Star Wars: The Force Awakens : OT: What makes 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' NOT a rehash?

OT: What makes 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' NOT a rehash?

Especially in comparison to this?

Honestly, if anything, I think that film is more of a rehash of 'The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring' than this film is for 'A New Hope'. I mean, if you think about it, while 'The Force Awakens' DOES have quite a lot of familiar story elements from 'A New Hope', but its story structure is not necessarily all that similar.

'An Unexpected Journey' though? The whole film's story structure resembles that of 'The Fellowship of the Ring' a lot. How?:
-Smaug attack in the opening of 'An Unexpected Journey' coincides with Isildur vs. Sauron in 'The Fellowship of the Ring'.
-'An Unexpected Party' scene in 'An Unexpected Journey' coincides with Bilbo Baggins' birthday party and the discovery of One Ring in 'The Fellowship of the Ring'.
-Beginning of Bilbo's journey in 'An Unexpected Journey' coincides with Frodo and his friends going to Rivendell in 'The Fellowship of the Ring'.
-Troll scene in 'An Unexpected Journey' pretty much coincides with Bree scene in 'The Fellowship of the Ring', although they work quite differently.
-Orc pack chase in 'An Unexpected Journey' coincides with Nazgul chase in 'The Fellowship of the Ring'.
-Rivendell stay is pretty much self-explanatory.
-Stone Giant fight scene in 'An Unexpected Journey' coincides with Saruman's snow attack scene in 'The Fellowship of the Ring'.
-Goblin Town sequence in 'An Unexpected Journey' coincides with Moria sequence in 'The Fellowship of the Ring'.
-Azog attack scene in 'An Unexpected Journey' coincides with the kidnapping of Pippin and Merry in 'The Fellowship of the Ring'.

Yes, events are different, but the way story unfolds in both films match very closely. I wonder why nobody ever called 'An Unexpected Journey' a rehash back then.

And yes, although I didn't have an acount back then, I was on that board back in December 2012 and no one on that board called it a rehash.

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Re: OT: What makes 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' NOT a rehash?

Jeez, another misbegotten attempt at finger pointing in an vain effort to mitigate the infamy. Did you ever hear that these Middle Earth films were based on a book series. Yes? Did you ever hear that The Hobbit actually came first? Yea? Did you ever hear the criticism, that the pulp fantasy LotR in large parts repeats the plot points of the children book The Hobbit? Noooo! It's old news!

So, yes they follow similar plot beats, themes and story lines. But it does not come close to (or makes any better) the rehashing done in TFA: TFA copies 90% of ANH's plot beats, the rest is OT (father/son conflict, emperor etc) or former EU beats. TFA starts with the Jedi order being destroyed (again) by a masked former Skywalker Jedi traitor going dark side, opens with an stormtrooper attack to obtain a map hidden in a droid etc - we know the story since 77-83.
http://funnyjunk.com/Rewrite/funny-pictures/5776757/

Additionally, and equally important, the designs (repainted spaceships etc), world building and character are rehashed. Just a few examples on the knock-offs:

- The Resistance was the Rebel Alliance 2.0
- The First Order was the Empire 2.0
- Rey was Luke 2.0 (and a bit of Han, Leia, R2 and C-3PO for good measure)
- BB-8 was R2-D2 2.0
- Poe Dameron was Han Solo/Wedge Antilles 2.0
- Kylo Ren was Darth Vader 2.0
- Supreme Leader Snoke was Darth Sidious 2.0
- General Hux was Grand Moff Tarkin 2.0
- Captain Phasma was Boba Fett 2.0
- Maz Kanata was Yoda 2.0
- The Hosnian System was Alderaan 2.0
- Jakku was Tatooine 2.0
- Star Killer was Death Star 3.0 (or 3.5 if you count Ep 1)
and Luke was/will be Obi-wan 2.0

There is a reason fewer ppl call LotR a rehash than TFA. There are so many analysis out there btw:
- Plot beats/Legal analysis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngg2uBK2j8s
- Visuals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BX18Icf6fQ

Any questions? 😉
de gustibus non est disputandum

Re: OT: What makes 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' NOT a rehash?

Yes, I'm aware of the book series, but even then, the structural similarity between those films are incredibly obvious, especially after 'The Hobbit' series turned into a trilogy.

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Re: OT: What makes 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' NOT a rehash?

Your first Youtube clip relies on a completely false premise. The 'song plagiarism' thing is not a relevant comparison. It would only be so if TFA was the beginning of an entirely new franchise, which of course it isn't. If anything, a more realistic analogy would be a band doing a reunion album and using the template of a previous album to recreate a particular feeling ie a reformed lineup of The Eagles doing an album of tunes that are derivative of 'Hotel California'. This would hardly be a crime - especially if the band freely stated that they were indeed trying to recapture the vibe of 'Hotel California'.

This is what TFA is. Abrams has explained time and time again why the film was built on the familiar bedrock of ANH. Whether or not this makes for good 'art' is in the eye of the viewer, but it's not like he's been caught out in some big conspiracy. Poor old Star Wars has been put through the wringer since Lucas discovered CGI dinosaurs and Midichlorians, and TFA was designed to bring it all back to its roots - back to that old feeling (while still going forward). Again it's down to the particular audience member whether or not this was a good move.

Your second Youtube clip is ironic because whoever posted it wrote the following -

"Again, the question is whether or not you’re okay with The Force Awakens borrowing so much from A New Hope. Personally, I think this is exactly what needed to be done in order to get certain fans on board with the next chapter of the Star Wars saga. It gives fans something that is familiar enough for them to have nostalgia for while also giving them enough new to take off in different direction with Rian Johnson in Star Wars: Episode VIII.

For me, it’s Rey, Finn, Poe and Kylo Ren that have me itching to see where we’re headed next. But these characters needed to play with a little of the old and familiar in order for a lot of the fans to really get on board. As a huge Star Wars fan, I have every confidence that Rian Johnson will start to veer away from the familiar and explore uncharted territory in the Star Wars universe. But The Force Awakens is a good place to start as we embark on some new adventures."

I happen to agree, but of course these things are subjective.

Re: OT: What makes 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' NOT a rehash?

Let me put it this way:

TFA is a fun film starring some very charming young actors, the worst thing about it is the story's painful lack of originality.

TH:AUJ is a dreadful film in every way, and the similarity to its predecessors is so far down the list of its faults that it's not really debated in the fandom.


We're all to busy denigrating the bad direction and sloppy editing, the terrible production values and miscalculated performances, the extraneous story lines and the terrible decision to add in enough extraneous material to stretch a simple story into three tedious films.




“Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it!

Re: OT: What makes 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' NOT a rehash?

easy Busty: its the source material. Jackson just filmed Tolkien's old books (those repeat a lot of stuff really) plus he ADDED stuff that was not in the books, like the hot elf chick or some subplots. So Jackson creatively expanded the source material, hard to call his films a rehash, huh...?

Force Awakens was a blatant lie from it's inception. They advertised a sequel, but we got a lame soft reboot that ages at a more accelerated rate than these Republican clones from Kamino, if you know what i mean. That's what pisses people off. And you know the other problem zones.

🐾Dictated but not read 🐾

Re: OT: What makes 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' NOT a rehash?

Adaptation or not, the structural similarity between the first two films are incredibly obvious.

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Merry Christmas!

Re: OT: What makes 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' NOT a rehash?

People refer to The Force Awakens as a "rehash", but it is something vastly more severe. It's almost work of plagiarism. Nearly every element is a knock-off carbon copy of an element from primarily A New Hope and secondarily The Empire Strikes Back. The First Order is a copycat of the Empire. Snoke is a copycat of the Emperor. Kylo Ren is a copycat of Darth Vader. They command stormtroopers in white-colored armor. They use stardestroyers. They use TIE fighters. The Resistance is a copycat of the Rebel Alliance. They command bash pilots in orange-colored jumpsuits. They use X-wing fighters. Jakku, Rey's home, is made look just like Tatooine, Luke's home. Hosnian Prime, the new capitol, is made to look just like Coruscant, the old capitol. Starkiller Base is a bigger, badder version of the Death Star. It's like every other new object is just an old object with a new name and a slightly different appearance. It's like some kind of a remake or parody for that matter, with plot twists every now and then. How asinine!

Re: OT: What makes 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' NOT a rehash?

You forgot one: Rey being a Mary Sue is a rehash of Luke being a Gary Stu. At least, that's what the logic of your argument would tell us.


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Re: OT: What makes 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' NOT a rehash?


What makes 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' NOT a rehash?

wasn't the Hobbit written first? that would make Fellowship the rehash.
Pointing out that some other movie is a rehash doesn't make TFA any better or worse.

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Re: OT: What makes 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' NOT a rehash?


Honestly, if anything, I think that film is more of a rehash of 'The Lord of the Rings:
Not really.

-Smaug attack in the opening of 'An Unexpected Journey' coincides with Isildur vs. Sauron in 'The Fellowship of the Ring'.
Both trilogies have an opening prologue explaining the backstory of the overall trilogy, but their different in tone, characters, and conflicts.

-'An Unexpected Party' scene in 'An Unexpected Journey' coincides with Bilbo Baggins' birthday party and the discovery of One Ring in 'The Fellowship of the Ring'.
Yes, but they're different types of scenes. Bilbo leaving the Shire is the discovery of the ring and the beginning of questions. For Hobbit, it's a journey already taking place with Gandalf attempting to convince Bilbo to come along the mission.

-Beginning of Bilbo's journey in 'An Unexpected Journey' coincides with Frodo and his friends going to Rivendell in 'The Fellowship of the Ring'.
Frodo and friends leave for Rivendell to get answers and to pass the ring onto the elves. Bilbo leaves with the company that delves into personal matters concerning Thorin's anger with the elves and his personal pride in not taking their help.

-Troll scene in 'An Unexpected Journey' pretty much coincides with Bree scene in 'The Fellowship of the Ring', although they work quite differently.
Except they're not at all alike. The Bree scenes are meant to establish Aragorn's introduction, the late arrival of Gandalf, and the Nazgul. The troll scene is done to showcase how useful Bilbo can be to the group after initial doubts.

-Rivendell stay is pretty much self-explanatory.
Except FAR different. It's a personal vendetta that Thorin has with Elrond with the Elvish people living in peace. In FOTR, Elrond and the elves are leaving while worrying together over the problem concerning the ring.

-Stone Giant fight scene in 'An Unexpected Journey' coincides with Saruman's snow attack scene in 'The Fellowship of the Ring'.
With the snow attack showcasing that there's only one way left to go, while the stone giant fight highlights that Thorin thinks Bilbo is still lost and without an actual purpose in the group.

-Goblin Town sequence in 'An Unexpected Journey' coincides with Moria sequence in 'The Fellowship of the Ring'.
Except it's once again on a far more intimate level where the group actually comes together in AUJ with Moria being the start of the breaking of the Fellowship.

-Azog attack scene in 'An Unexpected Journey' coincides with the kidnapping of Pippin and Merry in 'The Fellowship of the Ring'.
Except the endings are quite different. Thorin realizes Bilbo's worth, and in Fellowship, Aragorn realizes that Frodo's journey is his own and Frodo realizing that he still needs the support of Sam as a confidant.

And yes, although I didn't have an acount back then, I was on that board back in December 2012 and no one on that board called it a rehash.
It's not considered a rehash because the basic plot structure, and specifics concerning iconography, characters, and dynamics aren't wholesale lifted and used for a sequel that's a FAR less interesting retelling of a story already told.


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