Poldark : Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


old tartar that she was

That's an expression you don't hear very often, MT. When I say it, people just look at me blankly!

I've been married for 42 years. It's the responsibility of both partners to keep working at the relationship, to continue to be kind to one another, interested in one another, appreciative of one another, not to take the other for granted. It's so easy to let things slide when you've been together for a long time. But there is no excuse for disloyalty.







If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

I agree sg!

I don't want to be misunderstood in what I am saying. I wish that Demelza fighting spirit had showed up long before the VBT and not after it. Let's face it Demelza loves Ross and she knew that he had these unresolved feelings for Elizabeth but she did nothing to assert herself, to demand his attention. She accepts his neglect and her jealousy about Elizabeth. She doesn't ask what Ross and Elizabeth's weekly meetings were about, she just sat by and waited for something to happen. She should have confronted him and made her feelings know that she was not happy with him meeting Elizabeth alone. If he must meet with Elizabeth once a week, then she should told Ross to invite Elizabeth to their house for tea or something. She should have made her feelings known about Ross giving Elizabeth six hundred pounds. She tells Verity that she has faith in Ross most of the time but she doesn't really. She is very inactive at this stage of their marriage instead being proactive. It is only after the VBT that she makes Ross realise that he could very well lose her because of his actions, she should have made that very clear before it ever happened.

Ross was wrong, no doubt about it and nothing excuses infidelity.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


And maybe sleep with his one, good eye open.


That's golden!



-Seeking perfection in life is dangerous because it makes the less perfect less than enough-VPBlamey

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


No one forced Ross to marry Demelza
Things then were not like they are today for women. Ross is a decent man. He married her because he knew what her life would be like with a damaged reputation, living with her religiously insane father.



If you'd be fine watching this evolving between a husband/partner of yours and someone else then that's great for you.
I would not enter into a relationship with a man who I knew was holding a torch for another woman.



I think it's Ross who should be prepared to deal with the outcome HE created. And maybe sleep with his one, good eye open.
If Ross had to sleep with one eye open, I'm sure that would endear him to Demelza 'til the end of time.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

That's why I prefer Rees' 'Demelza'.This one doesn't do it for me. I liked her true fieriness, and they made sure to play up her cheeky roguishness - much like I expected from this Demelza when she was first introduced. (All that actual physical squabbles she and Ross used to have😂)*speaking of Oldark*
To be honest, I think Demelza was chattel to Ross especially as written. In my view she worshipped Ross a bit too much and he? I got the feeling that if she ever left him (recall she threatened to but never actually did), he would shrug and continue with his life. No torch carrying there.
So I really appreciated the real feistiness and spiritedness Anghaarad brought to the role. It made the character's fate for me a bit more digestible.

'For His mercies endures forever ' - Psalms

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


In this series Liz and Ross were not going to run away together
Um. No, I was responding to your earlier post where you typed:

In the older version (whether true to the books or not) Ross and Elizabeth planned to defy convention and run away together.


Of course he liked Demelza. She turned his house into a home but he was not ready to make that kind of commitment. This should be obvious to everybody.
Wow, men really don't need to take any responsibility for their actions in your world...? Whether he was ready for commitment or not, he chose to commit.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Yes men are responsible for their actions. I did not intend to excuse Ross for his part in what happened that night. I said that he tried to stop it and was not ready for a lifetime commitment however nicely things may have turned out for them.

He chose to make love to her that night. He didn't choose to make a lifetime commitment. There wasn't too much time or care for thinking things out.

Although he and Elizabeth missed their time, he was still clinging to the ghost.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Okay, he chose to make love to her that night and he chose to go after her when she left and chose to marry her when he could just continued having her without marrying her. He is a man of the world, a soldier and nobody, least of all Demelza, forced him to make a life commitment. What was Ross to do? Carry a torch for Elizabeth forever and never try to find some form of happiness for himself? He didn't love Demelza when he married her and Demelza knew that, but she could take away his loneliness, give him companionship, give him love and a family. What did Elizabeth have to offer him?

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


Okay, he chose to make love to her that night and he chose to go after her when she left and chose to marry her when he could just continued having her without marrying her. He is a man of the world, a soldier and nobody, least of all Demelza, forced him to make a life commitment. What was Ross to do? Carry a torch for Elizabeth forever and never try to find some form of happiness for himself? He didn't love Demelza when he married her and Demelza knew that, but she could take away his loneliness, give him companionship, give him love and a family. What did Elizabeth have to offer him?

👍



If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


Okay, he chose to make love to her that night and he chose to go after her when she left and chose to marry her when he could just continued having her without marrying her. He is a man of the world, a soldier and nobody, least of all Demelza, forced him to make a life commitment. What was Ross to do? Carry a torch for Elizabeth forever and never try to find some form of happiness for himself? He didn't love Demelza when he married her and Demelza knew that, but she could take away his loneliness, give him companionship, give him love and a family. What did Elizabeth have to offer him?


Precisely. And let's not forget that this story is set during a period when marrying for convenience was actually the norm among Ross's station; marrying for love was unconventional.

It was better for Ross to get married, to become "settled." Marriage provided him with a companion to help him with Nampara. A wife could help him move forward from his disappointment over Elizabeth. Uncle Charles made a good point that Ross's marriage gave Francis some security about Elizabeth.

Ross needed to marry someone, and if he couldn't marry Elizabeth, it was never going to be Ruth Teague or some other young lady from the county. It could never be that easy with Ross. It had to be complicated.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


I said that he tried to stop it and was not ready for a lifetime commitment

He tried to stop it after the first kiss because he did not want to take advantage of Demelza. His father, Joshua, had been a libertine and he tried hard not to be like Joshua. I don't think either of them was thinking of lifetime commitments when they kissed or when they slept together.


He didn't choose to make a lifetime commitment. There wasn't too much time or care for thinking things out.

Not at night, but after Elizabeth left, he thought things through while he sharpened his scythe. And then he chose to make a lifetime commitment. As per the Poldark scripts, he slowly, carefully sharpens his scythe and then sighs as he comes to a decision. Then he calls out to Demelza.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

What a fascinating, thoughtful, thoroughly entertaining conversation you all have been having! I so admire the conviction, different opinions, and most of all, the respect in which your give and take has occurred. Love it!


Not at night, but after Elizabeth left, he thought things through while he sharpened his scythe. And then he chose to make a lifetime commitment. As per the Poldark scripts, he slowly, carefully sharpens his scythe and then sighs as he comes to a decision. Then he calls out to Demelza.

Helen, your review of Ross's behavior following Elizabeth's visit was great. Thank you for that clear, elegant description that characterizes Ross Poldark's extremely pragmatic nature. The scene summaries how he makes the decisions witnessed in this series. He has a challenge that he examines; when it is clear to him with a resolution in mind, he carries it out. There is never Plan A or B; just one Plan. It would be the right one for the situation. I can imagine that he would think of it with a capital letter.

Quite frankly, if WG had written Ross in the same fashion as George W, Poldark would never have been made. Ever. GW is lovely and very exciting against Ross and truly boring against Francis. That looong scene where GW visits Trenwith, gives them £1200 and cuts several debts, then sits for hours (!!!) drinking with Francis so that he vomits out the names of those working with Ross's smelter deal . . . I nearly went to sleep. The scene was necessary, but couldn't the director have had them playing pool or walking while talking. Yikes!

Anyway, my summary about Ross and Demelza - or any couple in similar situations - coming together is based on two principles:
(1) Is from physics in considering the attraction of an irresistible force and an immovable object when in close proximity to each other, which is what happened when Ross brought Demelza home to be the kitchen servant;and
(2) Is a quote from 1980 by one of my favorite singer-poets: "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

Their coming together was not planned by either one, yet it was a foregone conclusion for most people once she was scrubbed-up and began talking back to him. Lots of energy, spunk, tenacity, can-do/will-do attitude, miner's kid, ironic, etc. The timing of things actually happening in real life is because of the ingredients and their unique arrangements. Timing can be the magic. Ross and Demelza were too close for their comfort and some had to give. (Excellent writing, Mr. Graham!)

He and Elizabeth lost out because of the three-years spent across the Pond. She's already out of his orbit when he returns. The memories are smoke and less than that. Then, he steps in to break up a fight, take home the waif, and they where suddenly living in the same for walls as she was growing from fifteen (?) to older with lots of everyday changing going on.

And having "Prudy and Jud edycate" her is the reason "the wedding was their fault!" Not hers. Not his. I always love that type of illogical reasoning.




A Checkered Life speaks of myriad diverse adventures being the rewards of endless curiosity.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


your review of Ross's behavior following Elizabeth's visit was great.

Thank you! I am new to this forum; I watched the first season in May this year and have lurked since then.

the conviction, different opinions, and most of all, the respect in which your give and take has occurred.

Yes, I also admire the respectful discussions the veteran posters have been having and have thoroughly enjoyed the informed opinions and explanations they have put out. I just wish IMDB would not archive/delete older discussions so quickly. I am sure I've missed out on many great posts from last year when season 1 aired in the UK.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


Anyway, my summary about Ross and Demelza - or any couple in similar situations - coming together is based on two principles:
(1) Is from physics in considering the attraction of an irresistible force and an immovable object when in close proximity to each other, which is what happened when Ross brought Demelza home to be the kitchen servant;and
(2) Is a quote from 1980 by one of my favorite singer-poets: "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."



Love this! Love unlooked for is one of my favorite tropes. It brings to mind a line from another song: "God bless the broken road that led me straight to you." Too bad Ross is such a dunce that it takes him years to figure this out.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


He tried to stop it after the first kiss because he did not want to take advantage of Demelza. His father, Joshua, had been a libertine and he tried hard not to be like Joshua. I don't think either of them was thinking of lifetime commitments when they kissed or when they slept together.


Taking advantage of her, as he knew, would have had a profound impact on her life while he would have had no repercussions at all.

If he cared for her, he would have known it would be a lifetime commitment. He did respect and care for her so it did turn into a lifetime commitment. He was not at the love stage and there were still those unresolved feelings for Elizabeth, however delusionary they may have been.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Just watched episode 8 and what an intense one it was too! The scene in Elizabeth's chamber was very well done and as a Team Demelza girl (is there really any other team to be on? :p) I did not find it too awful to experience!

But I am annoyed at Ross's arrogance upon return from the VBT. He would've been better to say nothing at all than suggest he had no choice. Of course he literally didn't - the narrative dictates it so but this is why this adaptation has messed up a little (again!) in that this Elizabeth has no real alluring qualities. Heida Reed is a good looking woman but in my opinion, the character is flat compared to other female characters. Hasn't Caroline been a triumph this series?

In seeing the clip from Sunday's episode, it seems Ross further shows his complete ignorance toward Demelza's feelings suggesting that its merely only her pride that's been hurt (not broken-hearted, humiliated, or completely let down) and its almost as if he just expects her to get over it as soon as she possibly can. Ahhh *sigh* men, eh?
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