Star Wars: The Force Awakens : If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Fantastic. This thread should be pinned to this board

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

No one in the movie thought she was nerdy, pushy or arrogant. They kept falling in love with her and offering her jobs.

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

On balance she is a useful person to have around and can solve problems very quickly, so her expertise shines forth and impresses Han (though he doesn't admit that she really impresses him, which he thinks if he did admit it she might then run roughshod over him and he doesn't want that - he's the boss on the Falcon). I also think he knows she is an innocent caught up in a bigger war and feels sympathy for her, so all up he's not opposed to her. But I think you would agree that she treats Finn a bit roughly who is a bit hopeless because he possesses no immediately valuable practical skills to help her when she needs it. So she is mite pushy and mentally highly focussed.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)


*Leia says Luke is amazing, thanks him and won't stop talking about wanting to run away with him and devote herself to helping him. Luke is not interested and says he just wants to be friends.


Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

That's my favorite contrast too I think. And it gets to the heart of the "feminist" motivation behind this character. The feminists have been obsessed with "not needing a man" since they got started half a century ago. IRL, we all know most women are desperate to get a boyfriend or get married. But feminists feel the need to construct fiction to counteract that.

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Get Em!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Very nice, it's like if Anakin were to beat Darth Maul in Ep 1.

You could also put in there that they meet Yoda, who is not force sensitive, but tells Luke that he has the force and needs to use it.

With the force grab, he doesn't grab it before Vader, he actually overpowers him as Luke is stronger with the force.

Darth Vader also keeps his helmet off for half the movie.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Well, meeting Obi-Wan here is the ANH equivalent of meeting Yoda or Mas.

True on the grabbing, but I was trying to keep this short and the competing grabs are difficult to explain.

I didn't really want to get distracted too much by getting into Vader/Kylo parallels. So I tried to stick to stuff directly related to Rey/Luke's character. And, honestly, Vader's face in ROTJ is kind of creepy and he might've been able to be unmasked while remaining a scary character.

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Fair point, I like the post.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Hey, that was pretty good! A well-done Mary Sue rewrite. And of course it all sounds hideous. I hope I never see a "Star Wars" movie like that...

Oh wait...

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

But if we just lather a lot of pretty, shiny special effects onto every scene, it could still work.

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

It is bonkers that you spent so much time on such a useless post.

You weren't even making points about how Rey was a 'Mary Sue.' You were just describing literally every scene that Rey was in, and replacing Luke's name. That was garbage.

And how ridiculous is it that Rey used the Force so quickly! It's not like Luke used the force to block lasers with his eyes closed 5 minutes after he learns about the force, and destroys the Death Star with his eyes closed using expert flight techniques on a ship he'd never driven before! Oh wait

I can do it the other way too.

If Rey was Luke..
- she would have gotten to heroically save a captured rebel and then gotten a smooch from him.
- She would have gotten to fly the x wing into battle even though she'd never ridden one before.
- she would have gotten to destroy the super weapon herself, with her eyes closed!
- she would have gotten a medal from a prince at the end!

Meaningless garbage.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Almost everything I described was an ANH scene. So you're confirming the whole ANH remake status of TFA at least.

Obi-Wan, an established expert Jedi master and former warrior, directly instructed Luke in using the Force every single time he used it in ANH. And other than the two times you mentioned it, I don't think Luke used it at any other times.

Let's keep in mind the whole point of the movie was that Luke evolves to be able to make that Death Star shot. It's the exact same character arc as in Karate Kid, where the whole movie leads up to Daniel making the final crane kick to win the tournament. You're asked to accept just one extraordinary achievement by this character. You care if the hero succeeds, because he starts out as we all did, as a flawed creature struggling to learn its place in the world.

Luke didn't save the Princess by himself, he had help from Han and Chewie. Then the droids have to rescue him from the trash compactor to complete the rescue. Luke may have got a smooch but Finn was ready to have Rey's babies. And I believe Rey did save Finn's life at times.

She got to fly the Falcon at the end of the movie even though she hadn't flown it before the movie started.

If we're talking overall movie quality, Poe got to destroy the Death Star and he was the movie's supporting Mary Sue.

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Um, what? "Almost everything I described was an ANH scene. So you're confirming the whole ANH remake status of TFA at least."

No... Literally every scene you mentioned was from TFA but you replaced Luke's name... You "revised" every part of Luke's story and replaced it with what happened to Rey in TFA. (Luke being a survivalist like Rey, Chewie getting injured like in TFA, Luke taking over as co pilot like in TFA.) you just put all of what happened to Rey into Luke's plot to make God knows what point. It's not clever.

And who gives a fück if Luke only used the force "those 2 times?" Rey only used the force "those two times" (to get out of the restraints and when she fought Kylo.)

Luke seemed pretty adept at the force pretty quickly, and I'm sure if, in ANH, Luke had fought someone that was around his age who wasn't trying to kill him and who was also struggling against the light side and had also just been shot and had also just been scraped with a lightsaber by someone else, then it would have been a fair fight. No?

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Luke gets shot by those training droids. Only after Obi Wan instructs and guides him does he start blocking the shots. Just like the death star shot. Obi Wan is in his ear guiding him. Rey just ups and knows everything and its complete rubbish.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Lolol. Yes, Obi wan does say 'use the force' to Luke and then Luke blocks no problem. And doesn't he just whisper 'use the force' before Luke destroys the Death Star? WOW, masterful in depth jedi training right there.

Rey used the force after
#1. Maz told her about the force and tried to convince her to 'let it in,' Rey had a force vision after touching a lightsaber, and after Kylo 'awoke' something in her when he used the force to search around in her mind.
Also - when Kylo reminds her of the force during their fight, which in my mind is pretty much the same thing as Obi Wan whispering 'use the force' in Luke's ear. And then they both channeled the force to great success. What's the difference?

It's not like she just randomly starts using the force. Do you think that no one ever uses the force in the SW galaxy unless they're trained? Do you think Obi Wan or Yoda or other jedi masters are the only way to awake the force in people? Maybe it can happen in different ways?

And I bet you money if Rey HAD learned how to use the force in the EXACT same way as Luke, then everyone would be calling foul and be pissed that TFA was copying ANH.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

But don't you remember? Luke mastered the force as well and destroyed the Death Star all by himself!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

No he didn't. He had to be guided and helped by Ob-Wan
Rey didn't even hear Luke's voice to set her on the path
What a MARY SUE >:(

also far different from mastering Lightsaber combat.
Hack Disney. Hack JJ. Hack Kennedy. Hack Hollywood.


Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Luke failed in his initial encounter with the practise remote because he relied on his eyes instead of using the Force – which, at that point, was only a concept. Recognizing this, Obi-Wan placed a flight helmet on Luke's head which obscured his sight and compelled him to use the Force. He deflected three energy bolts with ease. In other words, Obi-Wan had to throw him into the metaphorical “deep end of the pool” for Luke to discover his innate talent for wielding the Force. As for the finale, Obi-Wan only offered a reminder to use the Force for Luke to make that “one-in-a-million shot” that destroyed the death star. This was Luke’s accomplishment, not his mentor’s.

Whereas Luke had a mentor to teach him to harness the Force, Rey had circumstance. In her initial encounter with Kylo Ren, she took to her heels and was captured. Rey’s “sink or swim” moment came during her interrogation. Since she was shackled, the only option available was to use an ability that could not be restrained – the Force. Her next encounter with Kylo Ren was an adrenaline-fueled, life or death situation and perhaps tinged with a bit of rage (at seeing Fin fall). As in the previous films, this makes you more powerful.

Luke’s revelation that he could wield the Force took place during a blind fight with a practice drone. Rey’s awakening to the Force came when she successfully resisted Kylo Ren’s interrogation.

But Rey is far from “knowing everything”. Can she harness the force in times of calm? Can she control the intensity of its effects? Does she know proper lightsaber technique instead of hacking and slashing? Can she learn to resist the dark side of the Force? I don’t believe she can – yet.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Luke was in plenty of life-and-death situations and still was not able to magically call up Force powers to save himself in ANH, even after receiving some training. Why didn't he use the Force to hold back the walls of the trash compactor or Jedi mind trick the dianoga to let him go? Damn, I should've put that in my script.

Obi-Wan offered more than a "reminder," he was encouraging Luke to believe in the Force. "Trust your feelings." Successful use of the Force does not come naturally. Not to mention this Death Star achievement is something the Rebels fully expected a normal, human pilot could do. The Force didn't help Luke do something extraordinary, it just helped him be a little bit better at a normal human task. So what he did was less advanced than the Jedi mind trick or fighting a trained Force user with a weapon normal humans never use.

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

I don't think that was the first time Rey used a lightsaber. You don't know her life past story.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Blocking three energy bolts while blind and destroying the death star with a "one-in-a-million shot" aren't extraordinary things?

As I recall, the attack on the death star by the rebels was a desperate, last ditch attempt to avoid the end of the rebellion. There was an uneasy murmur in the room when the plan of attack was presented to the pilots. "It's impossible, even with a computer!" Indeed, the first attempt by another pilot missed.

I enjoyed TFA whereas you had problems with it. That's fine.

I'm not claiming some special power to get into the minds of JJ Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan or George Lucas. I don't know every bit of minutiae on and behind the movie screen. But the events of TFA made just enough sense to be believable enough for ME (if not for you). My opinions are reasonable explanations in my own mind's eye.

Suspension of disbelief by the audience is (to some degree) a key part of enjoying SciFi/fantasy. I recall a similar uproar over Indiana Jones surviving an atomic blast inside a refrigerator. If he could be dragged by a truck without a scratch, survive an ocean voyage atop a German U-boat or encounter an 800-year-old crusader, why not?

Cheers.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

I didn't change the plot at all. ANH and TFA have the same plot. Characters are established differently and sometimes switch roles, but it's the same plot. This is a very slight rewrite of ANH to apply the same character development that Rey got to Luke. The point is obvious, to show how ANH would've been as a movie if produced today by Disney and J.J. Abrams.

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Like everything else it went over your insipid head.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

How many months(?) of jedi training did Luke have before he was able to defeat Darth Vader who had been training since childhood?



WE GOT MOVIE SIIIIIGN!

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Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

He beat him with rage, not skill.

He didn't suddenly master the force more powerfully than Vader and pull his lightsaber. Unlike this poorly written dreck.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

So rage beats the force?



WE GOT MOVIE SIIIIIGN!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

No rage let's you use the "dark side" it's sort of implied it will give you a physical edge when you're trying to attack someone and not defending yourself. In this instance Luke trying to defeat Vader.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Luke trainer with Yoda for days (NOT LIGHTSABER TRAINING JUST MOVING THINGS WITH HIS MIND.) he then held his own against Vader. Then he went against Vader and won in ep6. Did he have some extensive training between eps 5 and 6 that I missed?

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Actually I'm pretty sure in A New Hope Obi Wan begins training him so he did have some training with a lightsaber and it is very likely he continued to train between then and the end of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi so that's not even the same.

Look I'm all for having female led movies but you don't have to go overboard and make them perfect to show that they're strong. Rey was a feminist power fantasy and a Mary Sue it's that simple.

If you don't believe that properties that were successful with male heroes have ever been taken, gender-switched and turned into feminist power fantasies by overpowering the female character I turn your attention to Avatar The Last Airbender and it's sequel series The Legend of Korra. When you watch at that you will have no choice but to see exactly what this whole Mary Sue complaint is about, this is not unheard of.
With that being said we'll see how things go in the next two movies.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Lol, Luke blocks tiny laser shots with a lightsaber for five minutes. He doesn't use it in combat. He didn't get trained with a lightsaber.

"f you don't believe that properties that were successful with male heroes have ever been taken, gender-switched and turned into feminist power fantasies by overpowering the female character I turn your attention to Avatar The Last Airbender and it's sequel series The Legend of Korra"
Lol what? Idgaf about legend of Korra

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

At least he had some training and he didn't face Darth Vader until the end of the second movie in which he actually trained more extensively with Yoda. There was a large time gap between Obi-Wan's training session and him actually facing Vader. That is in no way comparable to Rey having literally (as far as we know) only touched a light-saber that very same day and is good enough with it to beat a trained user. Luke was in no way a Gary Stu in comparison to Rey's Mary Sue-ness.
I referenced Legend of Korra because y'all keep acting like this is unheard of. This very same thing has happened before, the people agreeing that this female character Rey is overpowered in comparison to her predecessor Luke are not pulling this idea out of nowhere.
Like I said before we'll see how it goes in the sequels.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

We don't need to see every second of training Luke gets from Yoda to understand he was trained in many techniques. The movie doesn't have time to show it all. His lightsaber training with Yoda is in a deleted scene on the Blu-ray though.

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

I gotta get that Blu-ray! I'd love to see that scene.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

It's on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK6wqpNKdh0

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)


Luke trainer with Yoda for days (NOT LIGHTSABER TRAINING JUST MOVING THINGS WITH HIS MIND.) he then held his own against Vader. Then he went against Vader and won in ep6. Did he have some extensive training between eps 5 and 6 that I missed?

Actually, Luke didn't hold his own against Vader in Episode 5. Vader was toying with him the whole time. Remember, his mission was not to kill Luke but to capture him and bring him to the Emperor. Luke, after repeatedly getting his butt kicked, got in one lucky shot, and Vader effortlessly ended the fight 5-seconds later. Luke never stood chance.

Luke certainly got in some additional practice and training between Episode 5 and 6. He was able to use the Jedi mind trick, which he had never done before, and he was much more skilled with the lightsaber. But even then, Vader wasn't trying to kill him during their duel, he was trying to turn him. It was only at the end, when Luke was full of rage and on the verge of falling to the darkside, that he was finally able to overpower Vader.

So we see Luke consistently grow as a character across all three movies. My concern with Rey is that she's already awesome, she has extensive knowledge of the force and is a skilled fighter, she's one of the best pilots in Star Wars saga, and she handily beat the bad guy. Where do you go with a character like that? I can see it now:

STAR WARS
EPISODE VIII

REY IS STILL AWESOME

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Only thing I can see to make her interesting is falling to the dark side killing Kylo Ren and becoming the antagonist to the new heroes.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

It is bonkers that you spent so much time on such a useless post.

You weren't even making points about how Rey was a 'Mary Sue.' You were just describing literally every scene that Rey was in, and replacing Luke's name. That was garbage.


Not sure if serious or just trolling?

But if former... bwahahaha!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)


destroys the Death Star with his eyes closed using expert flight techniques on a ship he'd never driven before


It is mentioned more than once during ANH that Luke has above average piloting skills.

Ben Kenobi: "He [Luke's father] was the best star pilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior. I understand you've [to Luke] become quite a good pilot yourself."


X-Wing Pilot: "That's impossible, even for a computer."

Luke: "It's not impossible, I used to bullseye womprats in my T16 back home, they're not much bigger than 2 metres."


Biggs: "Sir, Luke is the best bush pilot in the outer rim territories."

And if you've ever seen ANH you'll notice that Luke's eyes are quite noticeably open when he fires his torpedoes.



"If you're waiting for a woman to make up her mind, you may have a long wait." Preacher

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Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Wow.

---
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Mm hm.

---
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH 'Mary Sue' Rewrite)

Bump

"If you're waiting for a woman to make up her mind, you may have a long wait." Preacher

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

jedi-jones, you're amazing!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

No need to rewrite anything, Luke was a Marty Stu in ANH, but he's a guy, so it's all good.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Obviously he wasn't if it takes about 20 plot changes to get him up to Rey's level of golden perfection.

He needed help from Obi-Wan every time he used the Force, had to obey his aunt and uncle, didn't confront Vader, didn't get the girl, didn't fly the Falcon, got beat up at the Cantina and by Tusken Raiders, had to be rescued from the trash compactor by the droids, couldn't translate languages, spent all movie listening to Han belittle him...

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

No plot changes necessary, any simple farm boy can go from shooting wamprats to downing a death star almost single handedly....easy peazy.

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

If doing one challenging task at the very end of the movie with the direct help of a wise teacher makes you a Mary Sue, than Daniel Larusso in Karate Kid is more of an idealized, perfect hero than I ever imagined.

So the only way to NOT be a Mary Sue is to be a complete failure and lose or die at the end of the movie?

You clearly don't understand the term.

Colonel Miles Quaritch is like some sort of...non...giving-up...army guy!

Re: If Luke was Rey (a.k.a. The ANH "Mary Sue" Rewrite)

Did the Karate Kid deflect lasers blindfolded, I must have missed that.
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