Doctor Strange : OT: Anyone else just wish mankind had died out before we were born?

After 3.4 million years of Stone Age + about 6,000 years of non-Stone Age look at us, we're The Planet of the Idiots!

We feed our kids the white lies of civilization. The myths. The imaginary things the adults pretend are not imaginary.

There's the myth of "importance" (aka "imperative"). Yet reality is nothing about organic life or about the universe itself is "imperative". There is nothing of "importance" to achieve or avoid. We do what we do but in the end we might as well have not have, the universe had no preference.

There's the myth of "necessity" (aka "need"). Your parents told you you have "needs". But you don't. None of us do. The desire to avoid death does not create a "need" for oxygen. The desire to walk on legs does not create a "need" for legs.

There's the myth of "should". That you "ought" to do something before you die. Reality is there isn't anything you "should" do under any circumstances. Reality is you do what you and the universe will never care about you.

There's the myth of "must" (aka "have to"). That you "must" do something before you die. Reality is there isn't anything you "have to" do no matter what the circumstances are. Reality is you do what you and the universe will never care about you.

There's the myth of "justification". Reality is an organism can't even "justify" breathing the atmosphere.

There's the myth of "laws" and "crimes", "theft" and "murder" (aka "unsanctioned killing"). Making up rules is useful but they're still as made up as the rules for playing chess.

There's the myth of "morally right and morally wrong" where they mix up good and evil with accuracy for you. Reality is the universe doesn't care how evil we are, it isn't checking our behaviour to a script to see if we're reading our lines as stated or comparing our test scores to a card it had in its pocket.
Rape isn't inaccurate and 1+1=6.4 is not evil, morons.

There's the myth of "property" (aka "ownership"). Reality is none of us even "owns" the brain matter we think with.

There's the myth of "deserving". Reality is no one ever "deserved" anything they got and no one ever will.

There's the myth of "owing". Reality is no one "owes" anyone or anyone anything.

There's the myth of "duty" and "responsibility". Reality is a mother has no more "duty" or "responsibility" to take care of her newborn offspring than she has to leave it in a dumpster to die.

There's the myth of "purpose". Reality is a carpenter can't give a chair he's making a "purpose". Anybody can come along and use the chair for whatever they want.

There's the myth of "value" (aka "worth"). Reality is a single atom of oxygen or gold holds the same amount of "value" as a planet-size chunk of oxygen or gold; absolute zero, which is the exact same amount of "value" it held long before organic life came along.

There's the myth of "perfection and imperfection". We often hear no one is "perfect" and it happens to be true but it's true because reality is no one is "imperfect".

There's the myth of "nations". Reality is they're no more real than they were when the landmasses were like one big continent populated by dinosaurs or whatever.

There's the myth of "money" and "the economy" while reality is that's a load of complete horse manure.

All your cultures and all your religions are offensive to me and I wish our ancestors had all died so all seven billion of us now living were never born.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706

Ouck fff, you cucking funt.





Click here:
http://soundcloud.com/tigermaster/

Thank you for being Exhibit A in giving evidence for my point, tiger86-2.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706

You are welcome. Now go fu yourself with a rusty chainsaw.





Click here:
http://soundcloud.com/tigermaster/

Nope, I'm good.


If your theater is a space safe from ideas and opinions, you're doing theater wrong.

How nice for you.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706

It's an irrelevant question: if it had happened, you wouldn't be around to ponder it.

So why bemoan the meaninglessness of life rather than reveling in it? If none of it matters, anyway, you might as well enjoy it.


If your theater is a space safe from ideas and opinions, you're doing theater wrong.

Everything has meaning and everything matters to something else.

Enjoy it? Humans are sick in the head and I want you all to die in your own filth. (I'm reading about human trafficking, child labor, child prostitution etc. and it makes me want to build a shed and burn myself alive in it.)

And it's not irrelevant to ask if anyone else feels like you do.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706

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Enjoy it? Humans are sick in the head and I want you all to die in your own filth. (I'm reading about human trafficking, child labor, child prostitution etc. and it makes me want to build a shed and burn myself alive in it.)

And it's not irrelevant to ask if anyone else feels like you do.

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I was gonna make some snappy comment about this and how it could relate to your "nobody should anything" stuff, but if that's really how you feel I guess it's better to offer my sympathies. I can relate to an extent to a feeling of disgust and powerlessness when looking at the world and the things people are capable of. But there are also a lot of good things in this world, good people, and that to me is enough to not let the bad things overwhelm me.

Serious question (plus advice, maybe?), that isn't meant to transport anything but genuine concern and sympathy, and doesn't neccessarily need a public answer: do you have people to talk about these things outside of random IMDB boards (family, friends, teachers, if need be someone professional)? If so, you might want to talk to them. If not, you might want to look for someone.

I wish you all the best and have my fingers crossed that you might reach a more positive outlook on the human race in the future!

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I was gonna make some snappy comment about this and how it could relate to your "nobody should anything" stuff, but if that's really how you feel I guess it's better to offer my sympathies.

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Thank you. I'll recover.

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I can relate to an extent to a feeling of disgust and powerlessness when looking at the world and the things people are capable of. But there are also a lot of good things in this world, good people, and that to me is enough to not let the bad things overwhelm me.

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I know, it just seems right now that everything pretty is built on lies and suffering.

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Serious question (plus advice, maybe?), that isn't meant to transport anything but genuine concern and sympathy, and doesn't neccessarily need a public answer: do you have people to talk about these things outside of random IMDB boards (family, friends, teachers, if need be someone professional)? If so, you might want to talk to them. If not, you might want to look for someone.

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I went to a psychologist way back when for over a year but the only thing they were interested in was me coming back next week and being a guinea pig for anti-depressants they get some kind of cut of.

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I wish you all the best and have my fingers crossed that you might reach a more positive outlook on the human race in the future!

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Thank you.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706

So kill yourself and be done with it. Burn yourself alive in a shed.

Nest. Use it, live it, love it.

Your oh-so-subtle Jedi reverse-psychology won't work on me, I'm afraid.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706

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And it's not irrelevant to ask if anyone else feels like you do.

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Sure it is, when the established premise is wishing mankind had died out before you were born: if you want mankind to be gone, if YOU want to be gone, if you want EVERYONE ELSE to be gone, what does it matter how anyone elsewho you would prefer to be gonewhat does it matter how they feel?

You're basically saying "I wish I didn't exist" but you have the narcissism to try to force that point of view on the rest of the world.

So since you've decided to make mankind moot in this and every other topic you post, yes, why not enjoy it in spite of the horrible things some people do?

Because frankly, from your nihilistic existential point of view, their misery is just as irrelevant as my happiness.

I'm not saying I agree with you, I'm just saying that from the perspective you lay out, being miserable is your own irrelevant choice. So make a better one.


If your theater is a space safe from ideas and opinions, you're doing theater wrong.

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Sure it is, when the established premise is wishing mankind had died out before you were born: if you want mankind to be gone, if YOU want to be gone, if you want EVERYONE ELSE to be gone, what does it matter how anyone elsewho you would prefer to be gonewhat does it matter how they feel?

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I want to know. If I were dead, I wouldn't want to, that's true, but THAT is irrelevant.

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You're basically saying "I wish I didn't exist" but you have the narcissism to try to force that point of view on the rest of the world.

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No, I was just asking if anybody else felt like me.

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So since you've decided to make mankind moot in this and every other topic you post, yes, why not enjoy it in spite of the horrible things some people do?

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I have not decided to make mankind moot. And it's not some people doing horrible things, it's that pretty much everyone (above a certain age) is complicit by simply accepting the myths of civilization.

Just one example:
You accept the myths of "money" and "value" then you are complicit in human trafficking, child prostitution etc.
You've stepped away from the truth and become a conduit for two of the white lies of civilization and all the horribleness that comes with them.

(Not that I'm saying "Keep to the truth and you can be a non-horrible perfect human!" No, we'd be some totally-non-civilized society with other horrors.)

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Because frankly, from your nihilistic existential point of view, their misery is just as irrelevant as my happiness.

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It's not nihilism, it's existentialism. Nihilism is that life is meaningless, I'm not saying that.

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I'm not saying I agree with you, I'm just saying that from the perspective you lay out, being miserable is your own irrelevant choice. So make a better one.

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I could, and I usually want to, but there's no point. We might as well be extinct.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706

If life is so bad for you, why not just leave?

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If life is so bad for you, why not just leave?

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I've been suicidal since 1997. There is no "why". How come I don't off myself? I take it day by day because maybe tomorrow will be different and mankind will look less repulsive. 20 years later I'm stil waiting.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706

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I've been suicidal since 1997.

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And you still haven't managed to end your miserable life?
Pathetic. Now, go and find a rusty chainsaw, turn it on and fu yourself with it.





Click here:
http://soundcloud.com/tigermaster/

Your oh-so-subtle Jedi reverse-psychology won't work on me, I'm afraid.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706

What makes you think I am using reverse psychology?
You are just an annoying piece of sh!t, which is why I am acting the way I am acting.





Click here:
http://soundcloud.com/tigermaster/

Well then your subtle manipulation is not working either.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706

You've been suicidal for 20 years? Wow, you must be a very impractical person.





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How low can adults sink?? Just ask Sinister. He loves comics and hates women.

I am.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706

nah.

imo

It's a little confusingmorals are myths but immorality makes you feel bad?

But cutting more to the chase, these things you say ARE true, but only if we're assuming a naturalistic worldview. And a naturalistic worldview is a faith about reality.

Now, maybe it's true, & therefore natural to have these feelings (meaningless accidental beings with feelings, what a cruel accidental joke).

Or maybe it's not true, & these feelings you have (if you do indeed have them) are indicative that it's not true, or at least some parts of it aren't.

Either way, true or untrue, atheism is a complex belief system that human beings don't seem all that well built to live with.

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It's a little confusingmorals are myths but immorality makes you feel bad?

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Morals (good and evil) are not myths. Being "morally right or morally wrong" is a myth because (contrary to human ego) the universe doesn't care how good or evil we are.
It's not an issue of being accurate or inaccurate.

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But cutting more to the chase, these things you say ARE true, but only if we're assuming a naturalistic worldview. And a naturalistic worldview is a faith about reality.

Now, maybe it's true, & therefore natural to have these feelings (meaningless accidental beings with feelings, what a cruel accidental joke).

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Nothing is meaningless. Meaning is more constantly around us than atoms and photons.

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Or maybe it's not true, & these feelings you have (if you do indeed have them) are indicative that it's not true, or at least some parts of it aren't.

Either way, true or untrue, atheism is a complex belief system that human beings don't seem all that well built to live with.

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It makes no difference to the truth what we can and cannot live with.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706

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Morals (good and evil) are not myths. Being "morally right or morally wrong" is a myth because (contrary to human ego) the universe doesn't care how good or evil we are.

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Waitwhat? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that this is just a difference of definitions. Because otherwise this contradiction is clearly incorrect.

The universe not caring is also a faith statement. Maybe it's true, but maybe it's not.

Also, on the different topic of meaning, no one can give meaning to themselves. At best, meaning can only be discovered (as "meaning" would roughly translate to "the purpose of why I am here").

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Waitwhat? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that this is just a difference of definitions. Because otherwise this contradiction is clearly incorrect.

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How so?

Rape is not inaccurate. 1+2=312 is not evil. Right and wrong is about accuracy, not morality. Morality is about good and evil, not right and wrong. Because the universe doesn't care how evil your are, it doesn't compare your actions to those in a script in its hand.

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The universe not caring is also a faith statement. Maybe it's true, but maybe it's not.

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Yeah, and maybe we're in the Matrix, maybe we're not.

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Also, on the different topic of meaning, no one can give meaning to themselves. At best, meaning can only be discovered (as "meaning" would roughly translate to "the purpose of why I am here").

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No, there is no "purpose". Meaning is all around. We use it in language and we use it to learn and the dung beetle uses it when it navigates by the Milky Way.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706

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No, there is no "purpose". Meaning is all around. We use it in language and we use it to learn and the dung beetle uses it when it navigates by the Milky Way.

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Dung Beetle, its there to clean up the dung, just like bees, they are there to pollinate, amongst other things.
They have a purpose, even if they are not aware of it or started out with these tasks/routines.
If they will suddenly (be forced to)switch routines, then somethings gotta give, either the bees fail to find a new niche or the plants will just simply die out.
If they would suddenly disappear, you will find that the world doesnt work the same way anymore.
Or, a stomach has a purpose, words have meaning and purpose.
Maybe life has no purpose to/on Earth specifically, we especially have little value to nature the way weve been going about.
Maybe all of life has no purpose or meaning, but, all is not lost.

Again i would just urge you to look at life, forget mankind, just enjoy the beauty of the Universe :)
I mean, asking why or asking how, we can only stretch those questions so far (yet).
If we somehow find out why the Universe exists, would it also explain how it was made? And vice versa. Like, how come there was matter to begin with, what is beyond it, and is that 'beyond' the final frontier or is there even more to explore.
Were pretty much always going to be left with questions, which i think is a good thing, its a nice perpetual quest.
Chances are that everything is some abstract construct, some kind of snowball or butterfly effect, something that we never truly will understand or accept.
I dont like that thought, but it has to end/begin somewhere.
But i would find it a waste if we offed ourselves, as ive said before, Carl Sagan had a point, we are a way for the Cosmos to know itself.

Humans are behaving like purposeful animals, yet, like you say, our things are made up and came from our imagination. Our true purpose right now is more like a wildcard species. We can bridge gaps in the chain, or make gaps, depending on the intentions.
But that should be pretty logical to see, nature doesnt grow money, so clearly it must be artificial, in other words, it has nothing to do with nature directly.
So i like to move on from that kind of human stuff, its not very interesting to me, thats why ive been avoiding most of your talking points.

But it works both ways in the end, maybe life has no purpose, but, since were good at making up our own things, we, or any other smart species out there, can still achieve something wonderful, but all we can do is to leave something behind to be reminded of by nobody, if and when it all ends some day.
But eh, each day is a new day, crap a dime or something Latin.

I skip reading the bottom line, because it is usually some lame signature.

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Dung Beetle, its there to clean up the dung, just like bees, they are there to pollinate, amongst other things.
They have a purpose, even if they are not aware of it or started out with these tasks/routines.

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No, they do not have a "purpose". They're being useful. Just like we're being useful for proving the dung they feed on. Just like vegetation is useful for putting oxygen in the atmosphere among other things.

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If they would suddenly disappear, you will find that the world doesnt work the same way anymore.

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I would find that, yes.

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Or, a stomach has a purpose, words have meaning and purpose.

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No, a stomach does not have a "purpose", it has its uses. Look up haggis, for example.

Words have their uses but they have no "purpose". "Purpose" is a myth. What we call "the function" of the brakes on a car is to give you the option to slow the car down but they have no "purpose" just like the car has no "purpose" to slow down or speed up. The car has no "purpose", you can use it for whatever you want to use it for. The system of the car is that this component has this "function", that component has that "function", that helps us conceptualize the system but nothing in the universe has "purpose".

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Maybe life has no purpose to/on Earth specifically, we especially have little value to nature the way weve been going about.

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We have exactly zero "value". Nature itself has zero "value" to itself. "Value" is a concept that has no counterpart in reality. It is a myth.

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Again i would just urge you to look at life, forget mankind, just enjoy the beauty of the Universe :)

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Beauty is irrelevant! Billions of humans collectively sticking their heads in the sand offends me, it insults all of our earliest ancestors surviving through the Stone Age for 3 million years and I want everyone living to never have been born because of it.

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I mean, asking why or asking how, we can only stretch those questions so far (yet).

If we somehow find out why the Universe exists, would it also explain how it was made? And vice versa.

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See my threads on how vs why.

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Like, how come there was matter to begin with, what is beyond it, and is that 'beyond' the final frontier or is there even more to explore.

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There was no matter to begin with. Unless I misunderstand the Big Bang, Big Bounce etc. theories.

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Were pretty much always going to be left with questions, which i think is a good thing, its a nice perpetual quest.
Chances are that everything is some abstract construct, some kind of snowball or butterfly effect, something that we never truly will understand or accept.
I dont like that thought, but it has to end/begin somewhere.

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As I understand it, butterfly effect is just that in an alternate reality if your grandparents didn't have your parents differences between our reality and that reality would increase over time.

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But i would find it a waste if we offed ourselves, as ive said before, Carl Sagan had a point, we are a way for the Cosmos to know itself.

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Maybe, maybe.

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Humans are behaving like purposeful animals, yet, like you say, our things are made up and came from our imagination. Our true purpose right now is more like a wildcard species. We can bridge gaps in the chain, or make gaps, depending on the intentions.

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We have no "true purpose".

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But that should be pretty logical to see, nature doesnt grow money, so clearly it must be artificial, in other words, it has nothing to do with nature directly.

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Nothing grows "money" because it's as fictional as this chess piece moves like this, that chess piece moves like that. "That's artificial!" Well, yeah, if you want to call pretense that.

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But it works both ways in the end, maybe life has no purpose, but, since were good at making up our own things, we, or any other smart species out there, can still achieve something wonderful, but all we can do is to leave something behind to be reminded of by nobody, if and when it all ends some day.
But eh, each day is a new day, crap a dime or something Latin.

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Don't get me wrong, I do like your optimism.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706

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Morals (good and evil) are not myths. Being "morally right or morally wrong" is a myth because (contrary to human ego) the universe doesn't care how good or evil we are.
It's not an issue of being accurate or inaccurate.

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Have enjoyed reading through your debates, since I caught your post in the Arrival board. But I have to say that I don't agree with this statement you made, because you are contradicting yourself.

Morals (good and evil) are myths - the same as your statement of what is "morally right or morally wrong".

What is "good" or "evil" is entirely subjective - dependent on the viewer's or group's perspective. The universe recognizes no such absolute. There is no such thing as a moral.
It only exists as a construct to maintain social order, which can be observed in animals.

Picture a pack of wild dogs, one of them, the top dog, is eating some fresh meat. As top dog, the he is considered by the pack entitled to get first dibs. However a crafty, opportunistic lesser dog swiftly takes it and runs. The top dog, and the other dogs chase him and bite him, thus asserting the top dog's dominance and order within the pack hierarchy.

The "moral" of stealing in this example, is no different in essence to the human moral of "thou shalt not steal".

These concepts existed before the purported ten commandments.

So when you say you are depressed because the human race are all culpable because they have bought into a value system that perpetuates "evil" behaviour, I think this contradicts your standpoint about the universe's impartiality.

The fact is that "morality" is a functional part of order and control. Religion merely enforces such rules by making people fear damnation should they not behave themselves. But even before religion, within every reasonably sophisticated lifeform, there are rules of expected behaviour to maintain order.

Some would say that it is evil to "covet your neighbor's wife". But in polygamous societies/cultures, this can be considered good.

"Thou shalt not kill" is considered evil. However if you look at the Aztecs, human sacrifice as a good thing.

I could go on..

Well, I kinda have similar feelings about the world now and then. And I figured life is meaningless until you decide to give it meaning. I like to think of things as preferences.
I'd prefer to do x over y, rather than x is BETTER than y.
I know someone who you might like to listen to, watch a few of his videos as my first impressions of him were false. Search "Naked Reality" on youtube. He talks about the *beep* we're fed in life and how to go about life. It's basically a "don't give a *beep* attitude that has helped me move through my days.

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Well, I kinda have similar feelings about the world now and then. And I figured life is meaningless until you decide to give it meaning. I like to think of things as preferences.

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I figure nothing is ever meaningless and meaning is more constantly around us than atoms and photons. The truth will outlast life and space and time itself.

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I know someone who you might like to listen to, watch a few of his videos as my first impressions of him were false. Search "Naked Reality" on youtube. He talks about the *beep* we're fed in life and how to go about life. It's basically a "don't give a *beep* attitude that has helped me move through my days.

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I'll check it out.

Also, this: http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000130/nest/263626706