Star Wars: The Force Awakens : If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Re: Wrong--Years between movies

How was Luke an awesome Jedi Master? Even with training he got his ass kicked by Vader and Palpatine. Vader could obviously have killed him easy if he had wanted and Palpatine pretty much laughed at him.
At least Luke had Yoda to instruct him and had Vader's force potential.

Re: Wrong--Years between movies


How was Luke an awesome Jedi Master? Even with training he got his ass kicked by Vader and Palpatine.


Hmmm. I seem to remember it was Vader who got his ass kicked, and his hand cut off. The Emperor could have killed him, that's true. The same Emperor who killed four Jedi Knights, including Mace Windu, in about 5 minutes and who beat Yoda's ass and made him crawl away like a little bitch.

Luke beat one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever with a few months (AT BEST) training. So I'd say he was a pretty powerful Jedi.

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Re: Wrong--Years between movies

max-taffery wrote:

Luke beat one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever with a few months (AT BEST) training.

Is it "a few months"? I've never been quite clear on the chronology of SW, but, as I understand it:

ANH: Luke receives a day - hours? - of training from Obi-Wan Kenobi, during their trip to Alderaan. During his training, he's able, while "blind-folded", to deflect some shots from a training droid with his lightsaber. After witnessing Kenobi being struck down by Vader, he can hear the former's "voice"; and during the Battle of Yavin - a day or two later? - Kenobi again guides Luke to use the force and make the direct hit on the Death Star exhaust port. While impressive, this shot has also already nearly been made by another pilot, while Luke himself only escapes being killed in a dogfight until Wedge intervenes; and while Vader comments on how strong Luke is with the force, he is about to land a direct hit on Luke's X-wing until he is fired upon by Han Solo.

ESB: Set approximately two-three years after ANH (I'm assuming the length of time between the events depicted in the films is the same as the length of time passing between the release of the films). Initially, Luke shows only a slightly stronger affinity with the Force; controlling himself, he can telekinetically seize his lightsaber, and can see Kenobi's spirit rather than just hear his voice. Following the latter's guidance again, Luke goes to Dagobah, where, after failing to impress Yoda, is nevertheless accepted as his pupil.

How long does Luke's initial training on Dagobah take? It's long enough for the Emperor to become aware of "a great disturbance in the Force", and long enough for Vader to anticipate (also with the Force?) Han and Leia's trip to Cloud City, so that he has laid a trap before they arrive.

Before flying to Cloud City, Han and his crew (or partners!) have bided their time in the Millenium Falcon. Is this days, weeks or months? I'm not sure why, and I can't recall if it's supported by the novelisation, but I'm inclined to the latter.

After intensive training, and having gained an even greater knowledge of the Force, Luke flies to Cloud City, where he duels Vader. Throughout the duel, while Luke gets in some decent strikes - leaping from the carbonite chamber, eliciting an "Impressive...most impressive" from Vader, driving him back after a furious flurry, nicking Vader's arm just before losing his own hand - Luke is largely overpowered, and there's a strong sense that Vader is taking the measure of a promising apprentice, rather than being truly tested by a worthy opponent.

ROTJ: As with ANH and ESB, I'm going to assume that screen-time matches real-time, so, again, it's some two-three years later. Further assumption - having lost to Vader, Luke has returned to Dagobah and received further training from Yoda, although he does not raise the issue of his parentage. Having rescued Han, Luke returns to Dagobah, where he receives the confirmation that Vader is his father, and the shock that Leia is his sister.

Fighting Vader for the second time, Luke seems far more the dominant dueller, although it's unclear if Vader is fighting to win, or if he's been instructed to lose (does the novelisation make this clear? I seem to recall that Vader is fighting his hardest, and is at first impressed, then angry, to realise how powerful Luke has grown. Skirting with the Dark Side, Luke severs his father's hand, and has him at his mercy, before realising the path he's travelling. Rejecting the Dark Side, he is struck down by Palpatine, and is saved by his father.

So - we're looking at:

ANH: Oh, let's say a day.
ESB: Six months? This might allow for any guidance Kenobi's spirit may have intermittently imparted onto Luke between ANH and ESB (again, speculation, which I'm not sure is supported by EU?).
ROTJ (or the period between ESB and ROTJ): Two-three years.

So - roughly two and a half to three and a half years training, most of which would have been intensive, and under a legendary Jedi Master - does that seem about right?

It's also been established that the Skywalker family have a natural, and strong, affinity with the force. It's also notable that while Luke is seen as being prodigiously gifted, his victories in ANH are only just made, and with the crucially timed help of others; ESB indicates what the potential Luke has, but also shows how far he's still got to go to achieve it; and while ROTJ shows how powerful Luke has become so that he can defeat Vader, it notably also shows how helpless he is against the Emperor.

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Re: Wrong--Years between movies


ANH: Oh, let's say a day.
ESB: Six months? This might allow for any guidance Kenobi's spirit may have intermittently imparted onto Luke between ANH and ESB (again, speculation, which I'm not sure is supported by EU?).
ROTJ (or the period between ESB and ROTJ): Two-three years.

So - roughly two and a half to three and a half years training, most of which would have been intensive, and under a legendary Jedi Master - does that seem about right?


Well it sounds good, until you think about it more. First according to [url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_canon_media#js]Star Wars canon[/url] 3 years passed between ANH and ESB, and 1 year between ESB and ROTJ. The interesting thing is that Luke grows much more in his skills between ESB and ROTJ in 1 year than he did in the 3 years between ANH and ESB.

Again, he couldn't have got much training from Obi-Wan's ghost, because Obi-Wan is a very capable trainer yet in three years Luke was barely able to use the Force to retrieve his lightsaber. And Yoda states that he's too old to BEGIN the training, implying he hadn't received any yet. How long he spent with Yoda on Dagobah? Unclear. Han and Leia arrived at Cloud City wearing the same clothes they left Hoth in - Leia was wearing her cold weather outfit. I mean, I guess if that's all they had that's all they had, but they looked pretty good after being cooped up in the Falcon for months! And what about Boba Fett? Did he have to follow them the whole way in his little ship? The whole trip opens up so many problems, since we know in reality, sub-light travel between star systems would literally take thousands of years not months. Any how, let's be generous, set all that aside and say the trip took 6 months.

At the end of ESB, Lando and Chewbacca take off for Tatooine to find Jabba, and Luke says he'll meet them at the rendezvous point on Tatooine. So he didn't get any training from Yoda during that period. Then in ROTJ, after they destroy Jabba and rescue Han, Luke says he needs to go to Dagobah to keep a promise to an old friend (his promise to Yoda that he would complete his training). Once he gets to Dagobah, Yoda just tells him he doesn't need anymore training (WTF?). All he has to do is confront Vader. Then Yoda dies. So no more training from Yoda except what he got in the ESB.

So here's my revised times:

ANH: Oh, let's say a day.
ESB: Six months? This might allow for any guidance Kenobi's spirit may have intermittently imparted onto Luke between ANH and ESB
ROTJ (or the period between ESB and ROTJ): Nothing

So we're at a (very) generous 6 months for Luke to have become a Jedi capable of beating Darth Vader, who was trained since he was an annoying 10 year old kid.

Re: Wrong--Years between movies

max-taffey wrote:

Well it sounds good, until you think about it more. First according to [url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_canon_media#js]Star Wars canon[/url] 3 years passed between ANH and ESB, and 1 year between ESB and ROTJ. The interesting thing is that Luke grows much more in his skills between ESB and ROTJ in 1 year than he did in the 3 years between ANH and ESB.

Thanks for the url - I was trying to find the "Star Wars" timeline on Wikipedia, but, for some reason, I couldn't!

I'm surprised that, officially, it's only one year between ESB and ROTJ? Particularly given how the cast have so notably aged!

Isn't there a year between ESB and ROTJ, though, presumably in which Luke does receive further training from Yoda? The impression I got from ROTJ is that the rebels have bided their time, hatching a plan to rescue Han (while undertaking other rebellious activities), and that Luke has used this time to further his training.

It surely can't be the case, after all, that the Yoda who warns Luke that his training is incomplete in ESB would, with >no further training, then tell Luke in ROTJ that his training is virtually complete, and will be over once he faces Vader again.

So we're looking at about a year and a half training, much of it intensive and under a great Jedi Master. After (say) six months, Luke is able to put up a reasonable fight to Vader, without posing any real threat; and after a further year, he's able to overcome Vader in their second duel, although it's unclear (or is it made clear in the novelisation?) if Vader is truly fighting to win, or if he's been commanded to repeatedly provoke Luke so that the latter will turn to the dark side (even if this means that Vader will then fall before his son's fury).

www.jumpedtheshark.co.uk

Re: Wrong--Years between movies


Isn't there a year between ESB and ROTJ, though, presumably in which Luke does receive further training from Yoda?


In ESB, Luke leaves Dagobah, and makes a promise to Yoda that he'll come back to complete the training. At the end of ESB he says he'll meet Lando and Chewie on Tatooine. When he leaves Tatooine in ROTJ he says he's going back to Dagobah to keep his promise to Yoda. When he sees Yoda on Dagobah and Yoda tells him he's dying, Luke says, "But I need your help. I've come back to complete the training." Yoda dies. So no, he didn't ever receive any more training from Yoda beyond what we saw in ESB.

Re: Wrong--Years between movies

max-taffey wrote:

In ESB, Luke leaves Dagobah, and makes a promise to Yoda that he'll come back to complete the training. At the end of ESB he says he'll meet Lando and Chewie on Tatooine. When he leaves Tatooine in ROTJ he says he's going back to Dagobah to keep his promise to Yoda. When he sees Yoda on Dagobah and Yoda tells him he's dying, Luke says, "But I need your help. I've come back to complete the training." Yoda dies. So no, he didn't ever receive any more training from Yoda beyond what we saw in ESB.

There is a year between ESB and ROTJ (which I'm still surprised by, but there you go!). At the end of the former, Luke's training is incomplete; the Force may be with him, but he is "not a Jedi yet". By the middle of the latter, Luke's informed by Yoda that he does not need any further training, and that he knows "that which he needs" (or something like that); although, when a stunned Luke exhales that he is a Jedi, Yoda retorts that he has one - but only one - test remaining; he must face Vader.

So how has Luke progressed from gifted apprentice to actual Jedi? What did he do for that year? Either he taught himself for a year, or found another master to continue his training...or he returned to Yoda to continue, and virtually complete, his training, suppressing his knowledge of Vader's shattering revelation. The first doesn't make any sense, the second is as impossible - so it must be the third.

It's unfair to nitpick and find plot-holes in the continuity of "Star Wars", as it's generally acknowledged to be haphazard, not simply between the OT and the PT, but between the films that make up the OT; Vader changing from the evil pupil who slew Luke's father to being Luke's father, leading to the "point of view" nonsense of ROTJ being the biggest example. It doesn't make logical sense that Luke would learn that Vader was his father, keep the news to himself, return to Yoda, continue his training, help save Han, then, after having succeeded, returned to a dying Yoda and finally ask him the truth - but it's the least bad option.

www.jumpedtheshark.co.uk

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Re: Wrong--Years between movies

ha ha

Re: Wrong--Years between movies

I don't think that's really cold weather gear. She only wore it inside. And inside Luke wore his Tatooine garb and Han wore his traditional vest.

They may not have had time to pack other clothes, but could have advanced cleaning systems on board to clean clothes quickly. Obviously we never see the bathroom on the Millennium Falcon either. I can only imagine the flirtation that might've gone on if Leia was naked while cleaning her clothes.

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)


Uhhhh... Luke got a brief overview of the force from Obi-Wan when they first meet, a session with the light saber during the trip to Alderaan, and some hang time with Yoda, that couldn't have amounted to more than a couple hours. Not exactly the years of trading that we're told is required to truly master the force.

The films greatly imply (Luke's changing and waring clothes etc) that the training time is much longer, probably at least weeks.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

The comment said:

"the moment Luke meets Obi-Wan to the time he leaves Dagobah for Bespin"

Watch "The Empire Strikes Back" again. Luke departs from Hoth for Degobah at the same time the Millennium Falcon leaves Hoth for Bespin to find Lando and get the hyperdrive fixed. Luke leaves Degobah to rescue his friends on Bespin and arrives just after Han is frozen in carbonite. So were Han, Leia, Chewie and 3P0 guests of Lando's for weeks? Nope. Vader and the stormtroopers were already waiting there for them.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

But without a hyper dive how long did it take for them to get to bespin? I have read anywhere from 3 to 5 weeks.

I am a legend in my spare time

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

I know this is just sarcasm, but it seems like you really have something about guys being powerful and being stand-alone protagonists in a movie. I'm surprised you'd try to tarnish a rare role model for young boys to be able to look up to. It's Science Fiction Fantasy for god's sake. It's okay that it's fantastic! It's not inconceivable that Luke has these talents. There's still two more films that will probably explain where all his talents came from. People don't understand that this would be a setup film to have a foundation for later films to explain things. The original trilogy itself had many questions answered later. With films like Mocking Jay, it's kind of fair for boys to have a protagonist that is inspirational. I think you should really look at yourself and consider the possibility that your opinions are kind of sexist against guys.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

golf clap

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

thanks, not even OP got it. hahaha

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

😢😢😢

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Not sure if serious... 😕

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

I hope South Park spoofs this so we can post it for the TFA fanboys

I assume most of them don't like to read.

==========
"Go wait on a planet and stare at things."
"STFU Jar Jar!"

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Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

It's not good filmmaking to spend an entire movie making your main character "mysterious" which by definition makes her impossible to relate to. That's an epic screenwriting fail.

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

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Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)


It's not good filmmaking to spend an entire movie making your main character "mysterious" which by definition makes her impossible to relate to. That's an epic screenwriting fail.


Because if you knew how the character got her fantastic powers, you could relate to her? Why? Do you you have secret powers?

You relate to characters on the human level that you can appreciate. In Rey's case you relate to her sense of abandonment, uncertainty, fear. You can relate to and appreciate how bad it would be to be a child and be left alone. You can relate to how frightening it would be to be confronted with sudden change, and to realize how much ahead of you (and in her case the past) is unknown.

Other examples of bad filmmaking:
Casablanca
A Fistful of Dollars
Entire James Bond franchise
Drive

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Rey is slightly relatable at the beginning because she's a poor, lonely scrapper, although even there she exhibits some great climbing skills. But that all goes out the window really quickly. Not many people can relate to being abandoned as a child by their entire family, so that doesn't help much.

As for how supposedly frightened she is at her sudden change, you're just making that up because the character never shows it. She doesn't show any emotion whatsoever in reaction to the mind trick, grabbing the saber, winning the saber fight. She becomes a blank slate with a blank stare. And that's part of how the entire third act of the movie goes totally off the rails into horrible storytelling. I think the reaction of Peter Parker in Spider-Man is much more relatable, that he's at first confused, clumsy and then mostly excited at his new powers. Rey simply has no reaction at all. And she's missing the huge component of actually figuring out how to use these powers. She just knows how to do it out of nowhere. Whether it's explained later or not, it makes her unrelatable in this movie.

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Well said.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)



Ok! I guess that you have to tell that to a lot of writers of scripts and romances. Funny, because i always loved mysterious characters.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Excelent!! Saving post, retweeted!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Bump for great justice.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Posting to save this thread!

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Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

This needs another bump.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Amazing post! Bump!!!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

.

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It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

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Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Bumpity bump.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

This still confuses people for some reason.

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Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)



*Luke is an expert survivalist living on his own in Tatooine. He isn't subservient to Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru. He loyally waits for a lost companion to return.


Its a good thing Luke isnt an expert XWing combatant and sharpshooter who was merely a farmer.



Luke steals R2-D2 from a Tusken Raider on a Bantha who has captured R2-D2. The Tusken just watches and rides away.


Well its a good thing Rey didnt steal BB8 from a Tusken Raider on a bantha, but rather a 3 ft tall Jawa-like dude on a slow moving goofy alien cow.



Luke can understand everything R2-D2 says. C-3PO is written out since he's not needed to translate.


Its a shame Luke was only a farmer.
If he were a scavenger and a trader who interracted and traded with several different species and droids he may have picked up their lingo.



R2-D2 follows Luke around obediently instead of running away and generally just thinks Luke's awesome.


thats 3POs job.



Luke meets Obi-Wan and tells him he's just a nobody and didn't even know the Force was real.


Could you imagine if Luke told Obi wan he didnt even know what the force was??
That would have been strange considering the the Jedi Knights protected the galaxy for hundreds of years.



Obi-Wan hands Luke his father's saber and then disappears from the movie. No training required.


I liked the part where Luke had no X-Wing combat training (aside from shootIng some redents on Tattoonr) and managed to outmaneuver dozens of tie fighters, evade fire from 20 towers , and made a one in a million shot with only five lines of force training from Ben.




Luke experiences a "vision" upon touching the saber for unexplained reasons. Magic lightsaber?


yeah thats ridiculous...its not as though its a magic cave that lets you experience visions on Dagobah.
(Bty, how is this a Mary Sue moment?)




Luke enters the Cantina and knocks down Ponda Baba and Dr. Evazan with a stick when they threaten him.


Yeah, Luke shouldnt have been able to do that...he was just a farmer. Its not as though he was a scavenger living on his own who had to grow up learning how to defend himself.




Luke finds the Falcon with only Chewie inside as TIE Fighters start bombing the area. He jumps in and flies it with some wild maneuvers through Beggar's Canyon while Chewie works the gun port. They destroy the TIEs and return to get Han.


And Luke didnt even bounce the the falcon off the ground or almost crash either!!



Chewie is injured while running from Stormtroopers to get to the Falcon and Luke takes over as co-pilot.


I thought Luke took over as the expert gunner on the falcon's cannons when they escaped the dethstar?
No, i must be mistaken...that would have been ridiculous.



Luke fixes the Falcon's malfunctions by himself before Han can figure out what to do.


Yeah Han clearly knew that Plutt put a device on the falcon that effected the hyperdrive...after all, Han was on the falcon longer than Luke.



Han is so impressed with Luke that by the time they get to the remains of Alderaan, he offers Luke a permanent job.


could have been worse though...Han could have offered luke a job on the Falcon because he was "good in a fight" despite being pushed around by two drunk aliens in Mos Eisley.



They sneak into the back door of the Death Star unnoticed and somehow instantly find Leia's cell.


Yeah its not as though they had a former stormtrooper who knew the layout.
Btw i thought this was about Luke/ray Mary Sue moments?


Btw, in case it went over some peoples heads, that was sarcasm that doesnt take away from the greatness if ANH.
I find it funny that thi thread was about Luke/Rey mary sue moments and the poster took it upon himself to toss in elements that had nothing to do with Luke or Rey.
Loved the Tusken Raider comparison, even though Rey did not take BB8 from a tusken raider. Lol









Luke uses the Jedi Mind Trick on the guards at Leia's cell to get inside. (First time the Jedi Mind Trick appears in the movie.)


Yeah it would have been better if Luke pulled his lightsaber out of the snow after being attacked by a Wampa, even though no one was around to tell him he could move things with the force.
(first time the force is shown moving objects ever in a Star Wars film)



Leia says Luke is amazing, thanks him and won't stop talking about wanting to run away with him and devote herself to helping him. Luke is not interested and says he just wants to be friends.


Im sorry, we were discussing Mary Sue moments With Luke, not Leia, ight?


Han somehow instantly finds the head Stormtrooper Commander and says he'll kill him if he doesn't shut down the tractor beam. The Stormtrooper Commander complies and they throw him in the trash compactor


I thought this was Mary Sue stuff with Luke and Rey?


Darth Vader finds the heroes. Luke watches as Han Solo confronts Darth Vader and is killed.


Yeah that was awful..could you imagne how much worse it would have been if Luke was standing closer, with a blaster, and watched Obi wan confront Vader...and watched Vader Kill Obi Wan!?




Luke attacks Darth Vader and holds his own. He drops his saber but he is able to Force grab it before Vader can. (First time Force grab is seen in the movie.)


It would have been far more believable if Luke outmaneuvered Vaders targeting during the trench run instead..vader only has 40 years force experience over Luke anyways...its not as though Vader has as much experience as Kylo Ren.




Vader offers to train Luke. Luke lands several blows on Vader and cuts off his hand while remaining unscathed and Vader collapses in a heap.


yeah its not as though Vader had just been injured by a blow from a Bowcaster. Lol



But there is an explosion that ruptures the platform between them and Luke must join Leia, Chewie and R2 back on the Falcon.


Yeah rupturing platforms never happene when a planet is colllapsing.




Meanwhile, Wedge leads a small squad to do a bombing run on the Death Star. He easily hits the target without facing much resistance or even thinking about it much and the Death Star blows up.



Its a good thing this isnt a Luke/Rey Mary Sue moment. Whew!
Its probably just an error on your part. Im sure you wouldnt try to bloat up your argument with issues that have nothing to do with Mary Sue moments.


Luke officially joins the Rebellion at the end of the movie and is instantly selected to pilot a ship on a vital mission they've been waiting years to do. Their best pilot who just blew up the Death Star, Wedge, is passed over.


Yeah Wedge was far more qualified!
After all the lightsaber called to Wedge, not Luke.
its not as though luke would have even been qualified to even lead an attack against a deathstar anyways....he was just a farmer.


Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Luke flies T-16s and it's established he's not such a bad pilot. Plus he inherited some piloting skill from his father, the best star pilot in the galaxy.

Can Jawas not defend their own droids? Of course they can, with guns. If you're on a giant animal, you can direct the animal to chase a human being.

Luke interacted with droids ALL THE TIME on his farm, yet couldn't talk to them. That kind of silly crap only happens in nonsense, kiddie sci-fi.

I established that Rey, like Luke, said she didn't know about the Force. That begs the question of how she learns the Force powers out of nowhere, unlike Luke, who trained.

Luke was saved from being shot down by several other pilots including Han. He also wasn't picked to lead the Death Star assault. Other superior pilots were and attempted firing into the exhaust port before him.

If objects magically call to you that have no effect on anyone else, you might be a Mary Sue.

Did the aliens Rey knocked down not also have to scavenge and defend themselves their whole lives? Why is she powerful enough to take out two of them with a stick?

"Almost" crashing doesn't count. If you almost crash a ship and then are sent to pilot it later that day on the most important mission in years for the Resistance even when they have experienced pilots like Poe, you might be a Mary Sue.

Han gave Luke a lot of hell until he actually got to know him and see he could fight. Characters are supposed to become friendly as the movie wraps up, not instantly at the beginning when they first meet.

"Layout" didn't help them find Phasma or especially Rey. It was sheer magic that they ended up in the same location on a space station 10 times the size of the DS.

Luke had 3 years to study the Force before he pulled out the saber. And we don't know what Obi-Wan's spirit told him during that time. It's implied Luke pushed the torpedoes into the DS with the Force, so that is moving objects.

You clearly don't understand what a Mary Sue is. When every other character loves you instantly, you're a Mary Sue.

Vader had targetted Luke, but Han saved him.

Silly of you to nitpick my mentioning other plot points that are necessary to explain the Mary Sue moments described in the next statements.

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Bump

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Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)


Luke flies T-16s and it's established he's not such a bad pilot. Plus he inherited some piloting skill from his father, the best star pilot in the galaxy.


Rey uses a quarterstaff and its established she pretty good at combat. Plus, her time spent living on her own justifies her combat skills.



Can Jawas not defend their own droids? Of course they can, with guns. If you're on a giant animal, you can direct the animal to chase a human being.


1- first if all, thanks for admitting you lied about Rey going up against a Tusken Raider.
2- she didnt go up against a Jawa. She want up against a jawa-like creature that was the same size.
3- the creature did not have a gun. He had a staff.
4- even if it was a Jawa gun, Jawa guns are used to incapacitate droids and machinery.


Luke interacted with droids ALL THE TIME on his farm, yet couldn't talk to them. That kind of silly crap only happens in nonsense, kiddie sci-fi.


Really?
Describe all the droids that were on Lukes farm before he got R2 ans 3po.
It seems to me the only droid they had was a treadwell droid and im not even sure that made it to the final cut of the film.


established that Rey, like Luke, said she didn't know about the Force. That begs the question of how she learns the Force powers out of nowhere, unlike Luke, who trained.


Rey never said she didnt know about the force.
As a matter of fact she clearly made it known that she knew about Jedi knoghts and seemed to be a fan of Luke's.
Seeing that she knows about jedi its only common sense that she would know about the jedi mind trick.
Luke, on the other hand, is the one who was clueless about the force when Obi Wan mentioned it.
He had to explain it to him and had to explain who the jedi knights were.


Luke was saved from being shot down by several other pilots including Han. He also wasn't picked to lead the Death Star assault.


Watch the film again, pal.
Vader targets all the other SUPERIOR pilots within 3 seconds, and takes them out with his first burst of shots.
It takes Vader about a minute to target luke the first time and when he fires he hits R2.
The second, and final time, he targets luke it also takes about a minute and then he fires and missed BEFORE Han Solo fires.
Luke takes his shot right after that.
So, Luke, who had about 5 minutes of training with 5 lines of advice from Obi Wan was able to outmaneuver a Sith lord who has 40 years of force experience over Luke, and was ALSO considered the "best Star pilot in the galaxy".




Other SUPORIOR pilots were and attempted firing into the exhaust port before him.


So, out of the 30 SUPERIOR pilots Luke was one of the 3 that survived and he was the one that destroyed the deathstar.
Mary Sue anyone?
Thanks for making that so easy.



If objects magically call to you that have no effect on anyone else, you might be a Mary Sue


Well, I guess Lukes a Mary Sue since that cave on Dagobah called to him.
Btw, wheres this particular rule in the Mary Sue handbook?



Did the aliens Rey knocked down not also have to scavenge and defend themselves their whole lives? Why is she powerful enough to take out two of them with a stick?




Who said they were scanvengers?
Who said they had to defend themselves their whole lives?
Was it mentioned in the film that those two guys were scavengers who grew up with no parents or guardians to protect them?



Almost" crashing doesn't count.


According to who? You? Lol


If you almost crash a ship and then are sent to pilot it later that day on the most important mission in years for the Resistance even when they have experienced pilots like Poe, you might be a Mary Sue.


If you're bouncing a ship all over the place its a clear sign youre having issues controlling it.
If you saw someone driving down the street hitting street signs and knocking over garbage cans are you going to call them a Mary Sue?
As for the mission, the rebellion had no trouble sending a farmer on the most important mission in ANH.



Han gave Luke a lot of hell until he actually got to know him and see he could fight. Characters are supposed to become friendly as the movie wraps up, not instantly at the beginning when they first meet.


"Instantly"?
seems to me Han wasnt very fond of either of them when he found them on the Falcon and threatened to dump them off somewhere.


"Layout" didn't help them find Phasma or especially Rey. It was sheer magic that they ended up in the same location on a space station 10 times the size of the DS


Maybe you should pay attention to the movie, hammer-head.
Starkiller wasnt a space station. It was a planet with the weapon built into it.
The entire planet was not a base. The control center was a building on the planet and the control center was much smaller than the deathstar. Finn knew the loaction of the building.

Were you too stupid to notice there was snow, trees, mountains, cliffs and an atmosphere?
Did that not tip you off that it was a planet and not a space station?
I thought you haters were supposed to be so smart?


uke had 3 years to study the Force before he pulled out the saber. And we don't know what Obi-Wan's spirit told him during that time. It's implied Luke pushed the torpedoes into the DS with the Force, so that is moving objects.


Thats right, we dontt know what Ben taught him or if ben even spoke to him until the Wampa incident. As such, you cannot use that as justfication because its just conjecture.
What we do know is that ben appeared after the wampa incident and then told Luke to get training from Yoda.
Why would ben train Luke as a ghost for 3 years and then send him to Yoda?
It Ben was training him as a ghost why didnt he just finish the training himself?

As for Luke using the force to push the torpedos into the deathstar, thats just a fan theory...but if you insist on using that theory then it makes Luke even more of a Mary Sue at the end of ANH.


You clearly don't understand what a Mary Sue is. When every other character loves you instantly, you're a Mary Sue


And you clearly have ADD Since you cant even understand the movie.
Rey didnt fight a tusken Raider, Starkiller base was a planet with a weapon not a space station, bouncing a ship all over the place is not a sign of perfection, Luke didnt have a fleet of droids on his farm, Luke was the only one clueless about the force, etc...at least now we know who the true star wars fans are.

As for Mary Sue, i know exactly what it is...its a meaningless trope invented by some trekkie nobody some 40 years ago that was unearhted about a month ago and adopted by desperate idiotic haters who didnt even know what it was until flop writer, Max Landis, brought it up.



Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

You only need to post your replies once. My reply to your other copy of it is here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2488496/board/nest/252049846?p=6&d=252718064#252718064

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

The length the uber-SW-fanboys go to defend their precious childhood favs is amazing and endearing in its silliness.

"waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah Luke was not a superhero. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah Anakin was not a superhero. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah they are nothing like Rey" even though she accomplished less epic things (death star, mothership) than they did in their first movies she is still much more of a silly superhero. *stomps foot* waaaaaaaaaaaaah"

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)


You only need to post your replies once.


i dont "need" to do anything.
Seeing that your OP is riddled with moronic conflated claims, mistakes regarding details in the films, hypocrissy and blatant bias, im going to continue to repost my previous responses as many times as i see fit so that everyone can see your arguments fall apart.

Youre a hypocrite who doesnt even know simple details about the new film, or original SW films, and uses these detail mistakes to pontificate about this Mary Sue nonsense .


Heres a blatant example of your hypocrissy for everyone to see-

-First you suggest Rey went up against a Tusken Raider to get BB8.

-After its proven that Rey went up against a 3ft tall Jawa-like alien, you push the goal post back and claim "but jawas have guns"

-When its proven the the small alien was carrying a staff, rather than a gun, and that the guns jawas carry were ion blasters that only incapacitate machinery you push the goalpost back further and simply claIm the little alien "can still attack her".

-Then, you claim that Jakku is peaceful because this iittle alien allowed Rey to take BB8 without fighting her, thus further destroying your claim that she went up against a violent tusken raider.



So, your argument went from -

Rey taking BB8 away from a violent, 6 ft, armed tusken raider.

To-

rey taking BB8 away from a peaceful 3 ft tall alien.



Your credibility has been destroyed, pal.





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