we could hang him then, so i think he will keep his mouth shut.



Also killers are mentally disturbed. ROBERT HANSSEN WASNT!



http://www.pbase.com/bkjansen220
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28877774@N/00

I doubt the 23 hours/day solitary is part of the plea deal. This is the same Colorado prison where the Unabomber and Eric Rudolph will also spend the rest of their lives. When Rudolph got sent there, the conditions he will live in were described. Sounds like the 23 hours/day solitary is what everybody gets there. Boo hoo.

I can't believe the people who think this sentence is too harsh because he didn't directly kill anyone. Uh, he betrayed people KNOWING the result would be that they would be killed, for money and to feel that "he mattered". And that's just the start of the damage he did.

yeah the stupid thing about what he did is he couldn't spend any of the money he got without arousing suspicion. Also i know this was mention before in this thread but i am again going to point this out to the OP we dont know everything he gave to the russians a lot of that stuff is still classified so he has probably be responsible for more then just three deaths
http://www.pbase.com/bkjansen220
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28877774@N/00

Forgiveness does not mean that you are relieved of the consequences of your actions.

The Prodigal Son blew the only inheritance he is going to get.

Well, on point 1: no, most americans aren't religious christians. However, yes, Christian morality has had a strong influence on America, and western civilization as a whole. Anyways in regards on how the christian idea of "forgiveness" ought to be applied to this situation:

In my personal opinion, I feel like if someone wrongs YOU personally, then YOU personally should forgive them "70 times 7 times" as Jesus says. However, in regards to how we should treat crime, the Bible often uses the analogy of shepards and sheep in regards to Kings, and Jesus himself. Kings are entrusted with the safety and well-being of sheep, and are to protect them from predators. (King David was a shepard who protected his flock prior to becoming a King.)We don't have a "King", we live in a democracy, so we all have the duty to help "protect the flock." So, IMO, when YOU are attacked, YOU are obligated to forgive. When people to who's care you have been entrusted are attacked, you have the duty to protect them.

Anyways, I know other Christians may disagree with this, but it's my opinion, that I feel is Biblically consistent, and alsojust makes since! Otherwise, how do you have any type of functioning justice system of crime and punishment for those who prey upon the innocent?

Actually, in part of that, you're wrong - 78% of Americans are nominally Christian and 41% of Americans regularly attend Christian religious services.

For tht crimes that Hansen commited againd the United States, treason and espionage resulting in deaths, he could have been executed, and his family not received his pension.

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he has probably be responsible for more then just three deaths

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I read or saw someplace that he also cost the country billions of dollars. And in the 70's that was no chump change.

BBL

Also killers are mentally disturbed. ROBERT HANSSEN WASNT!


Actually he was. Not legally insane (as in not knowing right from wrong), but if the movie portrays him correctly, as having done it to feel important while everyone was looking the mole, then it is almost certain that he suffered from a Narcisistic Personality Disorder. Not a flattering label, but a painful condition nonetheless. People with this disorder feel they don't really exist if they don't have someone's attention or admiration at any given moment.

Hmmmmm, I wonder what isolation does to a person like that. I suspect they either grow up fast or crack.

And no, I'm not an apologist. Consequences are a necessary part of life. Do I feel sorry for him? Maybe a bit. But I also know he belongs in jail for life. And isolation does seem like poetic justice for someone who trampled on the lives of others while making himself feel good about himself.

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Also killers are mentally disturbed. ROBERT HANSSEN WASNT!

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Well, technically he was, if you count narcissistic personality disorder. And I think you should, because you seem to count sociopathy as a mental disturbance.


BBL

How was he an adulterer? He didn't sleep with anyone other than his wife as far as anyone knows. He went to strip clubs, but the strippers said that all he ever did was try to convert them to Catholicism.

Totally agree.

well putas a Soldier and a member of the community that Hanssen sold outhe should have gotten the death penalty(Title 18 USC) And btwhis actions directly resulted in the death of way more than three peoplethree of the people were really high profile though. The is absolutley nothing sympathetic about this piece of dirt.

There are two types of people who get solitary confinement. Killers and people who have information than can hurt people/the US. Hanssen gets 23 hours inside by himself and 1 hour outside "alone" The only way he could leak information is to the guards watching him in his 10x10 cage outside.

"Wait a sec. He is still given one hour a day of human contact. In that one hour, he can spill thousands of dollars worth of information about the CIA. The USA knows that. If Hanssen was still spilling the beans, he would be doing it an hour a day."

You should really STFU since you don't know WTF you're talking about. That 1 hr out of his 'solitary confinement' doesn't mean he's with general population or chatting with other people, it means he's out of his cell so he can shower, walk the yard, exercise, make phonecalls, etc but he won't be having contacts with other prisoners.

Wow it's not Hanssen's fault that governments kill people for pleasure. In my opinion Hanssen was part of the game. If there were a few cooler heads in office, maybe there wouldn't be a need to a)spy and b)kill.
What about Bush sending american troops into Iraq, is that not pulling the trigger? It's all a big joke! it's not about you, me or joe blow, it's about money and power. The guy should be in min security prison for Gods sake.
They shouldn't be keeping secrets from us anyway.
my mom always told me, secrets breed enemies.

your mom is a stupid, conniving bitch then

The Only Morality in a Cruel World is Chance.

The only thing "cruel and unusual" is the damage he caused, the security he put at stake, and the lives lost because of him.

You don't really know how much he have done as much of it is classified. He may have done alot more than what is known, also it may be because he still know certain secrets the american goverment don't want out. I don't know, but it's really not that bad considering that in many cases betrayal of your country gives death penalty.

He's probobly in solitary confinment because of what he knows, and what secrets he could continue to spill to other inmates.

None of us know the extent of what this man was responsible for.
A person given that level of trust in a job such as his answers to all of us as citizens of the US. In the years he was betraying the govt & ultimately all citizens who knows what things he told the Russians who in turn told others who would hurt the US. He didn't do it for money, because of course he knew he could never spend it. Perhaps he did it for his EGO. To prove he was smarter than everyone else. We will never know why he did it or the extent of the damage he caused. 23 hours in confinement is too good for him. In his warped mind I can imagine those 23 hours are spent in prayer for his soul, but he had to know what he was doing was wrong. So why? I feel there is no definitive reason just a sick, evil man with Daddy, God & ego issues who will burn in hell. Too bad because that's probably what he wants after all.

Walter Sobchak: Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules.

None of us know the extent of what this man was responsible for.
A person given that level of trust in a job such as his answers to all of us as citizens of the US. In the years he was betraying the govt & ultimately all citizens who knows what things he told the Russians who in turn told others who would hurt the US. He didn't do it for money, because of course he knew he could never spend it. Perhaps he did it for his EGO. To prove he was smarter than everyone else. We will never know why he did it or the extent of the damage he caused. 23 hours in confinement is too good for him. In his warped mind I can imagine those 23 hours are spent in prayer for his soul, but he had to know what he was doing was wrong. So why? I feel there is no definitive reason just a sick, evil man with Daddy, God & ego issues who will burn in hell. Too bad because that's probably what he wants after all.

Walter Sobchak: Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules.

Thank You. Finaly someone with some sense.

cooper plays this character well but its a very similar character to his american beauty role. almost identical really.

For those who feel that his punishment is too cruel or too much for the crimes that he committed, please, oh please, read the text at the ending of the movie. It clearly "justifies", if that is even the right word, their punishment laid out. It said that he is responsible for at least three murders, and millions of dollars worth of classified information and then it says that the U.S. Gov. has classified the rest of the information he has betrayed. Maybe he told the Soviets something that nobody is supposed to know about the U.S. nations security and how to breach it? Maybe they classified this information because it's not meant to be known to the public or anyone else who can take advantage of it? Read between the lines, theres more than just appears on the surface.

To answer the question.
Hell no, I don't feel sorry for him. He should be dead right now. Treason/Espionage against this country is an offense punishable by death.
He was also a rat, because he plea-bargained. He should consider himself lucky that he is alive, and gets to see light for an hour a day.
He sold secrets of the United States to the Soviet Union/Russia and I think other communist countries. In a sense, he probably put all of our lives in jeopardy.

*beep* Robert Hanssen
I hope he rots in hell after rotting in prison for the rest of his life.

Precisely I don't see why people don't understand that. They even say it in the film, that it's punishable by death.

After looking him up for info I agree 100% with you, that shows how good Chris Cooper's acting is. I felt sorry for him in the movie.

I also felt he was portrayed so would almost feel some sympathy for..I definitly did. And I am not sure how to feel about that.

It costs alot of money to look this cheapDolly Parton

Of course I feel sorry for him.
Or rather, I Feel sorry for Chris Cooper's portrayal of him.
Because in the hands of a skilled actor like Chris Cooper, the character's humanity is fully exposed, and he is shown as a complex and compelling individual.

He didn't just indirectly kill people. He was selling secrets. He was giving another country access to information that could give them an advantage to America. We're not even allowed to know how much damage he really did. If I had all of the facts, maybe I would feel sorry for him. However, we haven't been told everything because some of the information in this case is still classified. That leads me to believe that the U.S. government doesn't want us to know how deeply we were compromised.
With the information we do have, I don't feel sorry for him. And if more information was available, I probably wouldn't feel sorry for him in that case either.

Haha well you may say that now, and I don't know which country you're from, but I'd bet your country would be in a whole lot of trouble if the US collapsed.

Yes and No. How is that?

Sometimes I look and I see Veterans who lay their life on the line for their country and next, they are on Bum fights.
One minute of "Your a hero", the rest of your life a parapalegic.
Go see "Flags of our Fathers".

Later on, I learned that after WWII, German scientists were brought to American and Russia and were treated better than Americans or Russians.
Speaking of which, Chris Cooper was also in "September ?" talking about the German Scientist. Werner Von Braughn?

So, where does that lead us?
Patriotism? Yah. Go ahead and die for your country. Your a hero.
Or, you could be smart about it and do what double agents do.
They cheat the cheaters.

But, like everything, there is a price, there is no point of refuge.
He swore an oath, he was fully aware of the consequences, but he did it anyways.

So, just like Rome, their is always a conspiracy somewhere in politics.
Hitler had them all killed, but a few tried to do him in.
I am sure somebody is after Bushs job and if it succeeds will be linked to Alqueda, just like JFK and the link to Cuba.

There was some mention of how Russia sold some software to Alqueda, which Bin Laden acquired and used against the United States. So, indirectly, he is partially responsible for 9/11.

So, Yes and No. I guess he wanted the life and he got it.
Yes, I feel sorry that he wanted that life and No because he got that life.

Be careful what you wish for. It may come true.

not really, he reminded me of al davis!

He was an agent sworn to secrecy, not an ordinary guy, they have to punish him hard for failing his duty. Nothing can excuse what he did. Hes like a firefighter that put buildings on fire because it gives him a boner. Urges are meant to be controlled or they will control you, it what makes us human. He couldnt control his urge to spy because it gave him a rush and made him feel important. Getting locked up was the best thing that could happen to him, he has probably never felt as free as he do now.

However having 50 agents on him may seem like an incredible waste of the taxpayers money. But it was probably worth it to show Russia and whoever else he sold secrets to that America knows. And it should make americans value their country more knowing the system will do everything it can to bring even traitors to justice, rather then just killing them, like they do in the bad parts of the world.

You summed it up!

I don't feel sorry for him, he betrayed his country, BUT i have no sympathy for the 3 russian guys who's deaths he caused. They were just as bad as him (only on opposit sides), they were russian spys who were working with the FBI. They were also betraying their country.

So he deserves whatever he gets for selling the secrets, but i wouldn't call him a murdered.