Poldark : Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

You tell your wife you need time to think about what happened - leave Elizabeth in the lurch (I don't have must sympathy for her after Demelza's child died to save yours!).

You clearly never intended to go back to Elizabeth as you left her to marry George ... you then get angry because Demelza won't forgive you for being a d**k.


Unless he does something to redeem himself next episode all my faith in him is gone.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

Exactly! After watching ep 9, I have the same question as Elizabeth did - why did he come that night? Why did he try to stop the wedding if he did not intend to follow through with the consequences?

And after it was clear that the wedding was going to take place, why then did he not apologize to Demelza? What kind of a jackass says this - "wait for this thing to play out"?!

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.


What kind of a jackass says this - "wait for this thing to play out"?!


If my husband said that to me I would do more then punch him in the face!

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.


You tell your wife you need time to think about what happened - leave Elizabeth in the lurch (I don't have must sympathy for her after Demelza's child died to save yours!).


Demelza's choices are sometimes impulsive to the point of being idiotic. Demelza alone is responsible for the death of her daughter Julia…such a strange plot hole from season 1. It's not as if 18th century people didn't understand the concepts of contagion and quarantine, and that babies and young children who contracted diphtheria had a nearly 100% mortality rate.

During this season, she goes fishing in rough seas, goes into labor, and is struggling to make shore when Ross rescues her. I found myself thinking that this woman seems hell-bent on not only killing herself, but all Poldark progeny as well.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

She may have known better then to go and see them while they were sick. However, this does not make up for Elizabeth doing that to her. She is alive because of Demelza - what a great way to pay her back. Then again Elizabeth is an incredibly selfish person.

With Ross giving all his money away to Elizabeth and sinking all of the rest of his money into that mine (come on Ross get a job!) Demelza was trying to at least ensure they had food on the table! Ross should have been the one going out on the boat to ensure his heavily pregnant wife didn't need to worry about eating!

Shame Ross can't see all the scarifies Demelza has done for him - instead he betrays her!

Ross is simply now showing his true colours. Yes he is someone who sticks up for the working man etc and has great ideals. However, he has no issues screwing over his great love Elizabeth and his wife who has put up with a lot more then Elizabeth every will!

Rant over lol.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.


Demelza's choices are sometimes impulsive to the point of being idiotic. Demelza alone is responsible for the death of her daughter Julia…such a strange plot hole from season 1. It's not as if 18th century people didn't understand the concepts of contagion and quarantine, and that babies and young children who contracted diphtheria had a nearly 100% mortality rate.

During this season, she goes fishing in rough seas, goes into labor, and is struggling to make shore when Ross rescues her. I found myself thinking that this woman seems hell-bent on not only killing herself, but all Poldark progeny as well.

That's a fair comment. Demelza is shown to be quite a naïve and impetuous person who follows her heart. But the reason she went to Trenwith was because she wanted to make amends for the trouble she had caused between the two families over Verity's elopement. She also felt that she had deprived Francis and Elizabeth of Verity's help in their time on need.

The other thing to remember is that people, especially the poor, lived with death and disease every day. There was no squeamishness about it like there is now, and no hospitals to run to. People had to help each other, and risk the consequences.

Demelza laudably, if somewhat recklessly, goes fishing to put food on the table.




If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

Ross is reckless all the time...

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.


Ross is reckless all the time...

Exactly, RM.

Ross is forced to admit this (most likely on more than one occasion, if I could but find the quotes):

And, though at first he struggled to deny it, he could not in the end fail to acknowledge that the feeling moving in her had moved him no differently in the matter of Jim Carter. Could he blame her for the sort of impulse on which he had acted himself?







If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.


Demelza's choices are sometimes impulsive to the point of being idiotic.

Even if they are, how is this relevant to the discussion of Ross' infidelity and Demelza's outrage over it?

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.


Even if they are, how is this relevant to the discussion of Ross' infidelity and Demelza's outrage over it?


It's not at all relevant because I was not discussing Ross's infidelity and/or Demelza's outrage. I was responding to what I quoted in the gray box from a previous poster. That being that Elizabeth owed Demelza because Elizabeth was responsible for Julia's death; Julia was sacrificed so that Elizabeth's son might live…or some notion like that.

Demelza is responsible for her daughter's death. During the diphtheria outbreak, she went to Trenwith with less than completely noble and selfless intentions in an attempt make 'amends' for the terrible mess that she created in being involved with the Verity/Captain Blamey affair. Francis blamed Ross for helping Verity; Ross had nothing to do with it. In retribution against Ross, Francis told George of all Ross's business partners and investors in the smelting company. George called in loans and destroyed the copper company and bankrupted Ross and all of the investors, some of whom would face debtor's prison. I'm sure that I'm forgetting some of the gory details.

Now I'm sure that Demelza didn't intend any of these awful things to happen. She had married into a family and culture that she didn't understand. Although on a practical level, it seems to me that Demelza, before returning home to her family, could at least have hung around Trenwith for a few days after the crisis had passed to see if she were becoming ill herself. I apologize for rambling on beyond the scope of your question and I would never defend Ross's infidelity, but I do think there's a fair amount of outrage to spread around.

My mother has an old saying that she uses on occasion. Something to the effect of "God save me from well-meaning people." I think of that saying when I think of Demelza.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

Were you in this forum discussing this issue in 2015, by any chance? I remember a series of animated posts here arguing for the "Demelza is a killer" premise. I'm not proposing to reignite that debate; I just want to be sure that I'm correctly recalling the context.

In any event, the OP by Carmypug in this thread is substantially correct, because we know that Elizabeth herself accepts the proposition that Demelza saved the life of Geoffrey Charles at the cost of Julia's life. Elizabeth acknowledged that explicitly in Series 1, episode 8. Therefore, regardless of whether Demelza was being brave and resourceful or insanely imprudent, Elizabeth owes her a debt of gratitude. This adds an extra layer of betrayal to Liz's adultery with Ross, just as Hugh Armitage's violation of the Ross-Demelza marriage was worse because Hugh owed Ross a debt of gratitude for saving his life.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

Don't think you could acuse Liz of adultery she was a widow and the seduction scene was virtually rape, the only thing Liz was guilty of was thinking Ross would leave his family for her.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

Well, of course if Elizabeth was raped she can't be blamed for the VBT itself, but the "Was it rape?" topic has been discussed at length in other threads. I think the majority view of the TV adaptation is that the act probably was intended to be consensual, although I share the perspective that there were very unfortunate coercive overtones present as well. Anyway, technically adultery is usually defined to include both extramarital sex by a married person and extramarital sex with a married person.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

Elizabeth is guilty of emotionally cheating on Francis while he still lived. And this despite Ross having described his wife to her (in s1) as "the love of my life."

According to Debbie Horsfield's description of her interpretation, it was consensual, so Elizabeth is also guilty of having sex with another woman's husband.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

despite saying no 3 times, it was rape, if that went before any court it would be rape. What is emotionally cheating😀 if there is such thing everyone in the world is guilty of it!

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Emotional cheating can actually be worse than the physical kind, especially when it interferes with the intimacy of a married couple. Elizabeth denied Francis her affections (and her body) because she was mooning over Ross (or in the books, she only loved herself and enjoyed having Ross's attentions).

And I know what rape is -- even if Horsfield is crap at writing consensual sex. The point is that the intention of the scene, as described by its writer, the actors who portrayed it, and the director, is consensual sex. And that is how this topic is being discussed.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

Well Delmeza as bad for flirting with the Captain then.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

I disagree. There's a difference between flirting and yearning. Demelza didn't have feelings for MacNeil, whereas Elizabeth supposedly does (in this adaptation, at least).

Elizabeth withheld her affections from Francis whilst yearning for Ross. That is emotional cheating.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.


Elizabeth withheld her affections from Francis whilst yearning for Ross. That is emotional cheating.

Not only that, but at the Penvenen "engagement" party, and after Francis died, she kept Ross emotionally tied to her. If she had been honourable, she would have kept her feelings to herself. Once she realized how much she owed Demelza, she should have let Ross go.
I'm not blaming the victim in any way, but if you believe that the VBT was r@ape, at least you will admit that Elizabeth was responsible for keeping Ross interested.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

In fact I'm pretty sure Elizabeth says she does not know what she could do to repay them. Apparently in her head this is wishing for a husband to leave his wife for her!

Sad when I'm starting to thing George as horrible as he is, is the most honest character in the show. He is nasty and back stabbing but at least you will know where you stand with him and can't really be blamed if he does this to you as you would except it from him!

I prefer people as nasty as they are to be truthful and don't go behind people's backs and treat them like Elizabeth has Demelza. I think George is the perfect match for her!

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.


During the diphtheria outbreak, she went to Trenwith with less than completely noble and selfless intentions in an attempt make 'amends' for the terrible mess that she created in being involved with the Verity/Captain Blamey affair. Francis blamed Ross for helping Verity; Ross had nothing to do with it. In retribution against Ross, Francis told George of all Ross's business partners and investors in the smelting company. George called in loans and destroyed the copper company and bankrupted Ross and all of the investors, some of whom would face debtor's prison. I'm sure that I'm forgetting some of the gory details.



Oh for Pete's sake.
Let's not hold Francis responsible for blabbing. Let's not hold George responsible for his dirty deeds.

Francis was determined to blame Ross for everything "bad" at that point, with or without justification.

George was determined to ruin everyone who dared challenge him in his under-handed business practices.

All the investors in Carnmore knew the risks -- and accepted them -- when they joined Ross's venture.

But hey, let's just conveniently blame it all on Demelza.


My mother has an old saying that she uses on occasion. Something to the effect of "God save me from well-meaning people." I think of that saying when I think of Demelza.


Well-meaning people like Ross? Like when Ross shot his mouth off at Jim's trial? Like when Ross always takes jabs at George every opportunity he gets, which is why George has been gunning for him from the beginning? And which is why George keeps upping the ante?

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

Well said.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.


Demelza's choices are sometimes impulsive to the point of being idiotic.


In that, then, she and Ross are equally matched.


During this season, she goes fishing in rough seas, goes into labor, and is struggling to make shore when Ross rescues her.


I didn't notice Ross offering to go.

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In that, then, she and Ross are equally matched.

I didn't notice Ross offering to go.

👍







If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

Ross: Elizabeth was born to be admired.

Demelza: And I was born to pull turnips.

Who the hell do you think women both relate to and truly admire. 😀

It's the woman who succeeds and errs on effort, not the one who attempts to capture and seduce any man in the closest vicinity.

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It's the woman who succeeds and errs on effort, not the one who attempts to capture and seduce any man in the closest vicinity.

I agree that such a character would connect with modern audiences. However, most likely, "entice and capture" was the only thing Elizabeth was trained in. In adversity, she fell back to the skills that she did possess. I suppose if she had a different role model, she would have acquired new skills to manage the Trenwith estate by herself. After all, she was still in her twenties; not too old to learn new tricks. :)

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

It is unfortunate to agree with this description of Elizabeth because she was aided and abetted by everyone around her. Early on in her marriage to Francis, Verity scolds her for having walked a few dozen feet to a small hen house - that would not produce sufficient numbers of eggs for the daily family breakfast - and informs her that the Mistress of The House is not to do hard work. She is to entertain graciously, look beautiful at all times, and Pray God, deliver a male infant asap. While Liz had to rest in bed after her pregnancy was announced to the family (at their insistence because an heir might be born).

I have no doubt that she admired Demelza who was even out fishing in her seventh month of pregnancy. All of that pampering, knitting, crocheting, and other creative arts must have been cause for why Liz never got over RP and his 'real way of life."

Ms D could be expected to continue with manual labor and none suggest that she might benefit from a break to put up her feet and sip some hot tea. Well, if she had made the tea herself, she might have sat down for a bit. I've not seen anyone rushing to help her unless she was dying.

Now, Ladies and Gentlemen: the details above about Mrs RP are the genesis of the famous phrase: "Do I have to DIE in order to get a cup of hot tea!!"





A Checkered Life speaks of myriad diverse adventures being the rewards of endless curiosity.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

I hate what Ross did, and I hate his excuses to Demelza. But I have to admit that I am enjoying the angst and drama between this couple. I am loving the acting. Kudos to Aidan Turner and Eleanor Tomlinson.

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." ~Albert Einstein

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

👍 👌 👏

The actors are outstanding in creating such diverse feelings among their world wide audience. So many lovely millions of individual viewers riled up over 200+ year old fictional characters from a writer who created them long ago in the 20th Century!

What could be more lively, entertaining, thought provoking, and fun that going backward in time to experience real life through imaginary people?


Thank You BBC for providing a topic worthy of removing my attention from Hillary and the Duck.





A Checkered Life speaks of myriad diverse adventures being the rewards of endless curiosity.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.


a topic worthy of removing my attention from Hillary and the Duck


When is your election? Surely it can't be far away now - It seems to have been a major topic even on our news down here in the Antipodes for years 😞

I spoke to my sister-in-law (in America) last week and she said she's not voting for either candidate but, to my mind (that happily accepts compulsory voting as we have here), if you don't vote you forfeit the right to complain about the outcome 😉. Thankfully, our election campaigns run for about 6 weeks or so before the big day (not that there's not a lot of posturing and finger-pointing via the media beforehand - and watching question-time can be like watching a pack of very unruly, rude 5 year old children .... if children did act like our pollies do when they're sitting in the House, they'd be severely chastised by their elders 😣)

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Us kiwis have it similar here! Then again our biggest political scandal last year was the current PM tugging on a waitresses pony tail :P

I don't see why they can't have other people in the leaders debates? Maybe if they could a third party would have a chance? Both don't look all that promising 😨.

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LOL! Hillary and the duck...too funny. Thank the holy heavens the election is very very soon (in a few days)......if I never see another political ad it will be too soon still.

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You know what really stumps me? Donald Trump has gazillions of dollars, but he's too tight to either find a decent hairdresser or get that bloody awful stringy excuse for a head of hair shaved off. He can't help what he looks like, but he's bloody fugly with that perched on his noggin!

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.


You know what really stumps me? Donald Trump has gazillions of dollars, but he's too tight to either find a decent hairdresser or get that bloody awful stringy excuse for a head of hair shaved off. He can't help what he looks like, but he's bloody fugly with that perched on his noggin!


I have wondered exactly the same thing. I mean get some surgical hairplugs or a better wig/toupe/whatever THAT is on his head. I say we get him a tricorn..that just makes every man look better.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

Our Election Day is next Tuesday, November 8th; however, between ten and fifteen percent of the country who received their ballots by mail have voted. I sent mine in last week as have most of my friends. As far as I know, we are all voting for Hillary.

What truly fries some of my follicles is that our General Colin Powell, who could have been the first black American President if he would have run for election some years back, ALSO used a private server during his time as Secretary of State! Several high ranking congressional people and even a few US Governors have private servers.

If the Law has been written that it isn't right, then it is not right. Yet I find it so fascinating and hypocritical that WE have public information about others and only Hillary matters because she is running for election. If something is wrong, then all the wrong doers need to feel the whip.

Yes, we are all going to be so relieved when this fiasco with the Duck(ing this and ducking that) is over. Unless he wins, of course. Then we have to sincerely pray that the anxiety we fear does not come to fruition and that some respectable vestige of our nation remains intact for our future.




A Checkered Life speaks of myriad diverse adventures being the rewards of endless curiosity.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

DT is bulbous and overinflated in both personality and income. Net worth approximates $150.00m.

Branson, Buffett, Bloomberg, et al, billionaires in their own right throw the orange anus under the bus repeatedly for his lies/mis-representations.

America is moderate and finds preference in not only caring for it's own but welcoming others. "Comic journalism does not represent who we are."

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.


but, to my mind (that happily accepts compulsory voting as we have here), if you don't vote you forfeit the right to complain about the outcome.


Excellent, Ms Marmalade! I will remember your comment and ask anyone I hear complain about the government in the next four years if s/he voted. If not, I will inform the person that her/his right to complain has an automatic moratorium, so Shut Up! Love it.

As some people say: Good on You! Thanks for sharing!





A Checkered Life speaks of myriad diverse adventures being the rewards of endless curiosity.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.


if you don't vote you forfeit the right to complain about the outcome 😉. Thankfully, our election campaigns run for about 6 weeks or so before the big day


I very much agree with you, which is why I am voting even though both parties have bottom of the barrel candidates. I do think election reform is much needed in the US. Term limits, a much shorter election period, debates with each candidate answering the same question centered on policy, limits on campaign spending, and limits on PACS etc are a good start.

Re: Ugh Poldark ... episode nine.

Totally agree with your suggested reforms, NMadura!

I want to add another: breakup the two party system because of the law that passed in the last ten years that forces us to declare R or D in order to vote in a Primary. I have been an Independent my whole voting life across both sides of the aisle.

The two-party system is a lie because Mr. Duck had proven he is not even an R, with cursing out so many R's who have been disgusted at his behavior with women and other nefarious shenanigans such as inviting the Russians to hack her server. (!?!) He's a person looking for a crown and throne, not an office with a desk. It definitely has caused me some anxiety that the degree of separation with achieving his goal narrows every day.

If this situation with the private server had not happened, I would have been totally fine with Hillary for Prez; but, having it come into the play as a serious issue, I have now voted against the other candidate, rather than for her. We are in a sad place right now.

Oh, well. As one of my best friends always states at moments like this: It is what it is, and a barrel of manure will not grow roses from those seeds, m'dear!

BTW, NMadura, I have wanted to tell you how much I enjoy your very thoughtful reflections on contributions I have made while on this board. There are a number of people who are obviously huge fans of the show, while also discerning a number of sides to the program, stories, characters, and possibilities.

It has been a pleasure to have found my way here to enjoy the variety of people and comments. Many thanks to you and several others!





A Checkered Life speaks of myriad diverse adventures being the rewards of endless curiosity.
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