La La Land : Black people are furious about this movie

Black people are furious about this movie

A lot in the black community are pissed off that this film is an all white cast and romanticizes an era of racism that we should not look at nostalgically.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

And that's why black people can be annoying as hell. And that is not even a racist comment I'm black myself and the constant complaining of every thing they don't deem to be equal enough is honestly bull.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

I'm yet to hear any credible black people complaining. At all.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Then you're living in a bubble--There have been many articles by black writers saying they despise the lily-white casting of this movie, a white jazz pianist, since jazz was originally created by blacks, and that John Legend was just thrown in this movie by Chazelle, because his previous film, Whiplash, was even more lily-white jazz than this one--And the 1950's jazz, which Chazelle likes, was a bitter time for blacks, not an era to celebrate with fantasy all white musicals

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

And if that is indeed the case, is that a false accusation?

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

I just rewatched whiplash and noticed that there are more black actors in the film than whites.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

its only done because they are trying to sell it to a white audience some of which is still partially racist, especially those in white dominated areas who haven't been exposed to people outside narrow definitions.

to include more black would be to lose profits from some of these audience, essentially.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

'And that's why black people can be annoying as hell. And that is not even a racist comment I'm black myself and the constant complaining of every thing they don't deem to be equal enough is honestly bull.'

So I just have to take your word that for it that you are black. You come across more like a member of the KKK.

John Legend has a prominent role in this film, there even an interracial relationship.

It's that man again!!

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Re: Black people are furious about this movie

not making it up. films like this that glorify white privilege are an embarrassment
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/01/the-unbearable-whiteness-of-la-la-land.html

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Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Yeah agree. Also, this movie isn't really set in the 1950's either. Just because it's about jazz and the the cinematography is unique, people think it's set in the 1950's.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

This article was written by a white man. I mean it, look it up. You just chose the worst possible example as an argument.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Yeah, this thread is a bit of a canard.

There are no black people "furious" about this movie.

There are legit criticisms made by lots of different folks, including myself, that though the movie is set in the present, you wouldn't know it by the cast, which is almost exclusively white and curiously straight.

I mean, it's L.A. we're talking about here, which is a pretty gloriously diverse set of people. Anybody who's been there, or worked there, or lived there will tell you it's not Pleasantville U.S.A., but see, that's kind of how it looks and feels in this movie.

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Re: Black people are furious about this movie

I don't understand the argument that the cast is all white. There are really only three characters in the story that are integral to the plot: Mia, Sebastian and Keith. One of those characters is black, so the argument already falls apart there.

This isn't a film with a large supporting cast, and there are no true side stories. It is very much a story focused on two characters, with Keith and Mia's tall brunette housemate being the only other characters who have speaking roles in more than two scenes.

But even if you look beyond those roles the background cast is pretty diverse. The other characters in the story include Mia's other housemates (one of which I believe is British-Asian), Sebastian's sister (who marries a black man), JK Simmons' character, the English photographer, Mia's partners before and after Sebastian, the guy trying to impress her at the party (I believe he may be Hispanic) and then the casting agents (the only named one of which is a black woman). The girl in the yellow dress during the opening musical number is definitely the centre of that scene, and I believe she may be of Indian descent. Outside of that we have four bands: Keith's band, the Lighthouse band, the 80s cover band and the band playing at Seb's at the end. All of those bands are predominantly black except for the 80s band.

So the film definitely portrays the racial diversity of LA. If you REALLY wanted to find fault you could suggest that Hispanic and/or Asian representations could have been higher ... but I honestly believe that wouldn't make a difference. Like I said, there are really only three characters important to the story. The rest are just band.

So the criticism can only really be focused on the fact that the two leads are white, which is obviously true. But what's wrong with that? I think diversity is great, and the recent Golden Globes really had a chance to showcase that due to a decent crop of diverse casts and writers/directors in top films/TV series during 2016. But does that mean there can never be two white leads in a film? 2/2 may be 100%, but it's still only two. How would you represent diversity with such a small number? Does one character out of the two need to be black? I'd be ok if it ended up that way, but then what about Hispanic, Asian, European or Middle-Eastern communities? Do we then make the other lead from one of those groups? So does that mean we can't have white leads?

See how that line of thinking creates an unsolvable problem? The argument would make sense if there were eight integral characters and all were white. But like I said there are really only three, and one of them is not white.

I firmly believe that Chazelle chose those he felt were best for the roles, and would have done so even if one or both of the leads ended up being of a different colour.

As for the above comment regarding sexuality and that all the characters were straight ... how do we know that's the case? The only characters we know the sexuality of are Sebastian, Mia (and by proxy her other partners), Greg's brother and Sebastian's sister. We don?t know if Keith might be gay. We don?t know if any of Mia's housemates might be gay. Perhaps JK Simmons' character is bi? So the argument then isn't about the sexual diversity of the characters, but the lack of representation for sexual diversity. But how do they solve that? Should Sebastian's sister marry a woman instead? Should one of Mia's housemates be holding hands with a girl at the pool party? Should Mia's partner before Sebastian have been a woman? Should Keith have a male partner with him at the Lighthouse?

I would have been fine with any of those. But if they are there just to shoehorn *diversity* into the film so the director can pat himself on the back ... has it really achieved anything? Wouldn't that just feel patronising and exploitative? Once again, the issue here doesn't lie with the background characters, it comes down to the leads.

I would have had no issue if the film was about a same-sex romance, and we were dealing with two male or two female leads. But considering this film is a long-term personal project of Chazelle's, and Chazelle is straight, I think it's fair to say Chazelle wanted to put some of himself in Sebastian's character. He already conveys this through the character?s stubborn love for jazz (much in the same way as Whiplash), which is a passion he shares. This would become harder for Chazelle if the character was pursuing a love interest that Chazelle himself wouldn't experience. He wrote the character in a way that felt natural to him, and gave him a love interest that felt natural for that character to have.

This is even further compounded when you consider the obvious fact that the film is a nostalgic love-letter to the Hollywood musicals of old, and Chazelle was obviously setting Gosling and Stone up to emulate the Hollywood male-female couples of old.

Anyway, I believe that there definitely is a lack of racial and sexual diversity in Hollywood, but I believe that La La Land is not the right film to criticise for this.

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Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Please don't say "cray-cray", its the most cringe-worthy expression of the 21st century

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

More cringe-worthy than "vajayjay" ?

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Re: Black people are furious about this movie

I remember "go with" and "come with" from the early 80s. Maybe coz I hung out with cool ppl

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

"Go with" is by no means a new-ish expression like "cray-cray," "vajayjay" and "You go, girl!"

I was saying "go with" 45 years ago when I was still a kid.







"'Extremely High Voltage.' Well, I don't need safety gloves, because I'm Homer SimpszzzzZZZNNNmmm--" - Frank Grimes

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Yeah, that's why I said I remember it from the early 80s. For some reason you replied to me instead of EdD5.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Sorry, I replied to the wrong name:


"Go with" is by no means a new-ish expression like "cray-cray," "vajayjay" and "You go, girl!"

I was saying "go with" 45 years ago when I was still a kid.








"'Extremely High Voltage.' Well, I don't need safety gloves, because I'm Homer SimpsonzzzZZZxxxNNNnnn--" - Frank Grimes

Re: Black people are furious about this movie



Just want to say that's one of the most thoughtful and well-written responses I've seen on any forum here over my dozen years posting. Well done. There are things to complain about when it comes to this film (though IMO none of them are really major) but race and gender (apart from Mia being somewhat underwritten - but I think give how fantastically she is played this is a smaller problem than it seems on paper) aren't things to get upset about, unless you want to get upset about every single Hollywood film ever. Trollish critics like Armond White (the gay black intellectual Donald Trump-loving professional contrarian) are going to say what they want to but audiences are not for the most part falling for it.

I would also add that Chazelle's first film, Guy and Madeline on a Park Bench, which I saw last night, features three leads - a black man, an Asian woman and a white woman, and the black protagonist has relationships with both women - interracial romances are still something you don't see too much in American film, any more than you see gay relationships. Probably half of the secondary cast is black as well (mostly jazz musicians). So in three films with just 8 total significant characters (is anybody besides Miles Teller and J.K. Simmons really important to the story in Whiplash?) we have two African-American men, one Asian-American woman, and 5 Caucasians. Not super-diverse but not exactly whitewashed casting either. Pretty typical and I think pretty reasonable for the stories Chazelle is telling and the person he is himself.


Be true, Unbeliever.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Just stop already. So sick of anyone complaining about someone else's creation or vision. If you are offended stay away- not happy with content or casts of film- make your own. As an Italian- American I still have family members that have not seen The Godfather because they are offended by the portrayal of Italians. Sad- I remind them how they are missing one of the greatest films of all time as I watch it for the hundredth time...I will not look away.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Ah- last time I looked, John Legend was black.

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Re: Black people are furious about this movie

OP is just trying to start an argument and generate anger at imaginary "black people." Just another Trump troll in all likelihood.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Well, black people's opinions don't matter quite as much now as they did a few months ago, so it's a moot point. Of course that won't stop them from whining, but happily we don't have to hear about it as much anymore..




Fabio Testi is GOD

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

I'm all for diverse casting, 100%. But would an extra black character, of having one of the actors be black, or have a gay supporting character change the quality of the film for the better? If the complaint is about race, then I doubt the complainer has any sense of credibility in relation to film criticism and analysis.

Furthermore, the complaint about Seb and his attempt to save jazz is just as credible as saying Eminem was out there to save hip-hop. Jazz isn't a mutually and exclusively black genre of music, no music really is.

Besides, La La Land presents no political or racially charged themes, thus, all this complaining about race is irrelevant. It's like saying that Schindler's List should have featured black people, or gays, or the disabled.

La La Land is about two people and their ambitions, dreams, lust and how that all comes to fruition, and how it tears them apart from their goals. It's not a musical about the 1960s Selma Civil Rights protests or the Stonewall riots; instead, it's a rather specific story and could have had any number of people being cast. But whoever was cast, whether be black or white, I doubt would have changed the quality of the film.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Trump is truly bringing out the absolute worst garbage there is in the US ...

-It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything-

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

"Trump is truly bringing out the absolute worst garbage there is in the US...



Yep! Don't ya love it?






Fabio Testi is GOD

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

I know slavery was bad and everything involved.
But it's bit of piss take going on about racism all the time! Do the Germans get abuse over the holocaust all the time??
No they don't Hugo boss designed the ss uniform think that stops people buying the clothes?
And voltswagens history and Porsche? No yes it was bad and racism still exists because you can't get over it.
No one alive today was involved so you should stop banging on about past atrocities they best way forward is to learn and forgive!

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Judging by your history you generally hate everything and everyone and nitpick everything to death.
You make grandiose sweeping generalizations that make no sense.
You seem to hope for divisiveness.

Everyone needs a hobby, I guess.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

I knew that was coming. I'm sure the bullsh!t term "cultural appropriation" was used as well.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

What a retarded thing to say, you can't involve every culture/race/gender/color of people in the world in every single movie. If certain people find that a movie lacks their culture/race/gender/color then go make one yourself ffs. Stop trying to blame it on other people and do something about it yourself if you find this to be true.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Black person here, really liked the film, not at all furious. But I understand how some might be unhappy about a white guy speaking with such supposed authority on African-American music.

"What race are you? If you don't tell me I'll just...assume the worst."

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

I'll quote my post:


"...the complaint about Seb and his attempt to save jazz is just as credible as saying Eminem was out there to save hip-hop. Jazz isn't a mutually and exclusively black genre of music, no music really is."

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

It would be silly to think that just one man would "save" an entire genre of music. La La Land is a fantasy film, it's not grounded in reality. Seb has a passion for Jazz music, and it's something that he refuses to see dying. I think we can all agree that at least one point in our lives we have had a fear of a certain genre, form, or style of art dying. It's like parents who complain that the 70s and 80s had the best music ever made.

Seb is an unapologetic dreamer, and it does seem strange that a white guy would want to "save" a genre of music rooted in black culture, however, I would argue that Jazz - and music in general - should be universal. No music genre is specifically for one race, gender, or creed (unless it is something widely specific like Christian rock, for instance).

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Heh. I was actually going to say it's similar to how some black people feel about Eminem, who I also really like.

Anyway, I have yet to encounter anyone saying jazz or hip-hop is only for blacks. It's not. But the movie could have made some effort to acknowledge its African-American roots. Instead of just Seb waxing lyrical about some nebulous group of immigrants that used music to communicate.

"What race are you? If you don't tell me I'll just...assume the worst."

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

If people want a jazz/blues history lesson they can go to a library to get some background on Blind Lemon Pie. This movie is not meant to be a classroom on music.








"'Extremely High Voltage.' Well, I don't need safety gloves, because I'm Homer SimpsonZZZZZzzzzz--" - Frank Grimes

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Thanks for the snarky dismissiveness. But it won't make me, or anyone like me, feel different about how the subject was handled.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

It wasn't snarky. If I go see "The Aviator" I don't expect a lesson on aerodynamics. If I see "The Revenant" I don't expect a lecture on avoiding future bear attacks. If I go see "Big Eyes" I don't want to see paintings of big eyes.






"'Extremely High Voltage.' Well, I don't need safety gloves, because I'm Homer Simpsonnnnzzzznmnmnmnmnm--" - Frank Grimes

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Who was asking for a lecture? I simply said it would have been good to hear, somewhere in his rants about jazz, a specific acknowledgement.

"What race are you? If you don't tell me I'll just...assume the worst."

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Acknowledge what?

Re: Black people are furious about this movie


But the movie could have made some effort to acknowledge its African-American roots. Instead of just Seb waxing lyrical about some nebulous group of immigrants that used music to communicate.



You're contradicting yourself here. Seb explains to Mia that it is important to understand Jazz's deep roots i.e. the flop house in which Jazz was born. Seb continuously acknowledges the black roots of Jazz throughout the film, mentioning greats such as Miles Davis, Pharoah Sanders, John Coltrane, etc.
He even states to Mia that the elevator jazz, "mostly" adopted by white artists such as Kenny G do not count as pure Jazz as it lacks the conviction and passion of the original artform. Besides, Seb's dialogue about the birth of Jazz only serves to provide context to his passion for the art form, not to be some elaborate history lesson. If he did explain the history of Jazz from start to finish, the film would be meandering and loose focus and pace.

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

Contradicting myself? I said I wasn't furious about the film, but understood why some black people might be upset by its handling of jazz. I'm not looking for a history lesson, or a 'lecture', but something more specific than name-dropping, especially coming from a white guy.

I mean, this is the impression it can give off:


The wayward side effect of casting Gosling as this jazz whisperer is that La La Land becomes a Trojan horse white-savior film. Much like Matt Damon with ancient China in The Great Wall or Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai, in La La Land, the fate of a minority group depends on the efforts of a well-intentioned white man: Gosling's character wants to play freestyle jazz instead of the Christmas jingles he’s been hired to perform because, damn it, if the people can’t hear real jazz, then it’s going to cease to exist.



http://www.mtv.com/news/2965622/la-la-lands-white-jazz-narrative/
"What race are you? If you don't tell me I'll just...assume the worst."

Re: Black people are furious about this movie

You're saying Mostly adopted by White artists such as Kenny G(an extreme example, he's boring easy listening), do not count as pure jazz because it lacks "conviction and passion"?--You don't get it killerhawk, "PURE jazz" is BORING, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Charlie Parker,Thelonious Monk, that's ancient crap that even if you DID play their stuff in an elevator, people would say, God that's awful get me off this freaking elevator!! Seb(Chazelle)'s archaic attitude is not shared by Jazz Fans at all, or anybody else-----------------------It was both blacks AND whites who took JAZZ out of the awful 1950's and 60's and made JAZZ fun and listenable(much like the BEATLES made music in the 1960's that was 100 times better than any pop music in the Elvis Era)IN THE 1970's: Black Artists such as Donald Byrd, Herbie Hancock, Ramsey Lewis, The Crusaders(My Lady, Chain Reaction),Earl Klugh, Stanley Clarke,Ronnie Laws, Hubert Laws,George Benson,Grover Washington Jr(Mr Magic,Sausalito) and White Artists such as Pat Metheny(San Lorenzo), Tom Scott, Maynard Ferguson, Flora Purim(Angels), Jean Luc Ponty(Renaissance),etc--
Using different musical instruments like the Flute, Electric Keyboards,Bass Guitar, Mellotron, even Synthesizers: Kool And The Gang's famous Summer Madness(1974), with its soaring keyboards, could also be considered progressive jazz--Yes, the roots of Jazz are "pure" but nobody wants to hear them today(they didn't even want to hear "pure jazz" in the 1970's!), so Seb is a certifiable nutcase--John Legend is the only true character even remotely akin to what Jazz is all about: Its progressive and adapts to the times, not stuck in a time warp of Seb and Chazelle's(like his old jazz dumb Whiplash movie)making.










Re: Black people are furious about this movie

hmm.....i'm not a racist but didn't u meant to say....".ETC..A LOT IN THE NEGRO COMMUNITY...ETC...".....LOL LOL ?


PS.

I never understood why the word negro is different to the word black and why when u call a black person...."BLACK" is cool but when u call him...."NEGRO" then u are a racist....LOL
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