Star Wars: The Force Awakens : Can Ren be redeemed?

Can Ren be redeemed?

Vader's redemption in ROTJ works largely because, for all the insistence of his evil, he doesn't do anything terribly awful. He kills a soldier at the start of ANH, but, the former isn't really a character that the audience identify with, and the scene is pretty much more about establishing how powerful and ruthless Vader is, so we enjoy his villainy. Similarly, the pilots shot down over the Death Star don't really register - it's more about enhancing the desperation of the Rebels, their small band of brothers diminishing moment by moment.

Vader's killing of Kenobi is a shocking moment, but the scene is more about Kenobi's puzzling disappearance, and, of course, his ghostly voice lets us know that even if he's dead, he's not gone - indeed, he has become more powerful than Vader can possibly imagine!

In ESB, Vader seems to spend as much time killing his own Imperial officers than crushing his foes. His capture of Han is a great scene, as is his freezing of him, but it's not really evil; Han's been taken captive, but not killed. Similarly, the odd effect of Vader's revelation is that in shattering Luke's presumptions, it provokes the audience's interest. New layers have been added to Vader, which, coupled on top of the pathos of seeing his bald-scarred head, make him oddly sympathetic.

What evil does Vader do in ROTJ? He threatens the Imperial commander to ensure that the Death Star will be ready, but it's a threat, not a Force choke, and the menace is more about the Emperor, who Vader will ultimately kill.

Kylo Ren has killed his own father, who is also a much-loved character. Some posters have suggested that the new SW films might show Rey turning to the dark side, and Ren returning to the light - but after what he's done, is there any way that he can be redeemed?

To IMDB, or not to IMDB - because I've got some questions.

Re: Can Ren be redeemed?

I don't think that he can be redeemed because he may not want to be redeemed.
Just because he uses the Force doesn't mean that he is not responsible for his actions.

Is General Hux redeemable? How about Captain Phasma or the other stormtroopers or officers?

Re: Can Ren be redeemed?

ANYONE can be redeemed. I think peopel only want Ren redeemed due o the Vader connection. They don'tink of Hux ofr Captain Useless.


Re: Can Ren be redeemed?

I don't want Darth Emo to be redeemed, I want him to *beep* suffer!

Ideally at the hands of Princess Leia, I want to see that spoiled jerk crouching at her feet, whining and cringing in terror of his own mother. Really, the ONLY way I will accept his redemption is if his own mother totally humiliates him first, and in public.




“Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it!

Re: Can Ren be redeemed?

Heh, all you need to do for that to happn is for her to grund him and take his toys away...


Re: Can Ren be redeemed?

Patricide makes me doubtful.

Re: Can Ren be redeemed?

Ben killing his father is no worse than Anakin slaughtering a temple full of innocent jedi children. And he got redeemed 5 minutes before he died >_>;

Re: Can Ren be redeemed?

Margifish wrote:

Ben killing his father is no worse than Anakin slaughtering a temple full of innocent jedi children. And he got redeemed 5 minutes before he died.

We don't see Anakin (or Vader, as he's been re-christened) do the killing, though. We see him being asked by a youngling (gah - how I hate typing that!) what they can do, Anakin silently igniting his lightsaber in reply, to ominous music, and, some scenes later, the aftermath of the slaughter.

We only really see Anakin/Vader wreaking death and destruction when he annihilates the Trade Federation, but as they're both villains and fools, it doesn't really arouse revulsion from the audience.

You could make a case for Anakin/Vader's choke-hold on Padme for being a Rubicon moment, but he doesn't directly kill her; she's wounded, but, apparently, loses the will to live rather than actually being murdered. The newly suited Vader's anguished "Noooooo!" in response to the Emperor's lie that he killed his wife, while unfortunately somewhat comic, also gets him at least a little bit of sympathy.

To IMDB, or not to IMDB - because I've got some questions.

Re: Can Ren be redeemed?

I thought it was also suggested that Kylo killed the students at Luke's Jedi place.
Because if thats so, then both Vader and Kylo killed innocent kids, Vader earns evil points through his long duo-reign with Palpatine, torturing and killing people along the way, but Kylo gets an instant evil boost as well for killing Han.

What maybe saved Vader was that he actually only turned to the Dark side to prevent Padme from dying, since only the Dark side has the ability to heal.
So, deep down Anakin wasnt really evil, he just made some bad choices, and Palpatine kept him in that cycle.
What might save Kylo is his doubt, because hes not actually truly evil yet, he wants to commit, but he cant shake off his conscience yet.
But he probably needs to die as well though, while killing Snoke or something, in order to get any chance at redemption.

I did suggest in another thread that i would like to see Rey and Kylo switch places, but id rather just accept Rey as the new Skywalker Jedi and move on with the story.


I skip reading the bottom line, because it is usually some lame signature.

Re: Can Ren be redeemed?

I don't think he will be redeemed I think Han was telling Kylo the truth and Snoke will dispose of him when his use has run out. I don't think he will die but escape and try to help the rebels but be rejected, so after his battle with pulls to the light and dark he finds a way to live without the force/at peace with the force.

IF he is redeemed and I don't think it should happen but I wouldn't mind, my theory would be that Luke and Rey would make him realise how Snoke has been manipulating him his whole life and he will turn against Snoke not fully on the light side though. If it happens like this then I think Ren will have to die because the fact will always remain he looked into Hans eyes for 5 minutes before deciding to stab his father. Maybe even dying as early as late in Ep. 8 or early in Ep. 9.

Re: Can Ren be redeemed?

Depends on what people mean by "redemption".

Can Kylo come back to the good side, be accepted and resume his old life in the society? I'd say not, that ship has sailed. Even if he lives beyond this trilogy he'll have to pay some huge price.

I think that the choice to have Kylo kill Han was at least partly to make the audience doubt that he can ever be redeemed now. If that didn't happen everyone would be like, "duh he's clearly going to be a good guy again". The trick now is to make the audience buy the redemption, but while it may not win over everyone good writing and acting can do a lot.

Re: Can Ren be redeemed?

I suppose that if Leia totally forgave him, she could gain him societal acceptance of a sort. But it'd never be complete, and he'd never be trusted.

No, Vader and Severus Snape had it right, the only way to completely redeem yourself is to die in a good cause. Then you're completely forgiven, all mistrust and resentment is laid aside, and you don't have to deal with anyone who still holds a grudge. You're a goddamn hero, as long as you stay dead.



“Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it!

Re: Can Ren be redeemed?

Redemption was the OT. Fall from grace was the PT. I think unconditional forgiveness may just be what the ST explores.

We will see.

"But I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now"
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