Poldark : So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

I hope not - I loved my Sunday night fix of gazing at her perfect face!


You're my wife now.

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

She'll be back 😃

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!





You're my wife now.

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

She becomes the second leading lady of the series. She basically replaces Elizabeth.

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

Cool!


You're my wife now.

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

Elizabeth is still important; she's one of the swans in the title of the 6th novel. Demelza, Elizabeth, Caroline and Morwenna are the four swans in The Four Swans.

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

Not for the reasons I suspect you like Caroline Carl but I am beginning to like her :)

Don't be late, don't hesitate, this dream can pass just as fast as lightning.

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

I kind of would like to see her and Dwight together

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

You'll get your wish

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

Thank you, MarmaladeT!

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

I am enjoying the Dwight/Caroline relationship.

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." ~Albert Einstein

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

I am enjoying people looking forward to the Four Swans because each time I remember stories of how vicious swans can be if they think you have crossed them. Or, even if they think that you might crossed them. Or, if they don't like you near them. Or, if the clouds leave a shadow when they prefer the sunshine.

Otherwise they are truly lovely, excellent parents, and pose beautifully for photos. 📷

Perhaps WG was having a laugh, or - at least - a smile, at his audience.





A Checkered Life speaks of myriad diverse adventures being the rewards of endless curiosity.

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!


I remember stories of how vicious swans can be if they think you have crossed them. Or, even if they think that you might crossed them. Or, if they don't like you near them. Or, if the clouds leave a shadow when they prefer the sunshine.


LOL, you have definitely pegged swans correctly. Despite being a beautiful animal, they are very nasty, territorial, and protective. I live in an area with a lot of lakes and reservoirs with plenty of waterfowl (ducks, geese, swans, etc). Everyone knows, even my golden retriever who loves the water, to stay away, far away from the swans because they will go after anything that comes close.

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

Hello, nmadura!

Thank you for confirming from real life situations what I have read about, but never have seen; not even in a documentary.

With this matter confirmed, why do you think Winston Graham named the book as he did: The Four Swans? Was he being ironic, or worse, sarcastic? After all, he is the one who created and placed these women in the situations they have experienced.

Demelza certainly has not deserved her fate at WG's hands, although he may have earned fame and some amount of fortune with creating her strong heart, loyalty to those she loved, and utter persistence in the face of physical and emotional hardship.

And, disgustingly at times, he used Ross to denigrate her in worse manner than her enemies with not fully apologizing or making complete amends, but causing additional cuts with his stiff-necked stupidity: "You know how long I had loved her, so you should have understood! More fool you, Demelza, for trusting the words I have told you when things were going well." Or, "Yes, I promised you that I would not put us in danger - yet, once again - with doing _______________ (fill in the blank) but we need it this time, so just suck it up and do not give me any pain with your whining!"

As much as I have loved Ross since 1975, I had forgotten how utterly thoughtless and cruel he could be to Demelza. With this new version, I have come to see him as a man with little to no rational behavior and only passion as his driver. Why WG did not give the man an iota of logic or self discipline is now very painful to watch being played out on the small screen that I own.

I have been wondering who Ross Poldark could have been if he had ever truly learned from his mistakes, rather than excusing his continual, rash actions again his faithful wife. But then, again, it all returns to Mr. Graham's writing.

This is all to say that I am mystified at Demelza being one of the swans, unless it is purely for her beauty.

Excellent marks to Robin Ellis and Aiden Turner for each portrayed the character fully and with grace and for having made him very sympathetic and a man of the people.





A Checkered Life speaks of myriad diverse adventures being the rewards of endless curiosity.

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

You have brought up some very interesting discussion points, which I am not prepared to answer without thinking more about them.

My quick reply is-

Swans - I don't know WG's exposure to natural swan behavior and they display very real aggressive behavior. He may have used swans to symbolize beauty, protectiveness, and strength. All 4 women are described as desirable in looks (I'm not so sure of Morwenna?) they are all strong and overcome or persevere through considerable obstacles in their path. Elizabeth, who even though she appears weak, does what she must in the manner she knows. And they all can be quite aggressive if they are thwarted: they are willing to fight for what they want in various overt and covert ways.


As much as I have loved Ross since 1975, I had forgotten how utterly thoughtless and cruel he could be to Demelza. With this new version, I have come to see him as a man with little to no rational behavior and only passion as his driver. Why WG did not give the man an iota of logic or self discipline is now very painful to watch being played out on the small screen that I own.


Ross, I don't think is as thoughtless or irrational as you believe. He is a gambler but there is rationality in the madness. Elizabeth is the one truly irrational thread in his life. Smuggling, the gambles on the mines, the antagonistic behavior to George are not safe behaviors but there is reason he chooses this path and it isn't necessarily to be cruel and unthoughtful of Demelza or his family. If he made the safe and thoughtful choices it could be argued that he and his family would have descended to little better than subsistence farmers. Ross is a very complex paradoxical character and that is what makes him interesting to me. Frankly, I may be in a minority, I wouldn't be terribly engaged in a story about saintly Demelza and her wonderful thoughtful husband. Cinderella doesn't tell us about life in the castle with Prince Charming because it would be boring - just my opinion, you are free to disagree totally.

He has little options for income, his small, poor soil farm would certainly not support a growing family, his tenants, and his workers, all of which he has some responsibility for. He gambles on the mines (the old adage it takes money to make money and big risk/big rewards), which eventually do pay off for everyone concerned in the venture. Smuggling provides much needed hard cash on a temporary basis and was largely acceptable, if not legal, to the average Cornishman. Even the higher classes bought smuggled goods in support of the smugglers. No one liked or respected the excise men. Reckless, yes, but when one is desperate one is willing to take risks. Helping Mark escape was helping an old friend instead of condemning him to death by letting him be caught. The shipwreck was a way to provide vitally needed goods to the community, not totally altruistic but as Ross says in court would it not be insane to wait for the customs officials. The antagonism towards George is born of personal dislike/hatred but there is also an element of showing that all of Cornwall does not have to bow down before the greedy, heartless big bankers. The Warleggens are not masters of the universe and before Ross returned there were few who would or could challenge the Warleggens. When Ross does have the means, he diversifies his business interests and insulated the family fortune somewhat from the reliance on the mine's output. Finally I don't think one can discount that a war veteran's combat experience shapes and changes a individual no matter what war.

As far as women go, we look at his character through late 20th and 21st century feminism. I can't and won't justify his behavior to his wife. I certainly would not put up with that from my husband but then I have options and much greater choices than a woman in Demelza situation in 1790s. Men's and society's attitudes have changed so much it is hard to empathize or understand the character's point of view in that respect. So I have to be content with the knowledge that overall in the course of a long term marriage his behavior is more loving than cruel. Men in that time were not in touch with "feelings" or "feminine side".

Re: So is that Caroline out of the show for good now?!

nmaudra what an excellent post, so thoughtful and insightful!


As far as women go, we look at his character through late 20th and 21st century feminism. I can't and won't justify his behavior to his wife. I certainly would not put up with that from my husband but then I have options and much greater choices than a woman in Demelza situation in 1790s. Men's and society's attitudes have changed so much it is hard to empathize or understand the character's point of view in that respect. So I have to be content with the knowledge that overall in the course of a long term marriage his behavior is more loving than cruel. Men in that time were not in touch with "feelings" or "feminine side".


I know there has been a great deal of discussion about Ross' lack of sensitivity regarding Demelza's feeling and to some extent, I agree. I believe that both Ross and Demelza are their own worst enemies.


To him it seemed impossible after what had happened that he should force his presence on her upstairs; to her it seemed that one contact with Elizabeth had rendered his wife disgusting to him.


Demelza states that it was not that she couldn't forgive what Ross did but that she didn't know if her forgiveness was something that he even care about. And Ross could not explain or justify or ask for forgiveness for what he had done because what he had done was unforgivable.

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