Poldark : Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

And he didn't have to go after her.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

He walked off and closed the door. She sat down. The moment was gone. She chose to go after him. He wasn't ready for the consequences of his behavior.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

"You know what people say of us?" says Ross
"Yes" says Demelza
"If we behave like this. It will be true." says Ross
"Then let it be true." says Demelza

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

That was Demelza callously throwing away her reputation. She revived the moment and Ross was not able to resist this time. From the way she behaved the next day, she was confident it was not a one time deal.

So do you think she was going to be his mistress or did she expect that he was going to marry her?

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

But.... Demelza left (or tried to)so I think might would the answer to your question. It didn't seem she felt welcome to stay and thought she should go. Ross...WENT AFTER HER and wanted her to stay...just as visualcookie said a couple of posts above. So Demelza didn't seem to expect either of the things you asked.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

She left after she had burst in on the little tête-à-tête between Ross and Elizabeth, with her bundle of blue flowers. They closed her out and her bubble was burst. That is when she set out for home. I'm not criticizing her for feeling the way she did and hoping.

My lack of sympathy comes from the fact that she knew the history between Ross and Elizabeth and didn't respect his unresolved feelings. This would always have a chance of turning into something bad.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

"she didn't respect his unresolved feelings?"
Where did you get that from? She has been a most dutiful and loyal wife and not expected much more than kindness and respect in return. She admitted to Verity that she knew Ross didn't love her and probably never would. Yet she was content. Only after he admitted that he loved her did she wish him to keep loving and be faithful to her.


They closed her out and her bubble was burst.

As per the Poldark scripts, after she burst in on Ross and Elizabeth, and Ross avoided looking at her, Demelza got the impression that she had earned his contempt and lost his friendship. That is why she decided to leave. She behaved very maturely for a seventeen year old.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


"she didn't respect his unresolved feelings?"


When she seduced him that night (after he ended the moment and left for his bedroom,) she was not respecting his unresolved feelings. This led to the guilt marriage and the rest is history.

In the episode last night, at Francis' funeral, Ross comforted an extremely distraught Elizabeth while Demelza looked on questioning and possibly resenting. Ross was also extremely distraught and as the closest relative this was his duty. They were sharing their most emotional time together since he returned from the war. Demelza made it into something more important than the family grief.

To me, this spoke to the fact that she should have waited until Ross woke up to reality and knew that he wanted her as his wife. This was already in the works as they spent some very nice times together and he treated her as more than just a housemaid. His coming around would not have taken years, more likely just months.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Oh, come on, lol. You can't successfully seduce a man who doesn't want to be seduced. Ross is a grown man who chose to make love to Demelza in that moment because he wanted to. He didn't resist because he didn't want to. Simple as that. I am absolutely against any logic that follows the "men will be men so it's up to the women to help them behave and it's the women's fault if/when they don't". For the record, I don't see the VBT as being Elizabeth's fault either. Ross chose to commit adultery all on his own.

I personally don't think that Demelza ever had any intention of letting Ross know how she felt about him until HE kissed HER first. Once he did, and she had a good idea that he was attracted to her too she decided to follow her feelings. I think that's great. Thank goodness for women like her in the past who were active agents in their lives, who weren't happy to just settle for whatever tradition said they could have, who bucked the definition of what it meant to be feminine in their time, and who railed against the double standards of gender. If not for women like that we wouldn't have the right to vote, to hold office, to forge ahead in once male only professions. Now obviously Demelza isn't planning to lead some feminist revolution, lol. But she has the same inner determination, fire, and spirit to do it if she chose.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

gveronica,

BRAVO ZULU to every danged last word of your post!




Dr Jason Bull: Don't give up on people, they're all we've got.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Thank you!

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Spot on gveronica ...

And we can find evidence throughout the centuries and cross-culturally.

Queen Isabella comes to mind. Although entrenched in the Catholic church and its misdeeds she gave strict instructions to Columbus to treat the islanders well, and when he didn't she withdrew financial support for several years. She was quite the renaissance woman with a talent for negotiation.

Another example, PBS documentaries on Italians in America and Italians in CA. One of the stories of an Italian immigrant whose husband died in CA. She chose to run the farm, secure tenants and carry a weapon to insure safety on her land.

I enjoyed watching Demelza pregnant on the boat pulling in the pilchards ... 😀 She's relatable, lol.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


Oh, come on, lol. You can't successfully seduce a man who doesn't want to be seduced.


Oh, now, how the heck to you know that gveronica? LOL! Just kidding you.

To the rest of your post, BRAVO my darling, bravo!!

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


Thank goodness for women like her in the past who were active agents in their lives, who weren't happy to just settle for whatever tradition said they could have, who bucked the definition of what it meant to be feminine in their time, and who railed against the double standards of gender.
👏👏👏 Well said!

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Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

I don't think you can have much idea of motivations until you read the book. I'm struck by how calculating Demelza is in her seduction of Ross. She's not quite the innocent that she's portrayed in the latest adaptation. But you have to remember how desperate she feels. She loves Nampara and Ross, but feels that Ross's apparent indifference to her would make a return to her unloving father inevitable. So she believes that she has no choice. And, of course, women of her station (or, in fact, of any station) had few choices.

Ross's decision to marry her is entirely pragmatic, but as much for his own convenience as it is for Demelza's welfare. She has "grown into his life", the book says. An agreeable companion, a good homemaker, and now, to his surprise and delight, a desirable lover. All the ingredients for a successful marriage, which Ross comes to appreciate!

Just want to add that, by this time, Elizabeth has been married to Francis for almost four years and is the mother of a nearly three-year-old child. Hardly a relationship on the rebound.





If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

It says in the book after Ross marries Demelza, 'he could have done worse'. Not sure what that means, he had his pick of society ladies, but WG wrote 'he could have done worse'.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


'he could have done worse'

Good ol' British understatement! We're good at it!

It's like when someone asks us how we are, and we reply "Not bad". Lol.





If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Not having read the books, I assume it meant he was pretty much expected to marry a vacuous, but wealthy, society daughter. One that he didn't love, maybe not even liked, to advance his position and property.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


I personally don't think that Demelza ever had any intention of letting Ross know how she felt about him until HE kissed HER first. Once he did, and she had a good idea that he was attracted to her too she decided to follow her feelings.
I think they were both very aware of how they felt about each other. They were definitely headed in the right direction however, he was not there yet. He ended the moment, went in his room for the night and closed the door. She pursued him. I call that seduction. In no way did I excuse Ross.




I am absolutely against any logic that follows the "men will be men so it's up to the women to help them behave and it's the women's fault if/when they don't".
Come on now, it's disingenuous to suggest that I was implying that.





Now obviously Demelza isn't planning to lead some feminist revolution, lol.
Thanks for that although I think you gave her credit for getting us the right to vote.


Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


I think they were both very aware of how they felt about each other. They were definitely headed in the right direction however, he was not there yet. He ended the moment, went in his room for the night and closed the door. She pursued him. I call that seduction. In no way did I excuse Ross.



This is how I see the situation. Unfortunately, IMO Demelza is one of WG's least real main characters and is a little too saintly for my taste. She is written as very noble, idealized and even her more ungenerous feelings(which are negligible)can usually be viewed as justifiable. I believe the audience is meant to wholely sympathize with her in the book and very definitely in Eleanor Tomlison's portrayal - she can almost do no wrong. The night of the blue dress, Demelza did not want to go back to her father, and who can blame her, but she wasn't confident that Ross would fight for her to stay or her position in the household. She decided to seduce him, and it was a seduction when Ross was particularly susceptible. Yes, it takes two to tango but Ross would not have slept with her if she didn't enter his room.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Yes, nmadura.

As I said in my post yesterday, it was definitely a seduction - which, admittedly, doesn't come across that way in the adaptation. I don't think Demelza deliberately chose the moment when Ross was susceptible. It was just a coincidence that her father had called that day. I'm also certain that Demelza didn't plan for it to lead to marriage. She hadn't thought that far ahead.




If there aren't any skeletons in a man's closet, there's probably a Bertha in his attic.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


She decided to seduce him, and it was a seduction when Ross was particularly susceptible. Yes, it takes two to tango but Ross would not have slept with her if she didn't enter his room.


First, I don't think that Demelza realised the effect of Jim Carter going to jail had on Ross. She was concerned with her own problem and that was not wanting to go back to her father's house to become a nurse maid to his next brood of children. Second, after their first kiss Ross knew that he couldn't look at Demelza the same way he had always looked at her, she was now someone he was attracted to. That is why he says "I didn't take you from your father's house for this." I agree that Ross might not have slept with Demelza that night but now he knew he was attracted to her and that their relationship could never be the same.

Then we come to the interesting question as to why Ross decided to marry Demelza when no one would have expected it of him. Was it as he stated "To satisfy an appetite, to save myself from being alone, because it was the right thing to do? I had few expectations at best you'd be a distraction, a bandage to ease a wound." Or was it that despite her humble background that she fit into his life like no one else did. She was his life mate, a person that he could work along side with the same goals and desires from life. She grounded him, she gave him a reason to strive for more, he must have instinctively known that she would always love him and always support him.


Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


Then we come to the interesting question as to why Ross decided to marry Demelza when no one would have expected it of him. Was it as he stated "To satisfy an appetite, to save myself from being alone, because it was the right thing to do? I had few expectations at best you'd be a distraction, a bandage to ease a wound." Or was it that despite her humble background that she fit into his life like no one else did. She was his life mate, a person that he could work along side with the same goals and desires from life. She grounded him, she gave him a reason to strive for more, he must have instinctively known that she would always love him and always support him.


I tend to think the former more pragmatic explanation for why Ross married Demelza at that time. The latter I think is a romanticized view resulting from hindsight on how the relationship developed over many decades of marriage. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this topic.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


He stated, "To satisfy an appetite? To save myself from being alone? Because it was the right thing to do? I had few expectations. At best you'd be a distraction; a bandage to ease a wound."

I agree. Ross was being completely honest when he owned up to these having been his reasons. It was in hindsight that he admitted how extraordinarily lucky he had been to have achieved "Conjugal bliss. A rare commodity." :)


to become a nurse maid to his next brood of children

Just to be clear, this part is in the book, not on the show.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

I will agree that these were some of the reasons that he married Demelza but not all of the reasons that he married her. She had become his companion, his friend, someone that he could talk to, someone who was working along side of him and someone he could have fun with. All of these things would have been lost if he let her go back to her father and all of these things were something that he was not or could not get from Elizabeth.


to become a nurse maid to his next brood of children

Just to be clear, this part is in the book, not on the show.

Yes, you right this wasn't it the show.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


after their first kiss Ross knew that he couldn't look at Demelza the same way he had always looked at her, she was now someone he was attracted to.


I agree that Ross might not have slept with Demelza that night but now he knew he was attracted to her and that their relationship could never be the same.


They had some wonderfully exhilarating moments at Jim's wedding. They were attracted to each other and I don't see how either of them could be oblivious to the fact. Add to that, she lived in the same house and with each new Shepherd's Pie she was solidifying her hold on him. but true.

After the kiss things would have had to change however, it would have been at a slower, more manageable pace, one with which Ross would have been more comfortable, which also might have dispelled any worries Demelza had about his ties to Elizabeth.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Perfectly stated. Thank you. I'm chuffed to know that I am not alone.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


Come on now, it's disingenuous to suggest that I was implying that.


Sorry, I interpreted this comment of yours -

She revived the moment and Ross was not able to resist this time.
- as implying that Ross had no control of his actions and thus no choice in giving in to Demelza's seduction. Thus placing the "blame", or perhaps the greater responsibility, on Demelza. But I stand by my assertion that Ross gave in because he wanted to, just like he kissed her in the first place, sparking the whole thing, because he wanted to kiss her.

I don't disagree that Demelza seduced him but, so what? Whose toes did she step on? Ross was single and unattached. Elizabeth had been married to Ross' cousin for some time by this point. Ross still had feelings for Elizabeth, true, but they were not ones he could act upon and he was attracted to Demelza. So what moral line was she crossing by seducing Ross? What moral line was Ross crossing? I don't think either one were in the wrong in this instance.

Contrast that with Elizabeth's efforts to get Ross to come to her. And, just to reiterate, Ross was just as responsible for the VBT. His actions were his own free choice. But, unlike Demelza's, Elizabeth's actions DID cross lines, step on toes, and betray someone she's purported to consider a friend (going by the show, not books) - someone that she's openly acknowledged she owes her son's life to. Both Elizabeth and Ross crossed moral lines here and betrayed the same person, someone who at this point has done absolutely nothing to deserve such ill consideration.


Thanks for that although I think you gave her credit for getting us the right to vote.


Nope, just pointing out that there was a certain fiery independence of spirit that certain women throughout history needed to possess in order to push at the limits society set for them. I see a similar independent spirit in Demelza and Caroline. Female characters like Elizabeth - the damsel in distress types - hold no interest for me.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


I stand by my assertion that Ross gave in because he wanted to, just like he kissed her in the first place, sparking the whole thing, because he wanted to kiss her.
I completely agree with this.

Going back to my original complaint, what bothered me is that Demelza created the situation wherein Ross, being a gentleman, was forced to marry her. It also created the situation wherein Demelza kept questioning his love and commitment to her. Even in the most recent episode, she was talking about it wearing her trademark furrowed brow. (So much for her fiery independence.) We've watched him being loving toward her and even forgiving of her bad decisions. (That's the kindest way I can characterize her being responsible for the death of her child as well as other enormous events.) I don't see how she could question his love after all they've been through together. Maybe the shakey start with the unresolved feelings and necessary marriage weighed on her mind.

I haven't seen the ep with the VBT yet but did see the scene at the dinner party where Elizabeth drops the bomb on Ross that she made a mistake. This is really the first instance I've seen where Liz is being selfish and uncaring as she causes trouble for Ross and Demelza, testing her hold over him.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


Going back to my original complaint, what bothered me is that Demelza created the situation wherein Ross, being a gentleman, was forced to marry her.


I think that this where you and I disagree, you think Ross was forced to marry Demelza because he was a gentleman and I don't think Ross was forced at all, especially not for being a gentleman. Gentleman in that day and age regularly slept with their servants, they felt they had that right, they did not marry them. Given that, Ross realised that by marry Demelza, he would damned in the eyes of his own class and he was. She didn't expect it as she says to Jud and Prudie "Do you think its not strange to me as it is to you? Do you imagine I ever looked for or expected it?" So, then we get back to why did Ross marry Demelza? If Ross needed more time to consider his decision to marry Demelza, then he should have taken it, because nobody was rushing him into making a proposal. Even after she left, he didn't have to go after her right away.

Demelza may have seduced Ross but she was not looking to raise her station in life, far from it. Marrying Ross was a difficult adjustment for Demelza, she didn't speak properly to be a gentleman's wife and she wasn't an accomplished lady, she didn't know how to read or write and she learned all these things out of love for Ross. What did he have to do? Brood after his first love? Let's not forget that Ross was at least eight to ten years older than Demelza, so the onus was on him not on her. She may have offered but he didn't have to accept.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

What I meant by "gentleman" was kindness of spirit, a considerate soul, someone who thinks and cares about the ramifications of his actions, more like the way we use the term today. I did not mean station in life.

I'm not questioning Demelza's motives, nor do I care whether she wanted to raise her station in life, only that because she pushed the situation and he chose to marry her before he was ready, before his thoughts and feelings about Elizabeth were resolved, both of them were in a strange situation with Elizabeth being the elephant in the room of their union.

I've only been commenting on what I've seen (up to Francis' death & funeral) so at that point there was no VBT. Still Demelza was on and on about her queasiness with Ross and Elizabeth whenever they spoke. This after he overlooked all the problems she caused in the family. I think she should have stopped questioning his love after all that stuff. He always treated her with love and kindness, not just as someone he married, someone who cooked, cleaned and had sex with him.

I guess I'm suggesting that she would not feel this way had they waited until Ross came to see his thing with Elizabeth was something long gone, never to return. You can get to that state, first love or not.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


This after he overlooked all the problems she caused in the family. I think she should have stopped questioning his love after all that stuff. He always treated her with love and kindness, not just as someone he married, someone who cooked, cleaned and had sex with him.


Now, I will agree with you there! Demelza's insecurities get on my nerves as well.


I guess I'm suggesting that she would not feel this way had they waited until Ross came to see his thing with Elizabeth was something long gone, never to return. You can get to that state, first love or not.


Ross does fall in love with Demelza and yet still yearns for Elizabeth, that doesn't change for a very very long time.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


I don't see how she could question his love after all they've been through together.


Given that the VBT happens, I think this seems an odd thing to say. Demelza knows that Elizabeth was Ross' first love and she's witnessed his occasional lingering glances in her direction and, most recently, overheard a very flirtatious conversation between them, which ended in Elizabeth (of all people) reminding him to get back to his wife. I think Demelza has been perfectly justified in her insecurities about the steadfastedness of Ross' love. If your expectation is that Demelza be impervious to all of this, or that she somehow has no right to feel this way, well, that just seems extremely unreasonable to me. Not to mention that the VBT only proves that perceptive Demelza was 100% correct in her concerns.


So much for her fiery independence.


I'm not sure what this little dig is supposed to mean. Are you saying that Demelza can only be one thing all the time? Like all well developed characters, Demelza experiences a range of emotions and states of being. There are areas of her life where she feels confident and others where she doesn't, just like any real human person. If there's a single person who has never experienced doubt or insecurity about something in their lives I'd certainly love to meet them to find out their secret, lol! Otherwise, I fail to see why Demelza should be held to such an unattainable and unrealistic standard.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

See my post to visual cookie just above yours. I think I spoke to most of your questions.




Going back to my original complaint, what bothered me is that Demelza created the situation wherein Ross, being a gentleman, was forced to marry her. It also created the situation wherein Demelza kept questioning his love and commitment to her. Even in the most recent episode, she was talking about it wearing her trademark furrowed brow. (So much for her fiery independence.)


About her fiery independence, it's my feeling that she created the situation where she was always questioning Ross' love, although we've seen a whole season where he treated her with great love, always bowing to her feelings. I don't think I'd doubt someone if they had treated me the way Ross treated her.

I'm saying that she created the situation with her fiery independence and then whimpers up a storm if Ross is in the same room with Elizabeth, speaks to her or mentions her name. If you're going to create a situation, be prepared to deal with the outcome.

Again, Ross had unresolved feelings for Elizabeth. Both Ross and Demelza were aware of it. Demelza seduced him and now she complains about Ross' unresolved feelings.

In a strange sense, Demelza stole Ross from Elizabeth and now she is afraid Elizabeth will steal him back.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


I'm saying that she created the situation with her fiery independence and then whimpers up a storm if Ross is in the same room with Elizabeth, speaks to her or mentions her name. If you're going to create a situation, be prepared to deal with the outcome.


There is a lot of validity in what you are saying. From almost Day 1 Demelza was aware of Ross' feelings for Elizabeth and she had to have known they were never resolved. Demelza does whine, fret, jumps to conclusions (not all of which are correct), and is sometimes just as uncommunicative and/or secretive as Ross. He's not a mind reader. For a fiery, independent, strong woman she never confronts him or even engages in a frank discussion regarding Elizabeth.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


For a fiery, independent, strong woman she never confronts him or even engages in a frank discussion regarding Elizabeth.
True. I never thought of that.

Demelza is working from the inside. She has spent years living with Ross enjoying everything that involves. Elizabeth is on the outside looking in, clinging to ancient emotions covered with spider webs (much like Ross.) If Demelza still feels at a disadvantage, she needs to see a shrink.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

I don't see how Demelza created the situation. No one forced Ross to marry Demelza and his peers certainly did not expect it of him. It was his choice and his choice alone so if anyone created the situation he did. You seem to keep trying to absolve Ross of any sense of agency in all this but from everything I know about life, it takes two to tango.

Ross has also spent almost two full seasons giving Elizabeth lingering glances and Demelza overheard him flirting with her. If it were any other woman Demelza might've brushed it off but it's not. She knows Elizabeth is "the one that got away" in Ross' mind and I don't many women who would be 100% okay with things as they've been playing out. Demelza has been side eyeing Elizabeth exactly because she's not fooled. She's got Elizabeth's number and knows she's trying to get closer to Ross. I suppose you expect Demelza to be impervious to things like jealousy or insecurity in the face of that because so may of the viewing public laud her for her strength of spirit and independent, fiery nature. If you'd be fine watching this evolving between a husband/partner of yours and someone else then that's great for you. In my opinion emotions don't equate to being weak and acting like a stoic, stereotypical man is not the only way for a woman to be strong.


If you're going to create a situation, be prepared to deal with the outcome.


Considering she lays him out flat with one punch, I'd say she's doing just that. I think it's Ross who should be prepared to deal with the outcome HE created. And maybe sleep with his one, good eye open.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Demelza did create the situation by not making sure that Ross didn't look at Elizabeth. Demelza had men flocking to her all the time, she is charming and cheeky, she should have been able to make sure Ross didn't look at Elizabeth at all. This is Francis' pep talk to Demelza and she should have listened.


`I'd be surprised at nothing you think or do except that. You came here as a miner's daughter, married into this ancient derelict family, took its standards as your own. So you mistake your own value, your own vitality, even your value to Ross. There are two qualities in blood; Demelza.-There's the quality of family : and the quality of freshness. Ross was a wise man when he chose you. If he's as sensible as I think he is, he'll realise it. If you're as sensible as you ought to be, you'll make him.'


She feared that something would happen between Ross and Elizabeth but did nothing to stop it from happening. She hid her fears, she hid her pregnancy, she sat twiddling her thumbs, waiting for it to happen and it did.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Sorry, but once again this smacks of the notion that men are not accountable for their own bad decisions and it's the responsibility of women to keep them on their best behavior. In the name of my two daughters, I reject that completely and wholeheartedly.

Ross is a grown man and his actions are his own responsibility. His poor choices are not Demelza's fault; they're not even Elizabeth's fault.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Agree wuth this. Over the years have worked with a few women and their husbands have had affairs. The always choose to blame the women not their hubby's, using the saying "there would be no bad men if it was'nt for bad women'. Ross is at total fault not Demelza or Elizabeth. After last nights episode I fail to see how any of them would want him, his behaviour to Delmeza bad enough but the way he treated Elizabeth, almost like teasing her with the appearance in front of the housee was awful. He could have at least paid her a visit and explained he wanted to stay with his wife although I suspect he still never really knew so probably would'nt have trusted himself.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)


Sorry, but once again this smacks of the notion that men are not accountable for their own bad decisions and it's the responsibility of women to keep them on their best behavior.


Not at all. I am not discounting Ross' actions or that he is not responsible for them. I am saying that Demelza didn't assert herself enough, that she didn't go on the offensive and just waited for Elizabeth to grab Ross' attention away from her.


Fundamentally there was nothing meek or mild about her. She was a fighter, and it showed now.


This is the morning after Ross' return from Elizabeth's and all I am saying is that I wished this part of her character had shown up sooner.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

I think that most people don't like to be accused of infidelity before they've actually committed it, even if they've been secretly fantasizing in that direction. It would have been very difficult for Demelza to say, "Ross, I demand that you stop visiting your cousin and 'nephew' because I know that you're eventually going to betray me! Make your choice right now: Elizabeth, or me." Even if she had used more guarded language, the content of the complaint would have remained clear. Would that approach have worked with Ross? I don't know.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

That is not what I meant at all. The first Christmas at Trenwith, Demelza is the one that showed Elizabeth up, with her youth and vitality. She is a woman that had every man in the county chasing after her, she could have asserted her personality more. Even the scene right before Caroline's engagement party, Ross was pleasantly surprise at the emergence of this beautiful woman that sometimes got lost during daily life. I just think that Demelza became a meek insecure person and those are not very attractive personality traits.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

I think Demelza has been busy trying to keep Ross from doing things that would land him in a hangman's noose, fishing to keep food on their table, and caring for their son to focus on looking pretty or desirable for Ross. Neither of which, I may add, should be necessary to keep a husband from straying. If Ross can't be convinced to keep his manhood in his pants by the sheer amazing things his wife has been doing on their family's behalf all along, then a fancy frock and witty repartee isn't going to do it.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

If the Poldarks lived in London and had very active social lives, I could see recommending to Demelza that she "showcase" herself more in order to draw back Ross's attention. Live as though you don't need his attention in the first place. Be vibrant and happy. Maybe even make him jealous. Sure, that might work -- although it also could backfire, leading Ross to conclude that Demelza is fine on her own, so he can pursue Elizabeth. In any event, the opportunities for executing this sort of strategy at Nampara were few and far between. Demelza has to care for Jeremy and run the household. Ross gets up each morning and goes to the mine, goes into Truro, or goes to Trenwith. There just isn't much room for Demelza to use the force of her personality to keep Ross's mind off of his old flame (not to mention that people with obsessions tend to be obsessed, and thus not vulnerable to normal attention-seeking tactics).

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Look, I have been married for more than twenty years and I know how to make sure I keep my husband's attention. Demelza had the advantage over Elizabeth, she lived with Ross, she had daily access to him and if his eye was wandering, she could have brought it back to where it belonged. Instead what she did was to hide her pregnancy and her fears, she became a passive partner in their marriage. She stood by wringing her hands and did nothing.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Well maybe it's just a generational thing because none of my female friends feel that it is our responsibility to keep our men from straying. It reminds me of the quizzes I've seen in my mother's old Cosmopolitan magazines - "10 Surefire Ways To Keep Your Boyfriend/Husband From Cheating!" lol
Sorry, not our job. The actions of other adults is not our responsibility. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

I'm with you, gveronica. I can't buy into that "keep your man's attention" claptrap.

Re: Ross and Elizabeth...ugh! (Possible spoiler)

Me neither - I clearly remember my first husband's grandmother (old tartar that she was) decreeing that if a marriage failed, it was the wife's fault. This was before my first marriage failed (we were married for 2 years ... I'd say that was about 4 years too long ...) but I'm sure I can recall my ears burning often after we separated 😉.
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