The Killing Room : It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

I consider myself to be an intelligent person and I have watched a shed load of films in my time. There have been some classics, some stinkers but none have left me feeling so utterly baffled as this piece of garbage.

My issue (and one no doubt brought up by others much more elequontley than me) is this - how does the "survivor" wanting to kill himself mean that he is a suitable match as a suicide bomber? Seriously, if I was put in that situation it may well cross my mind that the easiest way out is to shoot myself but that does not mean that I would have the psychological make up of a suicide bomber. That is something completley different - why does wanting to take ones own life after watching people being brutally and pointlessly murdered in front of you mean that you are patriotic and messed up enough to suicide bomb. I cannot see how the two can be aligned. There was nothing in the character (and I use that term very loosely seeing as how there was next to no character development in the film) to suggest that he was patriotic. Nothing to suggest he was predisposed to suicide. Nothing to suggest he would agree to the request that will be made of him.

Is it enough for the filmaker to go "We put him through the ringer and he wanted to kill himself so he must be patriotic and happy to kill hundreds by sacrificing himself"? Hell no. And that is exactly what they have done. It makes no sense.

I am so angry right now. There is absolutely no logic behind this film and people claiming the ending is a great reveal, well you want to sort your *beep* heads out. IT MAKES NO SENSE. Just because you consider it to have some resonance in the current "War on Terror" climate (it doesnt, by the way - it is using the very real threat posed mainly in eastern countries where our armies shouldnt be as a lazy, haphazard plot device) doesnt mean that the ending is good.

Rant over.

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

If you bothered to watch the movie, Peter Stormare's character answers your question - that's what the second test is for. Pay attention before complaining (not that the movie was all that great, but there were no plot holes).

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

It provides no answers at all. It says "we tell you what to think and what we tell you is that he is suitable to be a suicide bomber" - there is no sense whatsoever and the pay off at the end is a slap in the face to anyone who has watched the film. It is a cheap, quick way out of providing a rational ending.

The film makers explanation: He is suitable to be a suicide bomber because we say so. Stop, dont ask questions. That would mean some capacity for independent thought. Think what we tell you and what we tell you is that he is suitable because he is.

As incomprehensible as that sounds it is spot on. Awful, awful film.

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

He's a suitable suicide bomber because he's willing to sacrifice himself for the sake of the other - a random person he just met at that. He said, "I never would have made it, but you would have." That's the mindset they want for a the bomb, the movie was only phase one. The next 3 phases are for cultivating that into a will to do so for the country.

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Re: WAKE UP; I WAS GOING TO SLEEP

Phase one was to give them a likely candidate for a suicide bomber, nothing more. He moved on to phase two, and there are 2 other phases after that to weed out the potential candidates. It's a process. What part of that is so hard to understand?

It's not the film's fault you don't understand it.

DOLLHOUSE: The Final Episodes Starting DECEMBER 4th

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Re: WAKE UP; I WAS GOING TO SLEEP

So what youre saying is that we have to endure a further 3 films to establish exactly whether he is a suitable candidate? That is bull plop of the highest order. They kill off what could be hundreds of people to find the odd one or two who may be "suitable" but we, the viewer, will never see whether they are because the chances of their being another film (let alone 3 more) is minimal. The plot suggests that very few get past the first stage. Indeed, they are killing off all of the group. So of these few that make it to the second/third/fourth stage you are unlikely to get more than one who is truly suitable. The sacrifice of human life to get that single person will, in all liklehood, be of a higher loss of life than a single suicide bomber in any event.

So to that extent not only is the story flawed in so far as it leaves things open ended (a poor way to finish any film but especially one this bad) it is flawed in that no one with any intelligence would authorise such a programme.

But Im guessing that its America. Would probably be considered patriotic thinking to kill numerous of your own citizens in return for killing a few of your "enemies". USA, USA, USA.

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Re: WAKE UP; I WAS GOING TO SLEEP

fail 1) we are at stage 2 now, with 4 in total.

ok, at the end we heard this was experiment 17.
the experient prooved, that 1 out of 20 people would sacrafice themself for their country. with 17 groups, that would result in 65 dead people in turn for 3 potential suicide bombers - i suppose we see them in the last scene when stage 2 begins.

if they aim to "protect" innocent people, they are working extremly inefficient at it.



fail 2) that said, we hear that they want to use these suicide bombers to "adapt", and fight the enemy with his own weapons.

a suicide bomber usually attacks a large amount of unaware people.

terrorists ain't crowded in large amounts like people in a shopping mall.
terrorists ain't unaware people.
if you manage to take out a cell, the terrorists won't complain or resign, they will just send another to replace it and go on, likely with increased diligence.

suicide bomber's for sure ain't the smart way to go if you want to fight terrorists.



fail 3) last, but not least. if you reach a point where you make use of the same methods you are trying to fight, you become just another terrorist and could as well just put a bullet to your head.



so what do we get form this movie?

plot: triple fail
acting: barely acceptable
rating: 4/10

2 because it was suspenseful to a certain extent
and 2 because it was unpredictable



for the most part, the quality of a movie depends on the intelligence of its audience.

Re: WAKE UP; I WAS GOING TO SLEEP

"suicide bomber's for sure ain't the smart way to go if you want to fight terrorists."

It's not about fighting terrorists. Ever heard of Malthus? Positive checks and preventative checks? Who said anything about sending the bomber into Iraq to fight the Taliban? There are a billion Chinese. There are a billion Indians. There are more of "Them" than there are of "Us" and as natural resources become more scarcewell, it just becomes a numbers game.

You send 10 guys with internal dirty bomb into the major cities of China, or Saudi Arabia, or India, and you set them all off on the same day, and you could kill 100s of thousands (especially if the dirty bomb were spreading say, Small Pox, or some other highly contagious disease).

And your misreading of this point leads directly into your next bit of confusion

"fail 3) last, but not least. if you reach a point where you make use of the same methods you are trying to fight, you become just another terrorist and could as well just put a bullet to your head."

That was a big part of the point of the movie. There is very little difference between a US soldier fighting for Jesus and the American way of life and a so-called "Terrorist" fighting for the the word of Allah and his way of life. The underlying social and political justifications are nearly identical. And both groups are being manipulated by elites like Chlo Sevigny and Peter Stormare.

They even reference this overtly earlier on in the film when Stormare comments back to the initial MK ULTRA tests and how his mentor told him that half way around the world "they" (the Russians) were doing the same thing, so we had better keep up.

Nice catch about the other 2 people in the room with Nick Cannon at the end, didn't pick up that they were the survivors from the other rounds.

Also, I would maintain that the film implies that it is actually Sevigny who is being groomed for this mission, not Cannon.

,Said the Shotgun to the Head
Saul Williams

www.myspace.com/ohhorrorofhorrors

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

It provides no answers at all. It says "we tell you what to think and what we tell you is that he is suitable to be a suicide bomber" - there is no sense whatsoever and the pay off at the end is a slap in the face to anyone who has watched the film. It is a cheap, quick way out of providing a rational ending.

The film makers explanation: He is suitable to be a suicide bomber because we say so. Stop, dont ask questions. That would mean some capacity for independent thought. Think what we tell you and what we tell you is that he is suitable because he is.

To a small extent, this is true and contributes to the fact that it's not a great movie (but it's certainly not terrible).

But you're inaccurate or ignorant as to the validity of your "evidence."

We don't just know that he's a good candidate because a character says "he's good" - we see how he behaves in the tests and, if we are competent critical thinkers, should be able to extract meaningful evidence from him. And the main point is that he shows a willingness to end his own life in the service of the greater good. If you can't see how this might make him a good candidate to test further for suicide bombing, you need to fix something about your comprehension/vision/hearing/whatever when watching movies.

Plus, the "character x is suitable for this mission because" line is certainly not a sign of sub-par writing. Movies are CONSTANTLY telling us who people are and what they like. If you need to establish a character as, say, a cop, it's perfectly legitimate to have someone whisper (pssst! Careful, that guy's a cop") at a party to give us that info is not a weakness in the filmmaking, and can usually be better than instead showing us tons of footage of the character being a cop to drive home the point.

There is much to criticize about this film, but you've chosen pretty weak and totally incorrect ones.

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

i think it is just about a personality type. replace patriotic for subservient & you will have your answer. he's homeless, how could his life get much worse. i am sure they would attempt to lift him up, emotionally, by turning what was, what most would consider, a useless life, into one of great honor, so to speak. these aren't my personal opinions, but what i imagine to be the great selling points. the thing i found to be more disturbing, is this could actually happen. many new & unconventional methods, acts, projects being used in our gvmt these days.
i wouldn't call any film awful, that raises questions & debate. this isn't a movie one walks away from feeling good. it seems so outlandish, absurd, that people are looking for holes. i did the same thing after the first time i watched it. on the second viewing, i went into it with a more open mind. & every day i watch the news or read about our current world events, i don't think anything could really surprise me, upset yes, surprise no. look at all of these ignorant americans attending these tea parties & creating violence, threatening, attackingover issues they seem to know little to nothing about. no offense, btw, to any rightists that may be reading this.

serva me, serva bote

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

^Great Post!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8273110340777778333#

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

he is homeless why should he be proud of his country - for making it easy to become homeless?
plus: why is it always about the nation in the usa!? he wants to kill himself to save other HUMANS and not AMERICANS for *beep* sake! sorry.
he doesn't want PEOPLE to die - why should he be a potential suicide-killer?

the ending really IS dissappointing!

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

As much as I disagree with this movie, it does make some sense, the survivor's personality fit the role they had for him. He proved to be the most compliant and hopeless of the group- he was constantly willing to accepting the rules and placed little value on his life evidenced by his lack of motivation to "cheat". Most psychological tests look for the 'docile' person in the group.

What I don't understand, is why they go through all the trouble, money and manpower to develop such an inefficient and expensive weapon. If they were doing something akin to sleeper agents la Dollhouse, then it would seem more feasible but instead they spend all this money reverse engineering a human psyche only to make it blow itself up. They must work for Bush (that's a joke)

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

You are right.

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

Yep, that was my exact reaction at the end. I just finished it and "it makes absolutely no sense" there are so many holes in what the film is trying to say.

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

First of all, you have obviously not watched that many movies if you think this film is that bad.
Secondly, I see where you're coming from, but think about it from the US Government's point of view: if he was willing to die in order to save this guy he didn't know JUST because they spoke the same language and were stuck in the same room together for a few hours, then think about what he would be willing to do for the rest of the country.
Thirdly, nobody was brutally murdered in the film. People were shot in the head. That's an instant kill. Seeing this happen wouldn't have made him depressed or suicidal if he wasn't already predisposed to it, it would have only frightened him and made his resolve to get out of there greater.
Finally, the film never says that he's going to go out and be a suicide bomber right away. It only says that his personality is such that he can be molded to do so. How does the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines do it? They don't drag kids off the street and send them straight to Afghanistan; they train them to kill. They wouldn't pull someone off the street to be a suicide bomber, they'd train that person for that "job," if you will.
Now stop being angry, it's just a movie. You could have just as easily turned it off at the beginning when you noticed none of the characters had names, or as you were going through and noting that there was "absolutely no logic behind the film," but you didn't because it obviously entertained you. Isn't that what movies are supposed to do?

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

Movie made perfect sense to me

And 'pedalmetal' and the humorously-named 'ignore_this_poster' both explained it quite well.

Re-read if necessary.

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

I saw this movie. And was not impressed by it. It did feel like "The Cube" in a way. Another film with the characters getting killed off one by one?

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers


People were shot in the head. That's an instant kill. Seeing this happen wouldn't have made him depressed
now how fu*ked up are you ?!

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Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

At the risk of getting flamed, those criticizing this movie are missing the point. You're supposed to be turned off by the idea of creating suicide bombers. It's repugnant and a waste of resources, both people and money, not to mention illegal. The whole program that Dr. Phillips ran wasn't supposed to be about you, the audience, watching it and thinking "I think that's a good idea." You're supposed to really not worry about it because Dr. Phillips says that after 9/11, there was a change in thinking, a change in strategy. In movies, this is done to signal us that this isn't important, so they won't spend a lot of time developing the idea. Also, the government wastes a lot of time and money on projects that don't make sense. Eventually, when it doesn't work (which it probably won't), the plug will be pulled and everything swept under the rug. In any modern country, we're cynical enough to believe that things like this take place, no matter how far-fetched.

But still, the point, as I said, wasn't the project itself. It ultimately didn't matter if it made sense or not. The story was about the young man, Paul, and the new trainee scientist, Ms. Reilly.

I came out of this film thinking the same thing everyone else did: those experiences don't make him a suicide bomber! And if the show ended with him being carted away, I would have been upset. But then I thought about it: they ended it with Paul going to the next phase. Who knows what's going to happen in phases 2-4? Maybe he'll be brainwashed; those guys strapped to the chair looked out of it.

No, you don't have to worry about the other phases being made into movies. We don't need to see what happens. We're just left with the awful sense that whatever Paul is in for, it's going to be bad.

And lastly, he also demonstrated a desire to sacrifice himself for others by "guessing" the wrong number on purpose. He knew, like most people, that 7 was the best answer, but he didn't want to let these other guys die for him. How does that translate into wanting to blow himself up and kill others for America? That's what phases 2-4 are for.

Also, please can the anti-USA talk. You sound like a cliche.

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

Something I think a lot of people aren't understanding is that they are using 4 phases of the experiment to weed out POTENTIAL civilian OPERATIVES. Not necessarily just suicide BOMBERS. The operatives could be used for a multitude of other things rather than just setting off suicide bombs. Chemical and biological warfare where the person that deploys the agent will die is just one example. Infiltration where death is likely is another. And they aren't simply looking for someone willing to kill themselves if pushed. If the survivor had simply tried to kill himself out of fear or to "escape", he wouldn't have been a candidate. He WAS a candidate because he tried to kill himself for the PURPOSE of saving another. This does not make him a candidate to be a suicide bomber, it simply shows he is willing to sacrifice himself for what he sees as the "greater good". He attempted to kill himself to buy the other prisoner time, since he felt the other man had a far better chance of escape. It was implied that he did this for the purpose of saving other lives in the futureso that the other prisoner could escape, warn people, and save lives. This was quite obvious, and the reason he was a POTENTIAL candidate for further study. This was the purpose of them convincing the subjects that their captors were Muslim extremists, or working FOR Muslim extremists. His willingness to sacrifice himself with the hope that the authorities could be warned and their captors apprehended, thus saving AMERICAN lives, was what made him interesting to them and a candidate for further experimentation and preparation.

And what is with the view that in order for the movie/story to be worthwhile, it must follow the remaining prisoner to completion of the program? How many great movies have left off without complete closure? A great movie makes you think, it doesn't have to spell everything out for you and follow the main character through their geriatric years until death, LoL. Not to say this film was GREAT, but it was certainly worthwhile and thought-provoking. Why do we need to follow the character through the remaining stages of experimentation? You're missing the message and point of the film. There is no need to follow any further. The point has been made. It would actually degrade the film to continue on. Does everyone these days need everything explained to them in detail and for every aspect of a film to be spoon-fed to them? I hate to think how some of the great films of yesteryear would be received by this generation.

Finally, just because the experiment doesn't seem worthwhile, reasonable, or moral to you does not mean it would/could never occur. The film was actually based on REAL experiments conducted by the CIA. The premise of the film is that despite Presidential orders to shut this program down, it either continued or was restarted due to the current war with Muslim terrorists/extremists. Of course the experiments aren't moral. Of course they're wrong. So were the many similar past experiments that are FACT. That didn't stop anyone then, and probably wouldn't now. The point of the film is to show the lengths we are willing to go out of fear. The lengths we will go when at war. The lengths people and governments will go when allowed to operate with impunity. The moral dilemmas we face when fighting an unconventional enemy. It isn't an anti-USA thing. You could have substituted any country's equivalent of the CIA instead and made the same film. Many other countries have similar horror stories of government/military run wild. It leaves you to draw your own conclusions about the film, which is a good thing. It doesn't jam a "message" down your throat. Some might think these types of programs are a necessary evil when fighting a war with an unconventional enemy. Some may think the sacrifice is worth it.

Just because they're killing off more citizens of our own country than enemies that may be killed with the operatives they glean from the program, that doesn't mean this could never happen. The rationale for programs like this isn't always logical. They might feel that in order to combat extremists, we have to show them that we're willing to go to the same lengths as they are. Many believe that they are so confident and have a clear advantage because they feel we are incapable of these type of tactics. Tactics like suicide bombing are never going to win a war. They aren't MEANT to. They are MEANT to spread fear, doubt, and chaos amongst the

1) Populace
2) Authorities
3) Government Leaders

The exact motivations of the characters running the experiment in the film aren't known, but we can gather they feel creating normal, inconspicuous citizens able to blend in until they attack, and willing to utilize the same fear/terror tactics as our enemies is a worthwhile endeavor. Many officials in the military would probably utilize these same tactics if not for the moral outrage that would rain down upon them were it to be exposed. Who knows, there may still be programs like this in our government and others around the world. It is not implausible at all, especially given similar experiments are a documented part of our intelligence agencies' history.

Anyway, I had to chime in when I saw some of the posts bashing the film. If you didn't like the film because of the subject matter, acting, direction, editing, scoring, or a multitude of other reasons, that is perfectly fine with me and I'll shut up and let you express your opinion. But to say the events in the film are implausible is ridiculous. In addition, to say it was lacking because it didn't follow the remaining character throughout the remainder of the experiment (and who knows how much longer after that would have made it "acceptable"? Until his nursing home years? The afterlife? I hated that it didn't show his trip across Styx into Hades. This Movie SUCKED!) is a bit ludicrous as well, and would mean a multitude of films and novels considered amongst the greatest in history were lacking as well. That argument just doesn't hold up. Just my .02. Take it for what you will.

The film made perfect sense.to me.

My Rating: 6/10

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

Terrorists use suicide-bombers because they don't have better weapons. If they had the technology and resources the USA has, would they still blow themselves up? I don't think so.

Terrorists use suicide-bombers on civilian targets. If the US Army had suicide-bombers who would they use it on? Civillians? Wouldn't such a "weapon" be useless?

What is the point of "creating" such a weapon for a military power like USA?

Thats why it doesn't make any sense!

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

This method of killing people would be useful in so many ways. How could you use a smart bomb, or UCAV against an american city? By creating these suicide bombers, they can attack a target in a packed restaurant etc, without the media fallout of killing many civilians in the process. Also when they need more U.S. support for new restrictive laws, or support for a war on terror they can detonate one in an american city.

Suicide bombers in muslim terms are MARTYRS, they don't think of it as suicide. They believe they are doing the right thing for God/Allah and their country.


Seach for 'human experimentation in usa' on wikipedia or google an discover the tip of probably a very large iceberg. Radiation tests on unknowing civilian cities, tampering with water sources, testing on mentally ill, on pregnant women to determine effects on foetus, and on children. These are just the proven ones

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

There are two movies going on at the same time. The events in the "Killing Room." And the events in the control room. The melding is the (chaos and confusion), and the questioning of it.

Re: It really makes no sense!! Spoilers

Mr Clever lives up to his name (and I'm not being sarcastic!).
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