IF the prequels never existed, I would agree with you. But unfortunately they do
She's just more impressive than Luke in every way. It's like they took Luke, removed all of his inabilities, removed his character flaws, removed all the times he needed to be rescued, and flipped his gender.
Rey felt like the writers were handling her with kid gloves and she was never allowed to look bad or fail at anything, or be reduced to helplessness and require saving like all the other characters.
She has every possible skill (where the skills would be divided up amongst the characters in the OT so that everyone could contribute and get moments to shine) and she succeeds at everything she does.
Just about every scene with Rey and another character in it is about Rey doing something impressive and the other characters reacting to how impressive Rey is at whatever she's doing.
The mind trick out of nowhere is an extremely impressive use of the force for someone who's never used it before or trained or practiced with it (and after 30 seconds she has completely mastered this force ability and can do it by shouting over her shoulder, across the room, and without a hand wave). Luke practiced under a coach and blocked some shots during his training before eventually aiming one shot in his ship under more coaching.
Kylo was written to be internally weak to justify having him lose to Rey multiple times but that doesn't prevent her from humiliating him and removing all of his dignity and threat factor going into the next one. Watching the main villain get hit over and over and get beaten into the ground by the main hero without being able to defend himself, hit her back once or give her a little scratch makes him seem lame. At the end of the movie, Rey is seemingly much more powerful than the main villain who's no longer any threat to her while Luke had to be rescued from his main villain at the end of his first movie since he was not strong enough to beat him on his own.
Poe didn't resist the mind probe at all. He gave in and revealed the info.
Can you imagine Luke dominating and humiliating Vader in their first movie together and Vader still seeming like a threatening villain?
Luke had many moments where he was helpless and needed his friends to rescue him. Rey would never be allowed into a similar position.
Remember when Luke was trapped in the trash compactor and had to scream for help until his droid friends rescued him? Rey would have just hotwired the door and saved herself and everyone else.
Remember when he was attacked by the Sand people and then the thugs at the bar and needed Obi Wan to come in and rescue him? Rey would have just beaten them all up by herself.
Remember when Luke needed Han to come rescue him from Vader? Rey would have just turned her ship around and taken out Vader herself without getting shot once.
Rey was written to be generally more powerful and thoroughly more impressive than Luke. If there is no mystery to her origin and she's just some random girl who happens to be this universally amazing and unstoppable, then yes, she makes Luke look bad by comparison by being so much better than him and by being immune to failure or needing rescue.
If there is no mystery to her origin and she's just some random girl who happens to be this universally amazing and unstoppable, then yes, she makes Luke look bad by comparison by being so much better than him and by being immune to failure or needing rescue.
Here's the biggest issue imo. They didn't take Luke and do anything with him at all. This is a completely different character who came across completely different challenges.
What was Luke bad at? What did he fail at?
Rey would have been blown to smithereens if not for Finn getting her to run from the air strike. Rey saved by Finn.
Rey would not have been able to fend off the TIE Fighters without a gunner. Team effort.
She freaks out when she sees the visions and refuses to accept the calling instead wanting to bury her head in the sand and hope her family will return. Character flaw.
Rey makes a mistake of trying to fire a gun with the safety on. A cliché for a dumb moment.
Shortly after that she is taken prisoner. And also wouldn't have been on her own had she not wimped out and ran away from the visions.Failed to escape the enemy attack.
She is briefly made unconscious by Kylo and would have been taken to Snoke has Finn not stepped up to battle Kylo. Rey saved by Finn.
Starkiller base crumbles and Rey along with Finn would be doomed if not for the rescue by Chewie. Rey & Finn saved by Chewie.
In Star Wars, Luke pretty much had every skill that Han brought to the table. He was an excellent shot when up against storm troopers, even shot the door panel on one attempt from who knows how far away after Ben's death. And he was a great pilot (just didn't have a ship). He took out TIE fighters as a gunner on The Falcon as well along with Han. The only person who had any skills Luke didn't was Obi Wan, a Jedi.
What skill did Han bring that Luke didn't have?
Rey didn't man a gun on a ship throughout the entire film. She needed Finn to man the gun while she flew the ship. Finn saves her twice, Chewie saves her once and its Han who takes the both of them to the resistance and the lightsaber. It's Han who's able to infiltrate Starkiller Base with Finn. Rey doesn't do everything on her own. She'd have been dead near the beginning of the film if not for Finn.
I remember Finn being impressed seeing a small girl beat up two thugs with a staff. Who wouldn't be?
I remember Han being impressed she knew how to tackle the upgrades to the ship he was unaware of.
What were the others?
I don't believe the handwave has anything to do with how the trick is done as its used more in parodies than the actual film. I think its for the audience to know what they're doing. In fact the only hand wave I remember is Qui Gon when he attempted a second time with Watto.
It's impressive to perform the mind trick after attempting it twice and failing, I agree. It's also impressive to deflect blast shots without the use of your eyes on your third attempt too. Who's to say which is a more difficult use of the force?
And his coach didn't actually give him any instruction other than 'stretch out with your feelings'... essentially the same talk Rey had previously had from Maz.
These are all very different characters. The movie makes a huge point of saying that even a fighting fit Kylo is NO Darth Vader. He's a mess. He's not supposed to be an overpowering intimidating monster like Vader. This character has an internal struggle. That ontop of the fact that he was shot with what was essentially a shot gun in his belly and was bleeding out of it all over the ground didn't completely stop him from dominating most of the fight (he even took a hit in his fighting arm from Finn). He was instructed to bring Rey in, not harm her. He underestimated her, naturally after having her on the back foot for the entire fight. Once she focused on the Force and started to use it, he wasn't ready for that (nor physically given his injuries), which led to his downfall.
No, he doesn't seem intimidating leading into the next film. That doesn't matter. It doesn't mean that now the stakes are personal, once he's healed his wounds and once he's completed his training and now that his Father is no longer part of his drawing to the light, that he can't return an absolute beast.
I don't think for a second that Kylo was written weak just to make Rey look good. I believe he was written this way as to add some layers to a seemingly otherwise tired concept of a good Jedi gone bad and that's all there is to it.
I am genuinely interested to see where Kylo's story goes as much as Rey's. While Vader will always be my fav movie villain, you don't really get that at the end of Star Wars, or many movies where the villain is an absolute badass. You just want to see them do more badass stuff. Kylo is refreshing imo.
What I meant was he tried to fight back. You can see his resistance before Kylo gets what he wants, indicating that there is a struggle rather than simply taking.
People seem to interprete the mind probe differently.
How I saw it when I watched it, was that Kylo attempts to go into her head. Rey's powerful force sensitivity allows her to resist and she instinctively finds herself in his mind as his doors are wide open during the probe, his defenses are down as he doesn't expect her to resist and fight back. Why would he?
This moment isn't to show her overpowering him imo. Its to surprise both Kylo and the audience with how powerful Rey's potential is.
To be fair, Vader was humiliated. He got beaten by one of his wingmen panicking over Han Solo. Circumstances play a big part in movies. At the end of TFA I would still bet good money that a fighting fit Kylo who was ready to fight a knowingly force sensitive Rey to the death would wreck her.
As listed above, this is certainly not the case. Rey is saved about as many times as Luke is, maybe slightly less but it's not as though there's a quota.
If the door could be hotwired, might Han have done it? He hotwired a door in RoTJ. But then he did get the wrong door (like Rey did when she let the Rathtars out by mistake, so she may not have been so lucky with the hotwiring either).
People at the bar, well yeah, Rey could fight, she might have beaten them up. I don't believe there's a rule that says none of your protagonists can start out as good fighters but they can start out as excellent pilots with perfect shots.
Sand people? Probably not, she'd have been outnumbered.
Yeah, like how Rey needed Finn to rescue her from Ren and even after that, needed Chewie to rescue both of them from an exploding planet.
Remember how Luke was able to evade blaster fire from 'precise' aiming Stormtroopers, throw a grappling hook on a ledge first time and swing across the open space with a Princess in hand? He seems pretty good at stuff too, eh? I could easily say Rey couldn't do that without getting shot. Different situations. Neither of them come across the same scenarios and their skill sets are different.
More powerful? Maybe, we don't know yet and we may never know. More impressive? Yeah, I agree. She may simply be more powerful. She may be a faster learner, she may be less skeptical of The Force than Luke (who was still skeptical until mid Empire) or maybe she just had her back up agsint the wall more so than Luke with only The Force to rely on.
We saw in Star Wars that it doesn't take a lot to perform amazing seemingly impossible things (Luke deflecting shots blindfolded and making shots skilled and trained fighter pilots deem impossible). With your back up against the wall and all by yourself, you tend to make things happen. That's true in life. With an essence like The Force to work with, much can be achieved.
Luke is one force user journey that we saw out of probably millions. Why would they all be the same? Why is Luke the limit? If Luke, a skeptic to The Force's limitations second film in can't do it in the beginning, then nobody else could have either? I don't agree with this at all
She was rescued three times, got herself captured by freaking out and separating from her friends, made a bonehead move of firing with the safety on and let the Rathtars out by mistake. She is not immune to failure or needing help.
How is he not her equal?
Even ignoring that Finn is inferior to Rey in literally every way, he is not her equal because the script did not treat Finn with as much respect as it treated Rey with. Why was Rey never the butt of any gags like he was? Why was she never reduced to helplessness and unable to overcome a problem by herself like he was? Why did she never encounter anything that she couldn't do exceptionally well unlike Finn who frequently didn't have the skills for every situation that came up? Why did she never get to be impressed by Finn doing something she couldn't do?
Why would the audience never be expected to laugh at her lack of dignity, her pain, or her misfortune the way they were encouraged to laugh at Finn's lack of dignity, his pain, or his misfortune? (Beaten by Rey, tasered by BB8, falling down and having the droid fall on top of him, being revealed as a janitor, failing at simple tasks like handing things to people who are doing complex tasks, etc). They might seem like small instances individually but tell me why Rey would never be the one having her dignity taken away and being on the receiving end of the audience's laughter?
Finn pulled her out of gunfire once when he could have just simply said "Run!" and she would have been fine. He was being overprotective of someone who was infinitely more capable than him as she kept telling him before he got knocked out and they switched roles so that she would be pulling him to safety so the audience could see that he needed her help more than she needed his. That's not being helpless and vulnerable like he often was.
They served the same role in the story and had many similarities.
Luke wasn't instantly respected, admired and revered by everyone he met.
Luke couldn't fight in his first movie. That's a huge inability that made him vulnerable and let his friends shine alongside him as his equals.
Luke was often in situations that he could not overcome on his own and he was entirely dependent on other characters to rescue him. Rey was never helpless and always rescued herself.
He would have lost to a superior pilot than himself if he didn't have friends to come in and rescue him. Rey never encountered anyone who could do anything she couldn't do better.
Finn provided a quick moment of assistance to Rey but the scene was about Rey rescuing them both with the falcon.
We already had her rescuing herself from goons while he watched, and then beating him up a minute ago but the movie really wanted the audience to recognize that Rey is much better than Finn so they highlight that again.
Finn provided assistance by working the turret but he needed Rey to line up his shots for him with her amazingness. It was more like Rey saving them both than it was a team effort.
She momentarily freaks out after being hit with visions. She needed to get captured so the audience could see what would happen when Rey and Kylo are in a room together
Rey made a mistake when using a blaster for the first time before becoming an expert at it. Just like when she struggled a little while flying the falcon before becoming an expert at it, just like she struggled a tiny bit with the mind trick before becoming an expert at it, just like she struggled for a moment with the lightsaber before becoming an expert at it.
Finn didn't really have any choice other than to defend himself against Kylo and even if Finn wasn't there, Rey presumably would have just woken up in Kylo's ship and overpowered him like she did in the interrogation and again in the fight.
Yes, Chewie does give her a ride home after she beats the main villain on her own and saves Finn. Did Chewie feel like an equal hero with Rey like Han did when he showed up to rescue Luke from Vader?
Luke had talents and abilities but he could not do everything and he was not always the most qualified person for every job.
In ANH, Han would fly the Falcon because he was the best pilot
C3PO would translate things because Luke couldn't do that
R2 would hack into machine terminals
Chewie along with Han would work on repairs on the ship
Obi Wan was the jedi and handled the physical confrontations and rescued Luke from danger before Luke developed those skills of his own.
In TFA Rey is the pilot, Rey is the mechanic, Rey is the translator, Rey handles the physical confrontations, Rey hacks into the machine terminals, Rey is the jedi and handles the physical confrontations.
When she's on screen Rey does everything and her friends never get to look like her equals when they share a scene with her.
I remember a lot of Finn being impressed with Rey as she did mechanical work and flipped switches and flew the Falcon so well that she lined up his shots for him despite not knowing what position the gun was stuck in.
I remember a lot of scenes of Kylo acknowledging her power but still underestimating her anyway to make himself vulnerable.
I remember Chewie liking her because she happens to speak Wookie for no real reason. And I remember a lot of Han staring at her in awe as she fixed the Falcon for him.
Luke had a force master talking him through it and he used some jedi reflexes.
Rey on her own, just uses a jedi technique to control minds out of nowhere. Luke hadn't mastered blaster deflecting as thoroughly as Rey had mastered the mind trick by the end of the scene.
Kylo underestimates her in their fight, that's why she beats him down. But he already underestimated her in the interrogation and she overpowered and shamed him for it. He's stupid enough to keep underestimate someone who he was just saying really impressed him by being so powerful?
Kylo is no threat to Rey going into episode 8. Rey has already used her powers to defeat him and now Luke is going to teach her to finish mastering the skills she's already beaten him with. She's already as strong or stronger than him and presumably she has a lot more room to grow than Kylo who has already done most of his training.
Vader was too powerful for Luke to defeat so Luke had to be rescued from him at the end of the movie instead.
Vader was in a ship and they managed to disable his ship in a surprise attack.
Kylo got hit over and over and over without getting a single hit in back, and then he ends the movie sliced up in a heap at the hero's feet, her completely untouched.
Rey was allowed to receive assistance from her friends but she was never reduced to helplessness requiring rescue the way Luke was.
Luke was a handy mechanic too but they didn't need to have him be the hero of every scene he was in.
If Luke had made a mistake like that, he would have been grabbed by the rathtar and someone else would have gotten to look good saving him.
There's no doubt in my mind she would have beaten all the sand people.
She didn't need Finn to rescue her from Kylo. He tried and failed to defend himself before Rey got up and succeeded where he failed, beat Kylo by herself and rescued Finn and herself from him.
She never encountered anything she couldn't do better than everyone around her.
Luke isn't just some guy with the force, he's the son of the "chosen one" and the "chosen one" of his trilogy.
I don't want her to be the daughter of an old villain. I don't want her to be a niece of Palpatine or what ever the fan theory is.
I don't want Rey to be related to anyone form previous films.
I want her to be Rey! Just simple Rey who can use the force!
No impossible backstory!
Just simple Rey who can use the force! No impossible backstory!
Luke is just as Mary Sue. 19 year old farm boy saving the galaxy, never having flown in combat, is better that the older, more experience, fighter pilots. And like Mary Sue, gets an award. He's adored in the end, the Rebels' new golden boy.
I am a huge Rey fangirl, and TFA was my favorite movie ever! As you might know, the past 8 month I have been very busy defending Rey's honor against hordes of sexist manbabies and haters claiming that she is a Mary Sue. Which she is not, Luke is!
But while the haters are only a tiny, loudmouthed minority and everybody still loves Rey, there seems just no end to these basement dwellers and their mommy issues. They blame Rey for not getting a girl friend (except maybe Thumbelina and her four sisters LOL), and they won't admit Luke being a Mary Sue because he has a penis.
While I am a great debater and I am perfectly willing to fight against manbaby double standards until I am the last fangirl standing, I still would appreciate some support against the manosphere. Regarding this:
* Could you not have Luke in Episode 8 admit to Rey that he is a Mary Sue? That would be such an epic twist! And, and I heard there are reshoots for RO, I imagine you could easily have Jyn Erso spot Luke at the end, and say something like "You're a Mary Sue aren't you? Sue me!" LOLOLLOL! This would be so helpful in showing these immature manbabies who is right.
* Speaking of Ep 8, could you please tone down some of Rey's non-Sueness too? Like not having her lecture and save Luke all the time during training, or not have her construct/destroy the next DeathStar on her own? You know, just in case, to keep the manbaby minority quiet.
Very truly yours,
Vote Trump 2016!