The Expanse : Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

It pisses me off actually. You have the budget to make a sci-fi opera/epic and you rely on a very banal "crime mystery"? What in the hell, you could have done that without the sci-fi at all.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

What do you consider a good sci-fi script?

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

A good sci-fi script makes you dream. It takes the freedom of the fantasy/sci-fi genre gives to a writer to do extraordinary things and gives you those extraordinary things that would be otherwise not easily possible, but still remotely possible. This particular script is so banal, it's exactly like taking a 2016(or 2017 now) "crime mystery" tv show, giving it a superficial futuristic exterior and calling it a day.

The human characters are identical to today. The human schemes are identical to today. While one could theoretically claim "I like parallels to reality", this is an extremely overused theme and very limited and ultimately uninteresting to a lot of us.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?


A good sci-fi script makes you dream. It takes the freedom of the fantasy/sci-fi genre gives to a writer to do extraordinary things and gives you those extraordinary things that would be otherwise not easily possible, but still remotely possible. This particular script is so banal, it's exactly like taking a 2016(or 2017 now) "crime mystery" tv show, giving it a superficial futuristic exterior and calling it a day

That depends entirely on what kind of sci-fi drama it is. A "Star Trek" setting for example, yes they could toy around with pretty much everything, because there are few if any limitations to what they could theoretically do.

A show like "The Expanse" is a show set only a few hundred years into the future. The main problems they have is the same we would have, IE oxygen, water, etc. It is not a futuristic setting with phasors, warp drives, internal nullifiers and what have you, it is grounded in what they envision we could realistically have a few hundred years from now.

As for the "Crime Mystery", that is the plot device what ties absolutely everything together, from the destruction of the Canterbury, to Pierre Mao's involvement, the Governments of Earth and Mars, destruction of the Donnager, etc. Everything ties to Julie Mao, and is the reason Miller and Holden's group of survivors meet.

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Let me show you the deep raw passion of unbridled sexual frenzy. But Lucy... im British

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

Yeah, but the predominant trend in sci-fi in the 00s was "the universe is dark, vast and full of ancient life so bizarrely different from us it's not inconceivable that they'll consume us all as a way of saying 'hi!'" The works of that era tended to be relatively hard sci-fi (at least until eldritch alien technology started emerging), gritty in tone, horror-oriented in execution, with few lofty dreams and positive messages about humanity and space exploration. It was more about coming to terms with the scale of the universe and our relative insignificance in it. Just to name some examples: Revelation Space, Leviathan Wakes, Eclipse Phase, the Mass Effect and Dead Space games.

It's kinda petering out nowadays, but it was a very popular subgenre for a while, and the Expanse novels began in that context. It's pointless to argue "what sci-fi should be", it's a literary category, not a public service. If you want it to uplift your spirits and show you a nice candyland future, there's plenty of other works to read/watch/play.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?


You have the budget to make a sci-fi opera/epic and you rely on a very banal "crime mystery"?

I dont think you have been paying attention to the show. Yes, we get the story through the eyes of this "ragtag" group of people (the Rocinante crew), but you should have noticed that there is this "third party" trying to spark a war between Earth and Mars (with the Belt in the middle), there are large scale experiments being done on entire stations, there is a mystery goo that seems sentient, etc.

Star Wars was presented through the eyes of a "down on his luck" smuggler, a farm boy, and an old recluse. Does that make Star Wars banal ? :)

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Let me show you the deep raw passion of unbridled sexual frenzy. But Lucy... im British

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

The main problem is that the human perspective is so banal. It's like taking 2016 (or 2017 now) earth and directly putting it into a futuristic exterior and leaving it only at that. When you make a fantasy/sci-fi movie you have the freedom to do extraordinary things with the human perspective.

This is exactly like taking any common old crime mystery. e.g. it could be instead of Earth and Mars, "America, Russia, Middle East" and only giving it a superficial futuristic facade. While one could claim "I like the parallel to this year", it's an extremely overused parallel.

So when I see such an extensive production in sci-fi and they keep it extremely limited to a current-year scenario with just the exterior being futuristic it's bad. They had the chance to do something special. They had the chance to make us dream.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

Welcome to storytelling. It's pretty much same story told over and over again in different ways. Just like Avatar is Pocahontas in space, Star Wars is Lord of the Rings in space. Trolls are Aliens and spaceships are ships and people in space are people on earth.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

I'm with you, I understand your problem. I've only seen one episode so far, but it does seem banal. I was disappointed it's not about exploring the deep space etc. or something similar. Only the setting is sci-fi, nothing else.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

The series show's humans as fundamentally the same psychologically. Star Trek was unrealistic in ignoring human tribalism and the function of oxytocin.

200 years hence there should be advances in mental health medicine and changes possible.

There is a fundamental part of the plot that is only possible in the future that is only being glimpsed. I assume you haven't finished watching it if you claim this show is simple banal. It is not. There are unique forces only future humans will have to deal with, at play.

Criticism of religion is not racism...

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

You seem to have mistaken "banal" for "dystopian". And "mediocre" for "densely plotted".

"I like to watch." Chauncey Gardiner, 'Being There'

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

Seriously, what the *beep* is he talking about?

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

There is a lot more going on than a crime mystery, that's for sure. It sounds like you want a new Star Trek series. My understanding is that there is one of those on the way as well. This sort of story telling doesn't really sound like your thing.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

Just to reassure you, the story will grow FAR beyond a crime drama in Season 2 (it already has, by the end of Season 1 and with everything going on in the background), and the beginning of Season 2 (or maybe the first half of it?) will adapt the rest of Book 1 (a couple VERY sci-fi things happen and are shown in that part of the book, especially at the climax).

They wanted to start things off GROUNDED and relatable -- it's only 200 or so years in the future (never stated, but that's the general idea). Yes, that made for a slower-paced first season, but if the novels are anything to go by ? Stick around for action and weirdness very soon.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

I mostly agree with you.

I wouldnt call the script mediocre, it definitely has some strong suits. The dialogues work, and ignoring the logical errors the plot is suspenseful and surprising enough.

And as a sci-fi its really weak. Its obvious this isnt how mankind will progress. The setting makes no sense. Its really just the current political situation moved into the future. And the problems make no sense either. For example why does nobody recycle water, even the ISS already recycles water.

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A gentleman will not insult me, and no man not a gentleman can insult me.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?


And as a sci-fi its really weak. Its obvious this isnt how mankind will progress. The setting makes no sense. Its really just the current political situation moved into the future. And the problems make no sense either. For example why does nobody recycle water, even the ISS already recycles water

I guess we can all sleep soundly then, since you know the future :)

I do not find it weak, and in all honesty you do not have a clue how we will progress (nor do i). I am sure that they do have recycling plants, but as you should know, purification wont get you 100 percent back. So in a station environment with thousands of people, they would be dependent on regular resupply even if all systems were working at peak efficiency.

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Let me show you the deep raw passion of unbridled sexual frenzy. But Lucy... im British

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?


I guess we can all sleep soundly then, since you know the future :)
Obviously I dont know the future, but I know it when ideas about how the future might be clearly wont work out this way.

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A gentleman will not insult me, and no man not a gentleman can insult me.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

We could be in a war within a year for all anyone knows. We could all be nuked before the year is out. None of it really matters, when this show is fiction. To them it could be a parallel world.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

It's probably the most realistic depiction of the next 200 years in a Sci-fi show.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?


And as a sci-fi its really weak. Its obvious this isnt how mankind will progress. The setting makes no sense. Its really just the current political situation moved into the future.

The present is just the past political situation moved to its future. Everything old is new again.
Maybe Adrian Veidt's dream from Watchmen of a common alien enemy uniting the people and breaking the cycle could happen, but that hasn't quite happened yet in the show.

For example why does nobody recycle water, even the ISS already recycles water.
What makes you think they don't?

<*>

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

I'd love to see your Sci-Fi script. I bet it would use the word 'banal' at least once a scene, judging by your comments.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

A story where humanity as a whole is at stake and you think it's a crime mystery?
It's like you've only seen a few episodes.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

How much have you seen? Because it does extend beyond the initial "crime mystery". There's a helluva lot more going on.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

This is a space travel science fiction TV series highly regarded by most professional critics with good viewer ratings.
I should like "The Expanse" a lot.
Yet, after 3 episodes there isn't much there for me to latch on to in terms of main characters / main story.
And I'm usually pretty good at figuring that out.

SPOILERS
- The people on a Ceres station are upset because of water / air rationing. The people blame Mars or maybe earth.
- There is a missing woman who may be a terrorist who knew people on the Ceres station. A detective investigates.
- There is a freighter hauling ice. It was attacked (maybe by a Mars ship). There are survivors in a shuttle.
But a Mars navy ship crew tells the shuttle crew that a Mars ship did not attack the freighter.
- A woman leader of the UN on earth seems to be manipulating politicians on earth about Mars.
Does she want war? Maybe.
- And there are terrorists who haven't told their story yet.

I'll probably stick it out.
It's OK (passable) so far.

Imo at least, BB ;-)

it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

Episode 4 adds some info but the main story / character motivations remain vague;

SPOILERS
- The people on the Ceres station are not only upset because of water / air rationing. But some people there get stoned and bet on dangerous flying.
- The missing woman who may be a terrorist who knew people on the Ceres station; The detective keeps investigating and finds someone with an implant. Another detective is stabbed but is alive.
- The freighter hauling ice was not attacked by a Mars ship. The freighter survivors leave in a shuttle from the Mars ship.
The Mars navy ship was attacked by unknown ships and the Mars ship self destructs.
- The woman leader of the UN on earth watches the stars on the roof of her house. She keeps track of some events.
- An OPA terrorist leader on Tycho station (who is a work supervisor) says the OPA wants more jobs.
- The Mormons are spreading to other planets.

This remains OK (passable) so far.

Imo at least, BB ;-)


it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

Episode 5 was in some ways a struggle; it adds vague info to a main story / characters which was already vague.
There are as many questions as answers from this episode and this time I needed to watch bits again to keep track.

SPOILERS
- The Ceres station has an OPA operative named Anderson Dawes. Dawes talks to the detective, Joe, about getting the man who stabbed Joe's partner, Dmitri. Dawes has the man who committed the assault locked up.
- Dawes wants Ceres to be independent (due to low gravity and poor air).
- Joe, talks to someone about the missing woman, Julie, who may be a terrorist. Her dad is rich. Julie was helping others before she disappeared. The detective keeps investigating figuring that the man with the implant was selling information and Julie wanted to see this "data broker".
- Joe has a theory that Julie is connected to the freighter hauling ice (the Canterbury) that was destroyed as well as the Mars ship, (Donnager), which was also destroyed.
But that theory is not explored.
Joe is kidnapped at the end of the episode.
- The freighter (Canterbury) survivors traveling in a shuttle from the Mars ship (Donnager) need a place to go. They agree to the offer from the OPA terrorist leader, Fred Johnson, to go to Tycho station. Johnson gives instructions to change the shuttles transponder code.
- A transmission from one of the shuttle survivors (that a Mars ship destroyed the Canterbury) has gotten out and caused riots on Ceres.
- Flashback 11 years ago to Anderson station which had civilians protesting poor treatment of children. It was destroyed by a UN officer who turns out to be Fred Johnson, also known as the Butcher of Anderson station.
- The woman leader of the UN on earth? Nothing about her.
- The Mormons? Also nothing.

** The series is becoming more annoying as it drags along.
I thought "Dark Matter" had become too simple in the middle of season 2.
But now I'm thinking, I'd like to switch back to DM for a while just to watch a straight science fiction story for a change.

Imo at least, BB ;-)

it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

I just finished Season 1 and will watch Season 2 soon. There are ideas being used that I really like about this show but overall I think I know what you mean. It is quite underwhelming. For me I think a lot of it has to do with earning my investment to things happening and the characters of the show. It seems like there has been some thought put into how the overall society is established. A little bit of lore. We just kind of just get thrown in and that could work in some cases but maybe it doesn't here. It seems brushed aside easily. Maybe it would just raise too many unanswerable questions but IMO if that is such a big risk it should have never gone there in the first place. I found it hard to care much about a lot of things happening. Maybe there wasn't obvious enough motivations for some characters or time for it to develop for me to care about a lot of these characters...at least not as much as I assume they wanted me to. I'm sure the number of characters don't help either. I don't even know why Havelock is in the show at all. Seems like Season 1 could have worked without him at all (unless I missed something). I was interested in what was gonna happen with him since he seemed very committed in learning how to sort of be a Belter but they just pretty much dropped him after he got hurt.

The idea of animosity between regions of the system is good. The separation with time having created different cultures and even languages is good. Having some sort of struggle everyone recognizes (resources) is good. Throwing in some sort of weird alien or bioweapon conspiracy into the mix kind of complicates things more than it needs to. Maybe the show is doing too much too fast? I think just some corporate espionage or whatever warring rivalry could have worked fine alone. I'm actually very interested to see Mars and what's happening over there. I liked Lopez but he didn't stick around very long. This weird blue bioweapon thing isn't interesting to me at all especially when it is almost like magic.

It's also one of my only complaints about Game of Thrones (possible spoilers coming). Whenever things get too supernatural it kind of turns me off. It's just kind of jarring compared to the rest of what happens. The most interesting things about GoT are the characters, their struggles, the politics, and their clashes. I'll even give the dragons a pass since at least they are animals. The white-walkers don't actually interest me that much. They're basically a "cool looking" plot device to motivate Westeros to unite.

Re: Hell do they spend all that budget, on sci-fi, on a mediocre script?

Maybe it is but I for one hadn't seen a crime mystery done in space before this show so I thought it was pretty interesting.
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