Sully : Just how is he a hero?

Re: Just how is he a hero?

You're a good man Sailor. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I guess this was a dead end.

~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

Lol, in seeing your reply, I notice that "it" said something too, though I have no idea what. I guess it thinks I dont have it ignored.
Whatever it was, It's likely just more fake antagonistic bullsh!t. Typical of the troll.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

Re: Just how is he a hero?

Lol. Don't have the balls to confront like a real man, and instead want to hide behind a woman's skirt. Jesus, if this is the "hero" we have in the Navy, sure is worrying.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

Lol. You mean you were too much of a pussy to fight back, like the coward you are who play-pretend at being some Admiral. Lol.

Guess I really exposed you huh. Stalking me now. Don't even have the balls to reply to me, and had to hide behind a stealth post.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

Simple. You claimed that I claim that I am objectively correct when I made no such claim. You being a cowardly liar.


[Augustus_Octavian] Whether you favour the strict or loose interpretation is a matter of personal values and opinions, and cannot be factually right or wrong

[Degree7] It is entirely subjective [emphasis mine] ... Just because your personal definition of the word doesn't include Sullenberger doesn't make it more of a fact than anyone else's opinion in here

[Degree7] The problem arises when certain people, such as yourself and the OP, treat their opinions as infallible gospel

Re: Just how is he a hero?

You made the claim of objectivity when you brought up the "strict interpretation" (of which there is no such thing). You then proceeded to sing a different tune once you realized the flaw in your thesis. End of story. Now welcome to ignoreland.

~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

I explicitly indicated, as per the below quotes, that there are varying interpretations, all of which are feasible.

Tough, isn't it? To sing your line of bullsh*t when I so annoyingly post the proof/quotes right here. Sure, sure. Run away like the little boy you are. 😊




[Augustus_Octavian] Whether you favour the strict or loose interpretation is a matter of personal values and opinions, and cannot be factually right or wrong

[Degree7] It is entirely subjective [emphasis mine] ... Just because your personal definition of the word doesn't include Sullenberger doesn't make it more of a fact than anyone else's opinion in here

[Degree7] The problem arises when certain people, such as yourself and the OP, treat their opinions as infallible gospel

Re: Just how is he a hero?

Again, implying that Sully doesn't fit the "strict" interpretation of the term heroism implies that Sully is less of a hero. There may be varying interpretations, but it should be made clear that they fall under people's personal, not factual, definitions. It is simply a fact that Sully falls under almost every definition of the word hero. Whether you're happy with this fact is obviously a personal problem.

~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

Re: Just how is he a hero?


There may be varying interpretations, but it should be made clear that they fall under people's personal, not factual, definitions
Which is what I said, no? That there are different interpretations, which are favoured by different people. Why then did you claim that I claimed to be factually right?

It should be very clear by now that I am willing to go a few thousand posts, if necessary. I will continue to press you relentlessly on the below quotes.

And what happened to running away like a little bit*h? Thought you couldn't stand up to a real man?




[Augustus_Octavian] Whether you favour the strict or loose interpretation is a matter of personal values and opinions, and cannot be factually right or wrong

[Degree7] It is entirely subjective [emphasis mine] ... Just because your personal definition of the word doesn't include Sullenberger doesn't make it more of a fact than anyone else's opinion in here

[Degree7] The problem arises when certain people, such as yourself and the OP, treat their opinions as infallible gospel

Re: Just how is he a hero?


I am merely pointing out that under the strict interpretation, Sully is not a hero because he did not willingly risk his own life


Again, an assertion that there are strict and loose interpretations of the term, which you can't even prove. There is no strict definition of the term. It's all subjective, but you favouring this imaginary "strict" interpretation means your opinion holds more weight, so your claim that you think no one is factually correct is completely bogus. By even saying that there is a meaning to the word that is more strict (i.e. Correct) means preferring that definition would, therefore, make you more correct. I guess somewhere along the line, you wanted to argue a completely irrelevant point just for the sake of it, without realizing that you've been contradicting yourself this entire time. It's actually kind of f̶u̶n̶n̶y̶ ironic.

Anyway, if you want to continue this any further, you can PM me. At this point, we're just arguing this into nothing, and this is turning into something petty that no one else is really interested in. However, if you're going to PM me, you will be respectful and courteous; no facile, ad hominem attacks or name-calling please. Because no one likes debating with a jerk.



~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

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Re: Just how is he a hero?

reported as troll

Re: Just how is he a hero?

Thanks.

~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

You want to leave, you leave. I am not obliged to let you have the last word.

Otherwise, defend your position. You made the claim, now own it.




[Augustus_Octavian] Whether you favour the strict or loose interpretation is a matter of personal values and opinions, and cannot be factually right or wrong

[Degree7] It is entirely subjective [emphasis mine] ... Just because your personal definition of the word doesn't include Sullenberger doesn't make it more of a fact than anyone else's opinion in here

[Degree7] The problem arises when certain people, such as yourself and the OP, treat their opinions as infallible gospel

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Re: Just how is he a hero?

'Hero' can mean a few things. Here's one definition that Sully seems to fit:


a person who, in the opinion of others, has special achievements, abilities, or personal qualities and is regarded as a role model or ideal:

Re: Just how is he a hero?

With this rationale there were likewise no at Pearl Harbor afterall everyone there was in the same danger from the Japanese attack as everyone else.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

Manning the anti-aircraft guns put you in additional danger since those would have been priority targets.

Hiding in your bunker does not.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

You're right in that he would have most likely done the exact same thing if he were alone, BUT he stayed on that plane to make sure everyone was evacuated. Though it wouldn't have been noble he could've just jumped ship so to speak, right away. He essentially sacrificed his own safety to make sure everyone else was as safe as they could be.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

I think the movie should have answered the question "how is he a hero?".

Re: Just how is he a hero?


I think the movie should have answered the question "how is he a hero?".



I disagree. This movie is not Sully the hero or Sully the heroic act....its about Sully period. So I have no expectations that the movie will glorify Sully as a "hero". The man himself said he doesn't consider himself a hero. But rather this movie humanized Sully and showed Sully's perspective of the events. So before the movie I already liked Sully...after the seeing the movie, I liked him even more. So whether people here argue if he is a hero or not....the fact remains he saved 155 lives (incl his own) to the best of his abilities. I would call a guy who saved my life a hero anytime of the day..no questions asked.



You can waste your life drawing lines or live your life crossing them.

Re: Just how is he a hero?


Schlacko
He was in the same danger as everyone else.
He didn't take a risk to help others, or make a sacrifice to help others.
He acted out of self-interest.


Of course he is a hero. He was faced with a harrowing and difficult situation which was dealt with in a calm and professional manner, despite the danger he himself was in.

There was plenty of risk and no guarantee of success. He was given the choice of attempting to return to La Guardia or attempt to reach Teterboro Airport.

He decided rather than to run the risk of further causalities in populated areas to attempt a landing in the Hudson. "Attempt" because there is no guarantee of survival during a water landing and these can still be difficult at the best of times.

So yes the above proves he was thinking of more than himself and even the passengers by considering the implications of crashing into homes and buildings.

And as for water landings:


"[He] landed at precisely the right speed, completely under control, wings totally level. If one wing dips and catches the water, the aeroplane cartwheels, breaks up and some people would definitely have died. "The calmness of the Hudson river was a blessing in this case, compared with a choppy sea, says Mr Hanks



"you have to skim the surface like a pebble. If you go any other way; putting the tail or nose down too quickly, you're either going to break the plane in half or porpoise the thing, into the water and out."
Skill is a significant part of the process, observes Mr Hanks, but it's not the only requirement. "In terms of the actual impact on this occasion, [Capt Sullenberger] did a very good job, and he was also very lucky."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7833317.stm

Lastly:


Sullenberger was the last to leave the aircraft; he walked the dry area of the passenger cabin twice to ensure everyone had evacuated before retrieving the plane's maintenance logbook and sliding out of the plane. He then pressed for information on whether all 155 people aboard (150 passengers and five crew members) had made it out alive; it took several hours for him to learn that everyone aboard had indeed survived.


This does not sound like someone just trying to save his own skin but someone that would have been willing to go down with the plane if there were still passengers stranded on board.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

Thank you Mark, it's good to have a little common sense in a thread.

People's definitions of heroism are bizarre. Heroism can mean demonstrating great bravery in the face of adverse odds. A soldier who keeps his comrades alive while under fire can be a hero; what Sully did was the same thing on a different level.

People just look for an excuse to be cynical. Pathetic.

~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

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Re: Just how is he a hero?

Anyone who seems just a little bit larger than life is called a hero.

www.HumansofSiliconValley.com

Re: Just how is he a hero?

Besides troll, is there a nickname for people who post contrary, possibly derogatory posts about popular movies just to see how many responses they can get?

Re: Just how is he a hero?

Tell that to the 150 souls he saved, s-hole.

Bambi + Lewis Skolnick = Disney's Peter Parker

Re: Just how is he a hero?

Any person who transports other people, holds their lives in his hands. His decisions can mean life or death for his passengers.

If he makes the wrong decision, it can cost lives. The airline wanted him to save their plane as well as the lives of the passengers onboard.

Sully made a calculated decision. There was not enough altitude to make it back to Laguardia Airport. He was flying over one of the most populated cities in the world and figured his best bet was to ditch the plane over water.

If the angle had been wrong on descent, he and his co-pilot, might have been killed while everyone else onboard probably would have survived so it was hardly out of self-interest. He knew that too going in.

A hero is not only someone who sacrifices himself for others. That might also describe a martyr. A hero is someone who does something extraordinary while in the course of an action that saves others.

He chose what he believed to be the best option that would ensure the maximum chance of survival for his wards and he was correct. Not one person perished because of his actions and decisions. He even managed to land as close to vessels already in the Hudson to ensure that his passengers had minimal risk to hypothermia and that they would have a speedy recovery and rescue.

He did what few others would have done. He saw clearly the situation and didn't hesitate. He knew that following the book would mean loss of life, possibly all of theirs and quite a few on the ground and in any buildings he struck as well.

Captain Chesley Sullenberger is a hero in the finest sense of the word.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

People keep bringing up the word sacrifice. Sully had the opportunity to go back to La Guardia, and he could have made it, but doing so would risk the lives of people on the ground. He chose to land in the Hudson, thereby risking his own life. Thus: hero.

~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

Re: Just how is he a hero?


Sully had the opportunity to go back to La Guardia, and he could have made it


No, he couldn't have made it, his intuition was correct and the test simulations show that he could not have made it back to LaGuardia.

Yes, he is a hero, but your fact is wrong.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

The documents, released as the National Transportation Safety Board prepared to consider safety lessons from the accident, show that if pilot Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger had immediately attempted to return to LaGuardia after ingesting geese into both engines the Airbus A320 would have made it - barely.

In simulators at Airbus's training center in Toulouse, France programmed to recreate the conditions faced by US Airways Flight 1549 on that fateful day, pilots were repeatedly able to turn the airliner around after the engines lost power and successfully land on a runway back at LaGuardia


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ntsb-sully-could-have-made-it-back-to-laguardia/

~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

Re: Just how is he a hero?


if pilot Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger had immediately attempted to return to LaGuardia after ingesting geese into both engines the Airbus A320 would have made it - barely.


The key word there is "immediately." Sully did what any good pilot would have done, begin to follow the steps in the checklist for "double engine failure". That took time, and he realized that returning to LaGuardia wasn't an option for him.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

As far as I am aware it was the copilot Skiles who was working on the checklist and trying to restart the engines. Sully had taken over on controls and was deciding on whether to land on a runway or in the Hudson less than a minute after the geese had hit the plane. That's what the simulation didn't take into account (from what I've read). The only reason he didn't head back to La Guardia was because the results of failure would have been even more disastrous, but I think either landing in the river or the airport was a crapshoot either way.

~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

Yes, that's right, Skiles was working the checklist but he didn't get all the way through it when time ran out. He said afterwards that the checklist assumed they were at cruise altitude, much higher than the 2500 feet they were at when they lost the engines. That is also the reason they didn't throw the "ditch switch" which would have sealed several small external vents so water wouldn't get in during a ditch; flipping the ditch switch came on the last page of the checklist, which he didn't get to when time ran out. I think Sully said later that the ditch switch wouldn't have really helped anyhow, the vents were so small.

All this talk about whether or not Sully is a hero is really rather pointless. He will always be a hero to the 150 people on that flight, and I'd say he is a hero in the eyes of the public. Compare him to that French crew whose plane went down in the Atlantic a few years ago on a flight from Brazil I think it was, I forget the exact flight number. One of the pilots kept the nose up on his joystick when they got repeated stall warnings, and the pilot just didn't seem to recognize the trouble they were in and what to do about it. Tragic. I have a feeling if Sully would have been the pilot on that flight, a very different outcome would have occurred.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

The word 'Hero' is so overused in American culture that the word is meaningless now.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

I disagree with your points entirely.
Whether he was or was not facing the same danger as the other passengers on the plane is irrelevant. In any event, heroes are to be found facing the same challenging or dangerous circumstances as those they save. In Sully's case he took the necessary precautions to avoid the dangerous fate that awaited him and his passengers if he hadn't.
Sully's entire conduct throughout the ordeal to land the damaged plane reflects in my opinion his willingness to risk and sacrifice whatever was necessary at the time to save the 155 souls, including his own life and reputation.
And he didn't act out of self-interest at all since his motivation was to save all the lives onboard his plane.
Further, by definition a "hero" can be one who is "noted for special achievement in a particular field" and Sully's landing the plane on water without any loss of life was and still remains a miraculous achievement!

I'll tell you who reflects those points you noted, however. The co-pilot of Germanwings Flight 9525, Andreas Lubitz, that's who! He acted entirely out of self-interest! He took no risk whatsoever and made zero sacrifices to help or save anyone onboard that doomed flight! He was actually the person responsible for placing everyone onboard that plane in danger and by his selfish actions slaughtered them! He is definitely not a hero by any measure.

Re: Just how is he a hero?


danrawlings:

The word 'Hero' is so overused in American culture that the word is meaningless now.


Agreed.

Sully himself said it- he didn't feel like a hero, just a guy who did his job. Like any good captain, he was the last person off the vessel. Not so much a hero, he was well-prepared from experience, conscientious, logical, and very lucky. It could have gone either way. In the final analysis, he really had no choice over what he did, except to do it the best he could. So, is doing one's best an act of heroism? Maybe.

Re: Just how is he a hero?

he kept a cool head under immense pressure

maybe that doesn't make him a hero but he is cool in my book

"Abortion is green!"
Doug Stanhope
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