Zootopia : Hypocritical

Hypocritical

Anybody else bothered by the fact that this film is intending to be about equality and condemn discrimination towards minorities, but then had the two leads (who were also the primary representatives of minorities in the film) were played by white people?

Re: Hypocritical

No, I wasn't bothered by that. I am myself White, and I stand by every message in Zootopia. Don't assume that all white people are discriminatory/for racial inequality; or scratch that, ANY person (as there are black separatist groups in the US as well). So no, the movie itself is not hypocritical, and while it does seem to contradict itself at times, at least we know that it will end up sticking to one thing unlike Donald Trump's politics.

Re: Hypocritical

I am white as well. It just struck me as an unfortunate oversight on the part of the filmmakers. They had a great chance to "practice what they preach," so to speak.

Re: Hypocritical


They had a great chance to "practice what they preach," so to speak.

While this is quite true I believe they also had a responsibility to both their audience and Disney's shareholders to find the best actors for the parts. I believe they fulfilled that responsibility quite well.

I'll agree with you though. That's a lot of white people, not just in 'Zootopia' but in a great many Disney movies as well. I'm all-for finding the best talent for the roles but I'll admit Disney could do well to look for talent within all ethnicities and backgrounds.

Michael Bay didn't ruin my childhood. My childhood happened more than twenty-five years ago.

Re: Hypocritical

I would say that speaks for the current status of Hollywood in general. There are many talented people out there that are not white, but it is still widely believed in the film industry that minorities don't sell well. They went with the standard selection instead of going the extra mile. I'm not saying this to criticize the performances - I generally liked them - but rather to criticize whoever made the decision to not step outside of the very box that their film is criticizing.

Re: Hypocritical

Be fair, the USA is over 3/4 white. That means that with random selection there is still an over 50% chance that any two given people will be white.

Also, stop being racist. You see an actor and all you can think of is the colour of their skin, how shallow and judgemental are you? Get yourself a little race-blindness you *beep* redneck.

Take them to the security kitchen!

Re: Hypocritical

I would LOVE to live in a society where race-blindness could be a reality, but to implement it now would be to ignore the very discrimination this film is attempting to fight (well, at least partially, since I think the film is trying to address the issues faced by all minorities, not just racial minorities).

Re: Hypocritical


I'm all-for finding the best talent for the roles but I'll admit Disney could do well to look for talent within all ethnicities and backgrounds

Moana says hi.

Re: Hypocritical

Moana is a literal representation of a human, and Disney would get ENORMOUS flack for not having a person of the correct ethnicity in the role. Besides they had to go through a year of casting calls all over the world to get a complete newcomer to get the voice for Moana. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3521164/trivia?item=tr2646031

That's because there aren't a ton of young Polynesian voice actresses out there right now. Dwayne Johnson was pretty easy to find, I imagine.

You can only "whitewash" a rabbit and a fox so far, especially when they aren't directly associated with any one minority. People in different countries saw them as different ones, I'm sure.

There is no objective reality... and that's Sucker Punch

Re: Hypocritical

You do realize the artists and animators on Zootopia are from practically every single race and represent many diffent counties, many were also female, and one of the directors is gay don't you?

Re: Hypocritical

This is actually one of the reasons the choice of lead actors stood out at all. It is clear that there are immensely talented people throughout Hollywood of all races, religions, sexualities, political opinions, gender identities, etc., yet they went with the "industry standard" for their choice of lead actors.

Re: Hypocritical

It's called cognitive dissonance. Look sh#t up.

Re: Hypocritical

Your reading way into this. Also the metaphors of the story can mean other things becides race relations to begin with.

Also I am multiracial. And personally could care less what color the actors were! The focus should always be on the story and what they were trying to say.

Re: Hypocritical

That's fair. Maybe I am reading too much into it.

As for the focus-on-the-story aspect, I really wish they DID focus more on the story. The film is amusing and fun, without question, but the plot is about as formulaic as you can get.

Re: Hypocritical

Maybe because they were the best actors chosen for the roles?

I know that's a difficult concept to understand for some people who need to find something to be outraged by.

Re: Hypocritical

I would disagree that Ginnifer Goodwin and Jason Bateman were the best possible choices for the roles. They both seem to be average as far as talent goes - likeable enough, but not putting forth any exceptional performances.

It would appear that I have misrepresented myself. I am not outraged at all. I was just disappointed that they didn't take advantage of an opportunity to, as I said earlier, practice what they preach.

Re: Hypocritical

But what does the two main voice actors being white have to do with the message of not being prejudice?

Re: Hypocritical

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XebG4TO_xss

I should emphasize that I am not saying these characters were whitewashed (as they were animals and, therefore, not directly representing any human nationality), but it was an opportunity for the creators to fight whitewashing by not having white actors play characters intended to represent minorities.

Re: Hypocritical

Judy isn't technically part of the minority in their universe.

Idris Elba plays Chief Bogo who is a prey and Jenny Slate plays Bellwether, so I seriously doubt they were thinking of race when casting characters.

Re: Hypocritical

The supporting cast is wonderfully diverse. Probably the most diverse I've seen in an animated film. I thought that was very well done. Which is why I was especially perplexed why they didn't take the same step for the leads.

I'm surprised you wouldn't classify Judy as a minority. It seemed pretty clear that she was being discriminated against for being a bunny.

Re: Hypocritical


I'm surprised you wouldn't classify Judy as a minority. It seemed pretty clear that she was being discriminated against for being a bunny.

That could have also been because she was a rookie on the force. She was also not native to Zootopia so she had a lot going against her besides being a bunny. She had to gain both experience and the respect of her peers.

Michael Bay didn't ruin my childhood. My childhood happened more than twenty-five years ago.

Re: Hypocritical

I would disagree with that based on the content of the film. They make it very clear that she is the first bunny on the force and that no one expects her to be able to succeed as a police officer and action is even taken to dissuade her from being an officer because she is a bunny. I agree that there is a lot going against her in addition to being a bunny, but I don't think it can be said that being a bunny played no role in how she is treated.

Re: Hypocritical

Yes! Exactly!
She's clearly NOT a minority so, as I see, the other animals just think she's not capable not cause she's a bunny but because she's small in comparison to others large animals, because she's young and way more propitious to make mistakes, and 'cause she's a rookie without any experience on her job.

She had to go through everything a young adult that's starting they productive life go. Leaving our parents house, getting our first job, standing on our own..

The ONLY animal we see being discriminated because of their race, is Nick, the fox.

Looks like the the op didn't watched the same movie as the rest of us...

Re: Hypocritical

Judy comes from bunny Burrough, where bunnies and prey are the majority and she moves to Zootopia where prey are the majority as well. She's discriminated against because she's small and in experienced and bunnies are stereotyped as being flightey and easily scared.

Many Predators are shown in positions of power and privilege based on their species stereotypes; Mayor Lionheart as the mayor (lions are symbols of leadership), police force is diverse with predator cops, government security are all wolves.

It's why the movie works more as a general theme of prejudice because everyone is prejudice and the predator/prey thing doesn't correlate 1:1 with humanity in real life.

Re: Hypocritical


bunnies are stereotyped as being flightey and easily scared.

Yes...is that not discrimination because she's a bunny?


everyone is prejudice and the predator/prey thing doesn't correlate 1:1 with humanity in real life.

I don't think that it correlates as predator/prey. Nick is discriminated against and foxes are predators. It is also stated that predators are only 10% of the population, so they are, in fact, one of the minorities in this world. It seems to be revolving around physical strength/power. So, while you can't point at certain characters and say, "that animal represents this people group and this animal represents that people group," I would still say that there are discriminations against certain animal minority races as there are against human minority races.

Re: Hypocritical

Judy is a minority in terms of being the only small animal on the police force, but that's it.

She's still part of the majority population of Zootopia and I doubt rabbits in that universe are a minority. You don't have to be part of a minority group to be discriminated against, that's the point.

Re: Hypocritical

In regards to this particular film, I respectfully disagree with your conclusions.

Re: Hypocritical

Which conclusions? It all sounded about right to me.

Michael Bay didn't ruin my childhood. My childhood happened more than twenty-five years ago.

Re: Hypocritical

"Judy is a minority in terms of being the only small animal on the police force, but that's it."

I would say that there's the general mentality towards small animals, but also specific ideas towards specific species. It's clear to me that not all small animal species are considered the same.

"She's still part of the majority population of Zootopia"

I don't think there is any indication of this unless you mean in the vaguest of terms - that she is not a predator.

"and I doubt rabbits in that universe are a minority."

They seem to be in Zootopia. I know there's plenty of bunnies elsewhere, but we don't see many in Zootopia itself. Granted, it's a large city that we only see a small fraction of, but we only have so much material to go on.

"You don't have to be part of a minority group to be discriminated against, that's the point."

I would say every group we see in the film being discriminated against is a minority. Hence why I respectfully disagree.

Re: Hypocritical

FishFu

Judy is a minority in terms of being the only small animal on the police force, but that's it.

fordprefect7

I would say that there's the general mentality towards small animals, but also specific ideas towards specific species. It's clear to me that not all small animal species are considered the same.

Judy IS a minority on the police force for being small, a bunny (the only bunny) AND a rookie. A rookie that oddly enough doesn't get a partner on her first day to show her the ropes.

FishFu

She's still part of the majority population of Zootopia

Whether we're talking about the city of Zootopia or the film itself I would say this is true. BunnyBurrow itself also had a huge population most likely consisting of a majority of prey animals due to there being little to nothing to keep their population/s in-check. A contributing factor would be the lack of natural predators because those predators can no longer reduce the numbers of prey animals . . . naturally.

FishFu

You don't have to be part of a minority group to be discriminated against, that's the point.

fordprefect7

I would say every group we see in the film being discriminated against is a minority. Hence why I respectfully disagree.

Well that's the thing. Judy is not part of a minority group, either because she is a rabbit or because rabbits are prey. She is part of a majority group, it's only when she separates from that group to become something else that she becomes the minority and a target for discrimination for any number of reasons. This can happen to anyone anywhere.

Michael Bay didn't ruin my childhood. My childhood happened more than twenty-five years ago.

Re: Hypocritical

"She is part of a majority group, it's only when she separates from that group to become something else that she becomes the minority and a target for discrimination for any number of reasons."

Just because a person is a part of a majority in one place doesn't mean they are a majority elsewhere. My wife grew up in Kenya, but is white. She was a minority in her home country for the majority of her childhood. However, now we live in the US. She is no longer a minority, but that doesn't mean she wasn't in Kenya. The fact that Judy becomes a minority doesn't mean she's not a real minority. I'm not sure how this is an argument against that.

Re: Hypocritical

I've seen discussion on the population of Bunny Burrows before. And I've always felt it's just a clever take on the human population! As being little to nothing to keeps certainly keeps human populations in-check.

Re: Hypocritical

Yes, that's what I was getting at. Natural prey populations. Rabbits breed like . . . well, rabbits. (Funny commercial here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlNk6rVK3dU ) It's quite similar to other types of prey animals like mice and rats. When predators can't keep them in-check this is what happens naturally. If it could happen to rabbits in Bunny Burrows then it could happen to any species anywhere else, including the big city of Zootopia.

Speaking solely on the rabbit population of the city of Zootopia it is both possible and very likely that Judy is in the minority. When it comes to the prey population of Zootopia it is more likely that she is in the majority.

Michael Bay didn't ruin my childhood. My childhood happened more than twenty-five years ago.

Re: Hypocritical

I guess it comes down to how specific you want to view the "categorization". Prey and predator vs. specific species.

I tend to go with the specific species because Nick seems to receive more discrimination because he's a fox that other predators don't receive (until later in the film, that is).

Re: Hypocritical

So if the movie was made in Kenya, would it be fine to have a white person play Judy since whites are a minority there?

Or is it only because it's an American produced film that it's an issue?

If your racial population status changes depending on where you go, why should it matter what race the actor is in a fictional movie about animals?

Idris Elba is a minority actor playing a character that is part of the majority population in the film, but it's not racially accurate either if we're assuming Zootopia is like America.

Re: Hypocritical

No, Judy belonged to the 90% of the population that was prey. Not a minority.

Re: Hypocritical

Yeah, we already agreed upon that between the post you are replying to and the post you made. 😃

"Eat your vegetables." Smith ~ 'Shoot 'Em Up' (2007)

Re: Hypocritical

Yes, but i didnt confirm yet i agreed as well. Pay attention

Re: Hypocritical

I've paid enough attention to know that at this point in time you've never contributed any statements or opinions in this thread, previous to this page or after, causing anyone to ever wonder whether or not you actually confirmed any stance or position ever mentioned in it.

But I guess you showed me. (slow clap)

"Eat your vegetables." Smith ~ 'Shoot 'Em Up' (2007)

Re: Hypocritical

I guess I did ;)

Re: Hypocritical

Why would that make a difference in literally any way... who cares...

Re: Hypocritical

Evidently not you. So why comment?

Re: Hypocritical

Because I felt like it.

Post deleted

This message has been deleted.

Re: Hypocritical

Oh, brother. It was a question intended to start a civil discussion - which has successfully happened up to this point. Go police the internet for people to get mad at for having different opinions from your own elsewhere.

Re: Hypocritical

I'd say that one advantage to using white leads for this particular story is that it doesn't tempt American audiences to associate certain species with the races of the actors. It sucks that white is still thought of as "default" by many Americans, but at least using white lead actors makes it easier to think about discrimination outside of the context of American society. The people who need to hear these messages would probably be turned off if they felt like it was another heavy-handed "White people are terrible" message like Pocahontas. Zootopia succeeds in getting white people to think about discrimination without wallowing in white guilt or getting defensive, and the white actors were probably part of that.
Plus, Big Hero 6 had an Asian lead and a diverse cast-both in terms of actors and characters- without discussing race at all. To me diverse casting in movies like that is even more important than in a movie about race like Zootopia.

Re: Hypocritical

That's a very good point, actually. It's a sad reality when filmmakers would have to make that casting choice to help make their film's message more available to the general public...

Re: Hypocritical

The fact that you're calling the movie out because the lead voice actors were white means you missed the point altogether (and contradicted yourself). If there is truly no discrimination, and you don't discriminate, why do you care if they are white? Saying that they must be of another ethnicity is like saying all white people are discriminatory, which ironically is discrimination (not to mention utter horescrap 😃)

The North Remembers!

Re: Hypocritical

I never said there is no discrimination. The film tackles a very worthy subject: everyone discriminates. The issue with choosing white actors was not that those actors are discriminating against others by taking those roles, but rather that they are the default choice when it would seem prudent for the filmmakers to "practice what they preach", so to say. However, if you read the earlier comments in this thread, 'cellomonkey' makes a very good point as to why this may have, unfortunately, been a necessary choice.

Re: Hypocritical

Part of the reasons for the choices for rolls in Disney & PIXAR films:

1) The voice actors fit the character drawings and personalities

2) They're usually not A-list celebrities who would expect/demand a huge salary
Top