Westworld : Unlikable Characters

I'm finally getting around to watching this show. It's interesting and seems like it's about to get entertaining. I have to wonder, why are half of the characters unlikable? They seem to be written that way as well.

Never been a gangsta but I play hardball.

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Set at the intersection of the near future and the reimagined past, WESTWORLD is a dark odyssey about the dawn of artificial consciousness and the evolution of sin, exploring a world in which every human appetite, no matter how noble or depraved, can be indulged.

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Producers talk finale twists, describe season 2 as 'total fking mayhem'

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http://www.ew.com/article/2016/12/05/westworld-finale-interview

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NOLAN: Again, I think with this show we like surprising people. And we like playing with them.

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They know what audience they are trying to reach.

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They know what audience they are trying to reach.

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That doesn't explain the characters being unlikable. Villains and characters written to be bad people can still be likable characters. Littlefinger's a piece of *beep* on Game of Thrones but people tend to like the character. Ed Harris' character, so far, is bad but I like seeing him do his thing. The Logan character, on the other hand, I just want off of the screen the moment he's on it.

Never been a gangsta but I play hardball.

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characters written to be bad people can still be likable characters.

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Does that work in a real life world view, and is that who you can relate to?

My version of like is one where I can/could co-exist and find relatable qualities. Not to be contrary, but Logan and the Sizemore script writer may be the most relatable for me. They dont function in the illusion and insanities of a park where such behavior in a real world would not allow society to proceed. They see the park for what it is, a place to temporally escape. People that get lost in illusion are delusional, not altogether a negative state, depending on the duration and how it impacts self and others. When the illusion become a reality it enters levels of psychosis. Up to a point, that can be entertaining, and less so when it becomes relentless, even less in real life. The Game of Thrones universe apparently hasnt progressed much past the iron age for millennia. IIRC, the winters are a decade long, long winter people are different, so are Jersey people..

I suppose if pressed, the characters that fully embrace the contrived nonsense are the most interesting to me, William probably tops that list as having the most fun. Five hours in, and the car crashes became tedious, the social media and game player fan types became my entertainment. That lead directly back to the Nolans and their intentions and my comment. Finish it, and see if your first impressions change enough to want 45 more hours. The dark-bad-sin level for me is around 3 of 10, not much counter balance either. Empathy for machines isnt natural for me, I reserve that for the living.

Hobnobber wrote:

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Logan and the Sizemore script writer may be the most relatable for me.

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Hmmm As Lee considers himself an artist I'm guessing you are a very creative person. Logan seemed a bit of a Frat Boy - perhaps ultimately well-meaning but living in the bubble of his family's wealth.

My theory is that he survived his "walkabout" (OK - "rideabout") and persuaded Dr. Ford to design a custom narrative for him as (human) leader of the "Ghost Nation" tribe. This would make for an interesting 30-year reunion if Season 2 were to begin with his unmasking at the Red Wedding and "chatting" with William-in-Black about old times.

Hobnobber (also) wrote:

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Empathy for machines isnt natural for me, I reserve that for the living.

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Not natural for most, I would think. But isn't that the question: Is a Host who achieves self-awakening, I.E. who finds a soul, alive or a machine?

Few would argue that Roy Batty's death, at the moment of achieving his quest for humanity. is one, if not the most poignant scene(s) in Sci-Fi. Indeed comparing stills of Louis Herthum and Rutgur Hauer from their respective scenes reveals Nolan's intent.

Personally I empathized most with "Old Bill", modeling my "To Carrie Fisher" toast on him:

Here's to the lady all dressed in whiteShe defeated the empireBut those curls,What a frightShe never took CommunionCouldn't stand shawlsBut her lightsaber was bluerThan Jabba the Hutt's Balls

I drank WHAT? - Socrates

Well, I am left handed, use right hand scissors, traveled extensively.. I have stories better than fiction and have started my memoirs, likely not to be shared. No I dont consider myself an artist per se, more an educated artisan whore for hire and sometime smuggler. I know the tastes of vanity and hedonism, along with the traps others covet in ignorance. Egos are more acceptable to me when they are either backed up, or earned. Personally I find pride fleeting and baggage. However as my part time dad said of me from young, you have a champagne appetite and a beer salary kiddo. Enjoy the moment, he did, why not me? He left a note in the kitchen drawer explaining why he left me a larger chunk of the inheritance. I do good work, a benefit to many.
I apply notions of awareness and consciousness to people, they arent binary states. Buddhists and other cultures are founded on seeking higher levels, experiences and the appreciation work well enough for me. I did a begging bowl and sat for a month, while my SO visited family, hospice for a year when younger.

Roy had his time and lived in it, he felt cheated. Deckard made the case of being a benefit. To be human is to be social, the degree is more related to how much one believes they deserve and the manner its taken in trade and with whom. Humans that feel owed are least appealing to me. (Hobnobber Travel Tip: Take Lancme cosmetics to 2nd and 3rd world countries, expensive lingerie to some.) Ill change my tune on the bots, if some can co-exist in a mutual benefit, a symbiosis at least above parasitic reward for their existence. Sing for your supper.

Folks like Logan I find have their masks, we have only seen what is the Nolans LA perspective presented as a caricature, no doubt modeled from some experience. Ive seen J.J. Abrams in interviews, a kosher NY, NY attitude Im familiar with, Logan could be a fit lol. As far as him going native on his rideabout, I saw Stubbs with Elsie more in that vein doing a Dances with Wolves or a Man Named Horse. A Logan return could be interesting, its the Nolans ambitions to milk I no longer trust. The arcs they are painting seem shallow and narrow, perhaps their reality is as well.

Sizemore is the artist that doesnt understand the medium, only the need for larger stage. Another caricature of one who wants to direct but cant write. He could get old fast. If it was up to me Id create a muse for him. Two in fact, one a grounded human and a capricious, flibbertigibbet, libidinous and humorous bot, a restored original Clementine with a Carrie Fisher(R.I.P) attitude might suit. TBH I want more creativity and less contrivance, something more relatable than the guy at the end of bar. Dark on dark is, just a dimmer dark.

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flibbertigibbet

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Great word! So old fashioned.

Hobnobber wrote:

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I have stories better than fiction

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Links?

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Roy had his time and lived in it,

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Reveled in it!

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Folks like Logan I find have their masks,

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CF Poe's "Masque of the Red Wedding" (the original seems to be garbled) Dr. Ford = Prince Prospero? But I was speaking more literally than figuratively (Ok, the Facepaint comes off):
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/westworld/images/e/eb/Ghost_Nation_Horse.JPG/revision/latest?cb=20161117091251

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Sizemore is the artist that doesnt understand the medium,

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But after Dr. Ford, he seemed to understand it the best: "20 interlocking story-lines"

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TBH I want more creativity

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Here you go:
http://www.imdb.com/board/10475784/board/flat/264635106?d=264692702#264692702

BTW this is my real tribute to Carrie Fisher:
http://www.imdb.com/board/20000402/board/flat/264574744?d=264574744#264574744

I drank WHAT? - Socrates

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Empathy for machines isnt natural for me, I reserve that for the living.
Re: Unlikable Characters

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I think this is one of the topics they are somewhat clumsily (but still entertainingly) addressing. At what point do the machines become considered living beings? Once they reach that point, why would a person who reserves empathy for the living not have empathy for them?

Not once, but if the taxon is changed and they are added, and the planet in general has a consensus as to merit it a unique life form on the branches of life, only then will my empathy be warranted. If they prove to be other or above myself, yet consume resources in competition, some discussion and perhaps action will remain an option I would reserve. Not simply a monkey see monkey do machine ability.

Thats just your opinion, man. I dont dislike half the characters. Far from it. I find the actors doing a great job. Doesnt mean I have to dislike anyone. Its only the first season.

Interstellar - Pruit Igoe and Prophecies

I know it's my opinion. I asking is if anyone else shares that opinion, why or why not? The actors are doing a fine job, a sizable amount of the characters seem to just be there to be annoying and hinder the story. The Logan character and the character that writes the narrative in the park are examples. I typically want Logan off of the screen so we can get on with what's going on with Delores and the writer might as well not even be there.

Never been a gangsta but I play hardball.

Logan was on a mission though in my opinion as he was constantly pushing and testing William. He was just never aware of how a maniac Hardcore gamer William really was. Remember the moment when Logan untied William? He really showed affection. Was happy that they were gonna become brothers. Logan in my opinion, was putting on an act. Might be part of Fords plan, as he contacted Logan(or perhaps William) for the Delos investment.

Interstellar - Pruit Igoe and Prophecies

I think you're talking about stuff I haven't seen yet, I'm only on ep 5.

Never been a gangsta but I play hardball.

Oh sorry. Well now you have something to look forward to. The narrative of the show really takes off from episode 5 and up.

Interstellar - Pruit Igoe and Prophecies

At this very juncture basically I really feel like Ford basically knows all.

If you want to be taken seriously, you have to be a serious person.

Yep. Ive had my theory about World within World for quite some time. Ford is in complete control at the MesaWorld just as Westworld. Travellers come by train to both places. Plenty of irregularities at the MesaWorld for it being real. Ford plays with the boards lives..

Interstellar - Pruit Igoe and Prophecies

Yea I got that vibe initially.

About midway through, Maeve and Felix really grow on you. Bernard gets a lot better by the end as does Teddy.

Delores I'm kind of neutral on. I want to like her and I think I did like her more by the end. Many of the hosts are fairly likable, such as Clementine, Lawrence, Armistice, and Hector, especially as their stories develop.

It's odd but most of the human characters are the most unlikable. Theresa, Elsie, Ford, and Stubbs are all pretty dry and hard to really 'like.' Ford does get better by the end once his story develops.

I found Maeve more unlikable as it went on. She was too much of a protagonist and tried to push the drama into forcing people to root for her.

Yeah, I finally finished the series. I don't like the ones that I don't but the ones that I was on the fence for have come on strong. So much so that the unlikable ones aren't that much of an issue anymore, they're, for lack of a better term, filler. Delores, I think, is neutral because she's the closest thing to a main character which usually come off as neutral for the sake of the audience which is a bit unusual for an HBO ensemble show, they usually let the main character develop organically like Stringer on The Wire or Daenerys, Jon and Tyrion as the three main characters for a time on Game of Thrones. If I had to rank a top 5:

Maeve
Bernard(Jeffrey Wright should've won something if he hasn't)
The Man in Black
Armistice
Lawrence

You're right, everyone I dislike are actually human.





Never been a gangsta but I play hardball.

Not sure, but it's probably to do with creating more conflict to drive the stories onward.
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I found them all likable except one that you might not have seen yet. Likable for me when watching film characters is whether I like watching them, not if I want to have a wine with them. A lot of viewers disliked Sizemore but I was fascinated with what a tantruming child he was, and that he was such a contrast to the deadpan characters. If I knew him in real life I'd probably have to hold myself from smacking him over the head with a lump of Wood.

To be honest compared to HBO usual standards this is the Mommins. I still maintain that True Detective's Marty is the most unlikable characters ever put on any screen. I hear that many people cannot stand the characters of Sex and the City, Girls, the Sopranos, Vinyl and so on. Here we at least have Dolores and Maeve to root for somebody.

To answer the OP's question partially because there are too many of them. This show has more or less the same amount of characters as Lost: Teddy, Dolores, Maeve, the Man in Black, Sizemore, Theresa, Ford, Bernard, Elsie, the third Hemsworth, Felix, Silvester, Charlotte, Logan and William and seasons twice as short. Somebody suggested that Logan maybe a normal guy who cares about his sister and just wants to get to know the guy she's marrying. We get one small scene like this but it's too little too late. There simply isn't enough time to give him a backstory and more than one personality trait.

I agree 100%. Almost everyone in the show is unlikable except maybe Ford and Bernard

she fell through a hole, and was never seen again

Half is being a bit generous.

I think 9/10 of the characters are unlikable.