War Dogs : The Chinese Ammo

I'm just reading the book, havent seen the movie yet so I dont know how much focus is on the chinese ammo. But i just wanna know why the US was so against chinese ammo when the ammo has already been in Albania over 40 years and so all the funding for the ammo would go to the Albanians, not the Chinese. The Chinese wouldnt get a cent of the money so what was the problem then buying the chinese ammo?

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But i just wanna know why the US was so against chinese ammo when the ammo has already been in Albania over 40 years and so all the funding for the ammo would go to the Albanians, not the Chinese. The Chinese wouldnt get a cent of the money so what was the problem then buying the chinese ammo?

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Warning: possible Spoilers.

As I understand it, they actually did try to use ths argument in real life. However it looks like a decision had been made very high up and for political reasons it had to be seen - at least officially - to be observed.
From the Rolling Stone article "The Stoner Arms Dealers: How Two American Kids Became Big-Time Weapons Traders":

Packouz's heart sank. There was not only an embargo against selling weapons manufactured in China: The Afghan contract specifically stipulated that Chinese ammo was not permitted. Then again, maybe AEY could argue that the ammunition didn't violate the ban, since it had been imported to Albania decades before the embargo was imposed, back when Albania's communist government had forged an alliance with Mao. There was precedent for such an argument: Only the year before, the Army had been delighted with Chinese ammo that AEY had shipped from Albania. But this time, when Diveroli wrote the State Department's legal advisory desk to ask if he could use Chinese rounds made prior to the embargo, he received a curt and unequivocal reply: not without a presidential decree.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-stoner-arms-dealers-20110316

In truth there appears to have been a lot of "blind eye" turning, to the extent that Packouz thought he'd get away with it because the ammo was made pre-embargo, but the clincher - which the film only hints at very briefly in a news report towards the end - was that much of the ammo shipped was faulty (apparently due to problems with the repackaging). Again from Rolling Stone:

To avoid indictment, Packouz agreed to cooperate, as did Alex Podrizki. But Diveroli went right on shipping Chinese ammo to Afghanistan and the Army went right on accepting it. By now, though, the repackaging being done in Albania was getting even sloppier. Some of the crates were infested with termites, and the ammunition had been damaged by water. Tipped off by an attorney for Kosta Trebicka, who had begun a crusade against corruption in Albania, The New York Times ran a front-page story in March 2008 entitled "Supplier Under Scrutiny on Arms for Afghans."
Before the Times story ran, Packouz had been led to believe that he wasn't going to be charged for shipping pre-embargo Chinese ammunition. But after the article appeared, he and Podrizki and Diveroli were indicted on 71 counts of fraud. Faced with overwhelming evidence, all pleaded guilty.


"So I've got bullets, but no gun. That's quite Zen."

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As I understand it, they actually did try to use ths argument in real life.

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Yes, Merril used that argument during the trial but it was denied:

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The rule requires that every solicitation and contract contain a clause that makes clear that munitions delivered under this contract may not be acquired, directly or indirectly, from a Communist Chinese military company.
The phrase directly or indirectly makes clear that the prohibition covers any ammunition manufactured by a Communist Chinese military company. Merrill's interpretation ignores the phrase directly or indirectly and would eviscerate the regulation. Under Merrill's reading, as long as munitions were sent from China to a third party before a Department of Defense contract was contemplated, they could later be sold to the Department of Defense. Congress and the Department of Defense could not have intended to include such a gaping loophole in their embargo.

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http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1604680.html

I don't necessarily agree with that though. IMO it's not a loophole at all.

There was another article about this, but I cannot remember where I read it. One of the arguments made by the U.S. Government was since the supplier records could be open to public scrutiny under the Freedom of Information Act, since the contract was not "secret" or above, there was fear the Chinese would discover what was going on and would sabotage further ammunition shipments that they knew were going to U.S. Forces and Allies, even if they went through an intermediary like Albania. The U.S. was worried about the rounds failing in combat and creating even more problems. I wish I could remember where I read that. I believe the article came out after they pleaded guilty and was an opinion piece on the case.

I should have noted the article was an opinion, it was offering what they thought was a U.S. Government reason for excluding Chinese ammo. It did not contain an official statement from the government.

Very true. It also encourages China and other countries whose ammo sales to the US are banned (e.g., Iran, North Korea) to sell to their respective allies, who can then sell to the US. The ban is on ammunition origin, not necessarily which country it is coming from at the time.

So you think China might get a cut of the profits from any sales of their Albanian ammo to US?

But that's not the case here. Albania bought the ammo from China _before_ the ban was put in place. So disregarding that it's past its expiration date, there should be no problem reselling it to the US.

The reason for the embargo is in response to the Chinese Tiananmen Square incident in 1989.

Considering the sheer amount of consumer goods we import from China, it's pretty hypocritical.

"Considering the sheer amount of consumer goods we import from China, it's pretty hypocritical."

==Exactly.

Also, the USA gets into bed with a country that is responsible, yet it denies, of 3 major genocides. Turkey.
Between 1890 to 1918, they massacred, greeks, armenians, assyrians. It was an ethnic cleansing campaign.
On top of that, back in 1915, the USA offered helped to the greeks, armenians, assyrians to escape Turkey.

Now, they have joined with Turkey in a campaign that it never happened.

If you ignore the 40 years that the ammo sat in the warehouse, you have a situation where China made a bunch of ammo, Albania bought it, and then Albania sold it to the US Military. The regulations are to prevent that kind of situation from happening. USA doesnt want China supplying the military and they don't want China supplying the military through a middleman.

The rules were set up for other situations and not the one that we saw in this movie, but it still violates those rules.