Platoon : Was O'Neil a coward at the end?

My father (a desert storm vet) and I have had this discussion over O'Neil hiding under the body of a dead soldier. Firstly, I myself enlisted, but was declined due to a lung issue I have. So I personally do not have military experience.

His argument, and I don't think much detail needs to go in here, is that O'Neil was a coward for hiding from the enemy under the body of one of his fellow men in an effort to just stay alive.

My counter argument, is that he was being pragmatic and was completely overrun by that point. Fight or flee would have done nothing more than got him killed, so stay alive was really the only option he had left.

What are other peoples opinions on the character and the situation?

I am for pragmatic. He was a coward through the whole movie, but in that case I found his reaction understandable - there was no other option to survive and nothing to gain from doing otherwise.

I hated O'Neill, I thought he was probably the biggest coward of the bunch (it's between him and Junior), but in that particular case, I thought it was actually smart. There were too many VC swarming around at that point, he only would have died in vain.

The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

Yeah, live to fight another day. O'Neill was the ultimate kiss ass coward but he lived thru the battle and thus got a chance to take over what's left of his Platoon.

Shall we play a game?

Thank you for the responses. It's also pleasing to see an older movie still gets new posts fairly regularly.

It didn't really come across in the movie but in the book, the soldier was still alive and O'neil used him as a potential human shield. The VC were known to shoot/stab the "dead" as was shown in Junior's case. He took a big risk that the VC wouldn't fire into them or drop a grenade. A clear case of desertion before the enemy.

Calling O'Neill a coward? Well, yes overall he was like during the first mini ambush when he threw the grenade and near the end when he tried to plead with Barnes to take off a few days.

His choice was to hide under the body or die unless he was lucky enough like Taylor to dodge every bullet.

In the military you may have to sacrifice your life if lawfully ordered. Pragmatism is great for armchair generals and those that haven't served. I'm sure their orders consisted of something like "hold this ridge. Don't let any through and no retreating." Guess what? That means confronting the enemy even at the risk of dying. Hell, he didn't even shoot the enemy in the back after they went by!! Had everyone done their duty and fired on the enemy, it may have delayed the enemy to allow more air/arty strikes; bought time for a maneuver element to flank them; time for reinforcements; ad infinitum. A soldier is just a cog in the machine that is EXPECTED to perform as ordered in order to contribute to the desired outcome.

Screw that, I want to stay alive! The times I was in a war zone in Afghanistan, if our compound got rocketed or any other attempted attack, I just ran to the bunker. The end!

Glad I was Air Force!

In the Nam a lot of soldiers did what they had to to survive. Fraggin' became a huge problem towards the end. Most soldiers will fight to save their buddies but when you gotz 10 days and a wake up left in the bush that's when it gets interesting!

Shall we play a game?

Fragging was mostly a 'behind the lines' problem where the grunts dealt with 'chicken shyte' officers their own way. Now in the fieldbeing a screw up & potentially getting your guys killed (regardless of rank) was sometimes 'dealt with' using a grenade (or five or six guys working you over with soap bars wrapped in towels)





Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

LOL fragging is a lot different than a blanket party! Plus, fragging was employed against leadership whereas a blanket party is for motivation among the ranks. Our wing nut sounds like a true Fobbit. Good thing real soldiers handled perimeter security. Cowering in a bunker is exactly what the enemy wants you to do.

I think he was a coward. He probably spent all night hiding under a dead man, emerging only when the coast was clear. To be fair, he did not pretend to be a hero. Being put in charge at the end was the worst thing that could happen to him. He just wanted out of there. The only characters in the film more despicable were the rapist and Junior. O'Neil did have some comic value as a character.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

It was a miserable waste to die over in the jungles of Vietnam.

Shall we play a game?

O'Neil was certainly very opposed to being miserably wasted.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

What book? Platoon was never a book, Stone only wrote the screenplay for the movie?

There was a novel or else a novelisation of the film. I recall glancing at a copy in a second-hand bookshop.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

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His argument, and I don't think much detail needs to go in here, is that O'Neil was a coward for hiding from the enemy under the body of one of his fellow men in an effort to just stay alive.

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May not make much difference but the body O'Neil took shelter under appeared Asian. I always assumed it was the enemy. Also the NVA did not give the body the poke with a bayonet.

O'neil proclaimed himself a coward when he begged the Sgt. for a Hawaii leave shortly before the battle whimpering he had a "bad feeling."

Back to hiding under a body. The most fearsome enemy is one who will continue to attack even if it means certain death. The character O'neil was not a most fearsome enemy.






He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator.

O'Neil was cracking under the pressure just like a lot of the other guys. Didn't the Army later admit that placing a grunt in the jungle for a full year was too stressful?

Shall we play a game?

As a temporary expedient when your position is overrun, it might be defensible to do that, so you can resume the fight when the attackers have gone past. But O'Neil probably hid there all night.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

Eew, hid there all night? In that hot and humid jungle, the body was probably starting to stink and get flies on it by then

Not pleasant but that would probably make NVA soldiers keep their distance. Anyway O'Neil would probably prefer hiding under a rotting fly-blown corpse to death.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

"Red O'Neil" was a real person, as were most of the others in the movie. I was a student at the University of Hawaii during the 1968-69 school year. My roommate was my best friend from Florida. He and I put up military guys on R&R (Rest and Recuperation) in our apartment on Kuhio Ave in Waikiki. In September '68 we met a guy in civies with red hair and the thousand yard stare. He stayed with us that night, and told us his story

He was AWOL and determined to not go back to the military. He had a bag of pills, including White Lightning acid (LSD) pressed into fake Anacin tablets. He thought it was funny, because his acid would "fix your head."

He told us that he expected to get busted the next day, and that it would mean "Leavenworth" (a prison sentence) if he got picked up by the Military Police or Shore Patrol. We talked nearly all night, wanting to know about what was really going on in the 'Nam.

He had just come "out of the bush" after a horrifying experience that involved his squad shooting Vietnamese civilians. His story telling began about midnight, and continued for a couple of hours. We listened as he described shooting up a "ville". They had found evidence that the villagers had been feeding North Vietnamese Army (NVA) troops, so they killed as many villagers as they could.

The last thing that he spoke of before crashing for the night was how he got out of the Nam. They set up camp, ate, and then slept. They were overrun by an enemy force, and nearly all were killed or wounded. Red pulled his dead buddies over him when their position was overrun. They bayonetted bodies, but missed him in the night.

Red went on R&R, bought his bag of drugs, and prepared to stay stoned as long as he could. He correctly predicted that he would be caught, and we never saw him again after that night.

When Oliver Stone's Platoon came out, I went to see it. When I watched "Red O'Brien" hide under his mate's bodies on the screen, I flashed back on that night in Honolulu. It had all been true. I have no idea where Red is today. His actions were dispicable, but would I have done any different? I will not judge without having walked in his boots.

He is a fictional character though there were no doubt real-life examples of him. The character is quite unpleasant. (McGinley is a good actor, especially of types like that.) He is a wise-ass to subordinates, grovels to superiors and is openly afraid of combat. I pity those he commands after the film action ends because if there is any trouble he will run and leave his men to deal with it.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

If they would have given Red his overdue R&R he would have stood up and fought. I think the message from Platoon is that the whole way the "war" was fought was unfair. Incompetent leadership, the good guys get wasted for nothing, fighting amongst themselves more than against the enemy. Even inside this one small platoon it's divided and sure enough, one of their own leaders(Elias) gets shot one of his own peers..and nobody does anything about it.

What's Red supposed to do? Die in the jungle for nothing? He doesn't have support from his leaders, he doesn't have support from his peers, he doesn't even have support from his own country! His morale is completely destroyed so he just does what he can to survive and maybe he will see Betsy again.

Shall we play a game?

"Those who judge are not qualified to do so"


OBVIOUSLY NOT MANY COMMENTATORS WITH MILITARY EXPERIENCE

The ACT of Cowardice is judged according to facts and specific circumstances as well as a simple "What is expected? What has been Agreed? and What is best for the Army/Nation/Soldier?"

It's pure silliness for any Armchair, Couch Potato Generals to claim "Cowardice" who have never faced death or terrible danger in Combat. NOTHING in life comes close and judgement of others who have no experience is useless, pompous and self-righteous.

Was HE a coward? Sure did seem that way throughout movie. Was that specific ACT cowardly? NO. Even the Army itself will tell all soldiers "We do NOT win Wars or Battles by dying for our Country. Making the Enemy die for his is the goal."

Living to be a fighting part of tomorrow's Army is not Cowardice when you would have otherwise been totally wasted~

Court martial boards consist of serving officers though they may not have combat experience. Anyway, combat soldiers who are left to deal with an NVA assault while the O'Neills run or hide might take a less charitable view.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

O'Neil pretty much was a coward but I'm not going to judge him on the dead body incident, I have a feeling most of us in that situation would react similarly rather than going John Matrix on the entire North Vietamnese army.

"I really wish Gia and Claire had became Tanner" - Honeybeefine

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the entire Vietcong army.

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Just a minor quibble but those guys were North Vietnamese.





Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

Thank you it's been fixed.

"I really wish Gia and Claire had became Tanner" - Honeybeefine

He and Barnes both came across to me as veterans of multiple tours of duty. IF that is the case, I can only wonder why a man like him (or anyone) would volunteer to go through all of that again.

If it WAS his first and only tour, I don't blame him for doing what he did. I'd be inclined to think his experience would benefit the platoon and any reinforcements soon filling in for those killed or wounded. It has been awhile but if any of the other experienced guys lived and stayed behind their experience might serve the same purpose.

Not a nice guy at all, he was a bully but to call him a coward is maybe wide of the mark. King says at one point something like there is no such thing as a coward here which I think is true and is one of the key lines in the film.

It smells like a Spin Doctors concert in here.

It reminds me of a possibly apocryphal story about Marlon Brando before he started his acting career. He was enrolled as a cadet in a military school and he was asked, "if you find your commander lying dead on the field of battle, what do you do?" Brando replied, "Run like hell." He was promptly expelled.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

When o Neil hides under the body they haven't been over run yet.. He's a coward..

Just watched it again and to be honest there is little else he could do in the situation- there are about a dozen VC swarming down to his bunker and he is the only one alive there so if he had tried to fight he definitely would have been killed. It was a smart move to hide under the dead body at that point, but perhaps unrealistic that they wouldn't have checked he was dead - you can see his helmet when they look down into the hole.
Junior, however is definitely a coward, hides in the bunker for the whole fight, but clever enough to stab himself in the leg when he comes out from his bunker so he can get to go home injured.

Good post but its not Junior who stabs himself at the end its Francis, Junior gets stabbed to death by the Viet Cong during the battle after trying to run away I think.

I've already posted on this but I think its easy to label people cowards without taking everything into consideration. The guy stabbing himself at the end could be looked on that way but after what he has just witnessed the previous night could you blame him or anyone else for wanting to escape that madness?

It smells like a Spin Doctors concert in here.

Yes, Junior tries to run but concusses himself on a tree trunk growing out of their foxhole, and then a young NVA soldier bayonets him.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

I used to think he was a coward but now not so sure. If you were put in that position with all that chaos would you not consider saving yourself? Its very easy to judge from afar.

It smells like a Spin Doctors concert in here.

I just remember the look in his eyes when he's told he will take over the next platoon.

Definition of despair, and desolation.

Isn't he passed over for R&R a time or two? (May be another movie- didn't watch the whole this time)

Any eventsomeone he loves is in HAWAII -
HAWAII = paradise
VIETNAM = hell

I'm not judging him.

I don't think O'Neil is fit to command other people, any more than the lieutenant was, and if another NVA attack comes in his first, last and only priority is going to be personal survival, troops under his command are going to look around for their sergeant and wonder where he has disappeared to within about 5 seconds of an attack.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."