Star Wars: The Force Awakens : What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

I wonder what the reaction from the fan base be if everything remained the same but they cast John Boyega as Rey and Daisy Ridley as Finn.

For me nothing would change. Rey would still be overpowered, display abilities and skills that did not fit his background, hogged the spotlight and negated all the tension. And Finn would be underpowered for her background and display a level of incompetence no 'elite' stormtrooper should display.

What do you all think? would your opinion change of either character for better or worse?

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

My opinion would still be negative. I dont care about a characters gender or skin colour. All i care about is seeing a well logically written character. In this case Rey was OP like the Saiyans in DBZ and Finn was a useless idiot who we are supposed to believe spent his life being trained on being a ruthless killing machine.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

Oh I fully agree. What do you think the majority audience reaction would be?

for example do you think as many woman and feminist would defend Rey to the degree they do now if she had been a black man instead?

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

It probably wouldn't have made as much money because a female Finn wouldn't fit the warrior princess character type. And the Western female audience would probably not be as endeared with the character. And if the character was done exactly the same, I could see the female Finn being accused of some "dumb blonde" moments.

As for a black man Rey. I could see some of the same issues coming up as the Daisy Ridley Rey, but not as much. Namely, how's this guy bailing himself out of situations with the Force without any training?

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


It probably wouldn't have made as much money because a female Finn wouldn't fit the warrior princess character type. And the Western female audience would probably not be as endeared with the character. And if the character was done exactly the same, I could see the female Finn being accused of some "dumb blonde" moments.



Oh there is no way it would have made as much money. I also think that the general audience would hate the film more than TPM.

Agreed on all comments here.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


'elite'


Where did you get elite from?

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

So you assume they were all janitors that Ren and Phasma brought on this most important mission for Snoke?

Finn should not have been a janitor. It is implied all but him were battle hardened soldiers and were Kylo's top force since they were the once he brought with him. Or did he bring the incompetent once on his mission to hunt down Luke? Not likely.

But I guess this is another sign of the poor writing that went into this film.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

Your "elite" remark was in realtion to Finn, not the squad brought by Ren to the oscillator. And I don't remember anyi of them being shown to be incompetent.



Finn should not have been a janitor.


So you're juding the character based on notions of what you would have liked him have been after watching him and judging the behaviour of the character on what you would have him be rather than the actual character in the move.


It is implied all but him were battle hardened soldiers


No it isn't. It's just convenient for your argument about what should or shouldn't be done to them by whomever you don't want to do them.


"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


Your "elite" remark was in realtion to Finn, not the squad brought by Ren to the oscillator. And I don't remember anyi of them being shown to be incompetent.




That is my point if he was just an incompetent janitor what the hell was he doing there during a essential raid operation? You do not take POGs (personnel other than Grunts) to the fire fight.


So you're juding the character based on notions of what you would have liked him have been after watching him and judging the behaviour of the character on what you would have him be rather than the actual character in the move.



No I am judging the character based on what the film suggests he is at first than twists it with his personality and further background later revealed. It made it stupid rather than interesting. I am judging the inconsistent lazy/stupid writing that ruined what could have been one of the most interesting characters in all of star wars. Think about it, the idea of a stormtrooper rebelling is an excellent notion and they pissed all over it.



No it isn't. It's just convenient for your argument about what should or shouldn't be done to them by whomever you don't want to do them.



You contradict yourself and you don't even realize it. Your first comment here states all but Finn were competent, now you back step and say it is convenient for me to say it was implied all other troopers there appeared to be battle hardened. So which is it. You conveniently ignore your own words when it suits your agenda. That is bad you cannot even remain consistent within the same post let alone the same discussion. No wonder you defend TFA how can one as inconsistent as you identify inconsistencies in a movie.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

Try educating yourself about what happens when totalitarian regimes overextend and fill their ranks with conscripts from conquered lands. E.g. Ost battalions

I don't know if you've ever seen any other movies in your life but misdirection and reveal/reverse has been established as and credible gag or storytelling device for decades.

Your attempt at this "Who's on first" confusion at what's being said is pretty transparent and has been done far better on IMDb. You're no phenix717.

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


Try educating yourself about what happens when totalitarian regimes overextend and fill their ranks with conscripts from conquered lands. E.g. Ost battalions


Spoken like someone that has never been in combat, the military or probably even a school yard fight. I think you are coward son of bitch. Get your head out of your ass and get real world percpective and not B.S. 'education' that is biased and false seminating.


I don't know if you've ever seen any other movies in your life but misdirection and reveal/reverse has been established as and credible gag or storytelling device for decades.



Yup a device used by crappy writers to hold the audience attention and distract from the weak writing. It is the classic "what's in the box" cliché. A coherent well put together story has mystery without the story relying on it like TFA does.


Your attempt at this "Who's on first" confusion at what's being said is pretty transparent and has been done far better on IMDb. You're no phenix717.




I do not even know what you are talking about here. Is this because I pointed out you contradicting yourself? I am not attempting any kind of confusion. You are lost within your own words and opinion and argument and now you are doubling down and refusing to see how your own opinion is not consistent within even a single post. You assume I am playing some game when in truth you are just a confused person that is also ignorant about their own inconsistency and yet remain arrogant about your opinion and delusions of superiority.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

Both Rey and Finn would remain terribly written characters. However, I strongly believe TFA would've been far more offensive to general audiences, especially white women and feminists.

For example, imagine the reaction to seeing the black man aggressively charge the white girl in the desert market, knocking her on her ass with his staff before accusing her of theft. I honestly think most people never would've forgiven black male Rey for that. Meanwhile, white female Rey gets a pass. She doesn't even need to apologize for her rudeness.

Besides moments like that, a lot of people would've taken offense to the white girl lacking any skills, bumbling, looking scared and cowardly, losing fights, needing to be saved regularly, being made the butt of several jokes, getting her ass kicked by Kylo Ren and finishing the film in a coma.

Again, this is somehow acceptable for the black guy. "He's so brave and relatable!" they say. 😒

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

Black MaRey Sue also would've offended insecure racists/white supremacists, unless they were willing to put his race aside to focus on him being an empowered man vs. an empowered woman.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


For example, imagine the reaction to seeing the black man aggressively charge the white girl in the desert market


You're incorrectly assuming that the audience sees that scene as a white girl charging agressively at the black man, rather than the person who feels responsible for BB-8 responding to its warnings about a loitering stranger with clothes that it believes must have been stolen from its master. Changing genders and race does not alter this dynamic.

The significance of inferred sexual and or gender politics of this part of the story are really only the chosen and wilful preoccupations of those who wish to deconstruct the integrity of the film-maker's choices on paper.



"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?



You're incorrectly assuming that the audience sees that scene as a white girl charging agressively at the black man, rather than the person who feels responsible for BB-8 responding to its warnings about a loitering stranger with clothes that it believes must have been stolen from its master. Changing genders and race does not alter this dynamic.



If you truly believe that the general audience would react to this specific scene the same way if Rey was a black guy and Finn was a female you are lying to yourself. the dynamic would be drastically changed in the eyes of the general public and the scene would not get the pass that it does. the entire film would not get the pass it does on the lazy writing.


the integrity of the film-maker's choices on paper.



hahahaha the "integrity" of the film-makers. that is laughable.

What integrity? you mean how can we design this film to get maximum profit by playing off the stupidity and wish fulfillment of the lowest common denominator? Is that the integrity you are talking about?

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

Who said it wouldn't be changed? I never said it wouldn't be changed. I said that practcally no-one except for spectactularly uptight nincompoops view that scene as white girl agressively confronting black man. It's Rey chasing Finn. If Rey was a black guy and Finn was white girl it would still be Rey chasing Finn, but only someone with a racist agenda would redfine it as black on white dynamic.


hahahaha the "integrity" of the film-makers. that is laughable.


IS that laugh indication of a sudden and even more severe evaporation of remaining brain cells? Or do you normally take words (like "deconstructing the integrity of the film-maker's choice out of context? OR maybe you're not questioning the integrity of the film-makers. Either way it's a pretty embarassing non-sequitur.



"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


Who said it wouldn't be changed? I never said it wouldn't be changed. I said that practcally no-one except for spectactularly uptight nincompoops view that scene as white girl agressively confronting black man. It's Rey chasing Finn. If Rey was a black guy and Finn was white girl it would still be Rey chasing Finn, but only someone with a racist agenda would redfine it as black on white dynamic.



You suggested you believed it wouldn't change and that anyone that thought it would imply racist or sexist mentality. And your follow up comment only reinforces that suggestion. YOu really do not think people ignore certain taboos and securitize other ones. For example, Black guy gets accused of a crime based off circumstantial evidence and gets beat by a white girl during apprehension. switch the race and gender I promise you the general audience would respond much differently. If you do not believe that you are lying to yourself.


IS that laugh indication of a sudden and even more severe evaporation of remaining brain cells? Or do you normally take words (like "deconstructing the integrity of the film-maker's choice out of context? OR maybe you're not questioning the integrity of the film-makers. Either way it's a pretty embarassing non-sequitur.



Nah that laugh is what happens when I am confronted by the epitome of stupidity. I did not take comment out of context I just suggested the film makers had no integrity outside maximum profit. Better that than using your words as a deflection of the point as you continuously do to others. I engage you deflect. I explain clearly, you evade. I rise above, you shrink like a turtle. go back to you shell before I crush you head stupid.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

Like he said "to you" because that's how you see the scene. I myself didn't look at it like "Oh look at that white girl chasing that black guy" cause their race and gender are inconsequential to the scene as a whole. Just like if the genders and races were swamped.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


Like he said "to you" because that's how you see the scene.


Honestly that is not how I saw the scene when I first saw the film. It only came up in this discussion board but it does make for an interesting discussion.

The way I saw was they were just trying very hard to make Rey look awesome. That is a problem in its own way but nothing to do with gender or race, but instead marketing the new lead of the film. It was just so forced and contrived it was painful to watch.



I myself didn't look at it like "Oh look at that white girl chasing that black guy" cause their race and gender are inconsequential to the scene as a whole.


Neither did I, and the race and gender should be inconsequential to the scene as a whole. But there is a significant difference between the way things are and the way they should be. If you believe those things do not matter and that the swap would have no affect on the audiences reaction I think you are being foolishly optimistic about people.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

I agree with this and I see what you're saying. These other posters are either not paying attention or are acting like they don't.

If Finn had hit Rey instead of Rey hitting Finn the problem for female and feminist audiences wouldn't have been that a black person hit a white person but that a man hit a woman. Anybody that's being honest would know that wouldn't fly with audiences that are made up of a significant amount of women and children. We all know if that had been the case there would have been immediate cries of sexism and accusations of the producers promoting violence against women. Because of that and the fact that film is in the age of empowered women, Finn being made to look as superior to Rey as Rey looked to Finn would have probably caused outraged that would have made national news which would have probably prevented the movie from doing as well as it did.

That's the reality whether people want to admit it or not.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


If Finn had hit Rey instead of Rey hitting Finn the problem for female and feminist audiences wouldn't have been that a black person hit a white person but that a man hit a woman


I haven't seen any females or feminists report that they have such a problem with Rey being thrown thirty feet in the air and knocked unconscious by a man. So I don't know how you conclude that the sexual dynamic would be the main issue for them here.




"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


I haven't seen any females or feminists report that they have such a problem with Rey being thrown thirty feet in the air and knocked unconscious by a man. So I don't know how you conclude that the sexual dynamic would be the main issue for them here.


Context matters.

Rey was knocked out to set up her big reveal moment with the lightsaber. Similar to that thug hitting Rey in the face on Jakku, TFA used the attack to elicit a protective reaction out of Finn. It then went on to prove that he couldn't stop the threat himself. Rey ended up taking care of Kylo Ren herself before saving Finn - again. And, after bumbling, losing fights and needing to be saved by white saviors the whole film, the token black guy was rewarded by spending the remainder of TFA in a coma. Not bad for a film called The Force AWAKENS.

Rey ended up being empowered from being knocked out, so there was no real reason for women and feminists to complain. And, just like when the thug hit her, Rey suffered no injury from being slammed into the tree. No broken bones, no bruises, no limping, etc.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

Oh so context is important now?

The confrontation between Rey, BB-8 and Finn sets up Finn's compassion and altruism. In spite of being accused he is understanding, following his experience with Poe, of the loyal little droid's distress.

What's Finn being rescued, along with Han and Chewie, got to do with people being hit and your flip-flopping on whether the context or the colour of the preson's skin is important?


"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


Oh so context is important now?


When have I said otherwise?


The confrontation between Rey, BB-8 and Finn sets up Finn's compassion and altruism. In spite of being accused he is understanding, following his experience with Poe, of the loyal little droid's distress.


How did getting his ass kicked and disrespected make Finn compassionate? It showed that Rey and BB-8 had no problem assaulting Finn while accusing him of theft. Once they had realized their mistake, did they at least offer up an apology? No.


What's Finn being rescued, along with Han and Chewie, got to do with people being hit and your flip-flopping on whether the context or the colour of the preson's skin is important?


What are you talking about? Han was already dead, and Chewie didn't need rescuing near the end of the film.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


How did getting his ass kicked and disrespected make Finn compassionate?


Never said it "made" him compassionate. This is your idea, as in....


Rey ended up being empowered from being knocked out


I don't see how she gets power from being knocked out. She gets knocked out because of her impulsive response to Ren taunting her. It's Finn that empowers her by holding off Ren long enough to give her a second chance at listening to and acting on her calling.

I said that Fin being knocked down is part of the scene that shows him to be, in spite of his knock down, compassionate and understanding. Every scene were Rey is in difficulty or makes a mistake is supposedly just a set up to show how great she is so...


? It showed that Rey and BB-8 had no problem assaulting Finn while accusing him of theft.


Wait a second. I thought you guys complained that the movie went out of its way to unrealistically highlight how pure and god like she was.


Once they had realized their mistake, did they at least offer up an apology


I don't speak droid so can't speak for BB-8. As for Rey, I don't think she had good enough reason to instantly trust him. But the circumstances compelled them to co-operate and they were bonded by their escape efforts. Capisce?


What are you talking about? Han was already dead, and Chewie didn't need rescuing near the end of the film.


Talking about Takodana, not the end of the film.

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


I don't see how she gets power from being knocked out. She gets knocked out because of her impulsive response to Ren taunting her. It's Finn that empowers her by holding off Ren long enough to give her a second chance at listening to and acting on her calling.


What I mean is that the filmmakers purposely knocked out Rey here in order to force Finn to fight Kylo Ren with a lightsaber. Disney then used some of that footage in their trailers and marketing to mislead fans into thinking Finn was at least one of the new Jedi in the film when that was never confirmed.

Once Finn got his ass whupped, Rey became empowered by having her big reveal moment before defeating Kylo Ren. Finn kept Kylo busy, but he wasn't allowed to achieve a personal victory.


I said that Fin being knocked down is part of the scene that shows him to be, in spite of his knock down, compassionate and understanding. Every scene were Rey is in difficulty or makes a mistake is supposedly just a set up to show how great she is so...


Notice how Finn's compassion for Rey kept backfiring one way or another. He looked bad, needed saving, etc. Why do you think that is? Rey wasn't just set up to be great. Compared to her, Rey's co-lead was made to be inferior. No advanced skills, lost both fights, no heroic saves or personal achievements. Made the butt of several jokes, etc.


Wait a second. I thought you guys complained that the movie went out of its way to unrealistically highlight how pure and god like she was.


I was focusing on her competency. Plus, Rey and BB-8 disrespecting Finn wasn't treated like it was a big deal.


I don't speak droid so can't speak for BB-8. As for Rey, I don't think she had good enough reason to instantly trust him. But the circumstances compelled them to co-operate and they were bonded by their escape efforts. Capisce?


The answer is no, they did not. Finn mentioned Poe. BB-8 got depressed and left. Rey then changed the subject by asking him if he was with the Resistance. No apology or sense of embarrassment. This isn't about trust. This is about Rey apologizing for her rude behavior.


Talking about Takodana, not the end of the film.


Oh, okay. I took a moment to talk about Finn's treatment throughout the film.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

I know I'm late replying to this but that's not true. That had nothing to do with setting up Finn's altruism. He already showed altruism when he escaped with Poe and when he started to go help Rey when she was attacked by those two aliens.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

The difference is Kylo is a bad guy so everyone could reasonably expect that he would potentially engage in that type of behavior. Not only that but that he would get his comeuppance for engaging in said behavior. There was no expectation for comeuppance for Rey for hitting Finn since she was a good guy. If as the title of the thread asks, it was reversed, there would be almost no one in the audience that would be comfortable with a man that's presented as being on the side of good hitting a woman. Unlike with Rey there would never be an expectation that a good guy should get away with hitting a woman. Also, as I said before the producers would never hear the end of how they're promoting violence against women.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

That's a stupid argument. When Finn got beaten up by Rey it was to set up how amazing Rey was. When Kylo threw Rey against a tree it was also to set up how amazing Rey was. Nobody would complain about Rey getting knocked out by Kylo because she just gets up and beats Kylo's ass by herself. Finn doesn't get to get up and hit Rey back or prove himself to be better than her in any way or even equal to her in any way.

In both of these situations Finn is beaten up and doesn't get to succeed at anything while Rey does the beating up and gets to look awesome. Of course there would be complaints from women if Finn's role had been played by a woman.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


The way I saw was they were just trying very hard to make Rey look awesome. That is a problem in its own way but nothing to do with gender or race, but instead marketing the new lead of the film. It was just so forced and contrived it was painful to watch.


Do you think they would've tried this hard to make Rey empowered and skilled, especially at the expense of others, if she had been a male character?

To be clear, I'm not against badass female characters in Star Wars. In fact, I wish half of the cast for each Star Wars film was female. I'm against Mary Sue characters, male or female. I count kid Anakin as a Gary Stu.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


Do you think they would've tried this hard to make Rey empowered and skilled


You guys will need to pin yourselves down and get your story straight. Is the movie lazy or are they trying too hard with this Rey stuff? Because it seems to change every 6 hours.

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


You guys will need to pin yourselves down and get your story straight. Is the movie lazy or are they trying too hard with this Rey stuff? Because it seems to change every 6 hours.


Why do you think it has to be one or the other?

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

Laziness and hard work are mutually exclusive.

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

wow. Are you competing with Ruby to be the dumbest person on earth?

You know damn well what we mean by lazy writing and 'working hard' to make Rey look good.

If they had legitimately working hard to make Rey an empowerment symbol it would not have been so obvious. It was lazy and heavy handed lacking all subtly.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

You cannot be lazy and hard working at the same time, unless you are talking about two completely separate things.

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


You cannot be lazy and hard working at the same time, unless you are talking about two completely separate things.


Did you even read the post I wrote? OR are you intentionally being dense?


You know damn well what we mean by lazy writing and 'working hard' to make Rey look good.



Since you are either purposefully being an idiot or just flat out stupid to begin with I will elaborate on my own comment:

the filmmakers overall were 'working hard' to make this film for specific audiences. In the case of Rey and Finn they were targeting female and black viewers. This is the producers demanding of the writer and director, namely JJ to come up with an all powerful female character that can be a combination of the sexy princess, the young warrior and the dashing rogue (Leia, Luke and Han all in one) and also a black cliché run away slave story. This decision was made in a board room and did not involve that much 'hard work'.

Now If the writing had not been so lazy it would have done a better job in being more subtle and not make this agenda of the producers so gladly obvious.

Now stop being stupid about what we mean by the lazy writing and the 'working hard' to make Rey look good. Those things are not mutually exclusive.

Now piss off.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

Bravo .

---
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

Thank you very much. (Bows)

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

(Thank you, Mario, but our princess is in another castle! Just kidding!)>👰

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

Oh right. I didn't realise that bizarro world had sent their top diplomat to negotiate a perverse, paranoid, delusional settlement for all the nutters on that planet.

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

Well we are living in a bizarre world where as long as the common consensus agrees bad is good and good is bad. We are all suppose to come to the same conclusion based off a false predetermined idealized version of what marketing giants force feed us.

It is really quite sad that you have been manipulated and you fail to see it.


Oh right. I didn't realise that bizarro world had sent their top diplomat to negotiate a perverse, paranoid, delusional settlement for all the nutters on that planet.



Why does this comment sound an awful a lot like Burke in Aliens when they are questioning him about trying to get the aliens through quarantine?

"This is so nuts. I mean, listen - listen to what you're saying. It's paranoid delusion. How - It's really sad. It's pathetic. " - Burke



Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

@saviodium.

If you believe those things do not matter and that the swap would have no affect on the audiences reaction I think you are being foolishly optimistic about people.
I think some of these people you're responding to more than likely said all or one of these things before(on or off the internet)."I don't see color",I don't care if a person is white,black,green,pink or yellow","why bring race in a conversation?",and "stop playing the race card". Most of the responses to your question are what I expected on IMDb(I expect similar comments in the comment sections of YouTube,Yahoo and Reddit).

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


You suggested you believed it wouldn't change


I explicitly stated it wouldn't change from a white girl on black guy scene to a black guy on white girl scene because I believe, perhaps optimstically, don't share such idiotically narrow assessement of the scene.


I did not take comment out of context I just suggested the film makers had no integrity


I had already credited you with possessing that attitude. But it appears that you are unable to read properly since you immediately picked it of that context out as a point of contention, as if you needed to introduce the idea that you did not believe they had integrity.

I am looking forward to my four yeard nephew's graduation from nursery school this week. Because at least there's young people there who have bothered to learn how to conduct a civilised conversation.


"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


I explicitly stated it wouldn't change from a white girl on black guy scene to a black guy on white girl scene because I believe, perhaps optimstically, don't share such idiotically narrow assessement of the scene.



Your sentence is incomplete I am not sure what you meant there. The scene itself would not change but the audiences reaction to it certainly would. Are you saying you "optimistically" believe that people wouldn't be narrow minded enough to see it differently? If so I think you are a fool. But I tend to see optimists as being foolish and naïve. And easy to take advantage off. Maybe that is the correlation between those like TFA and those that don't. Those that are easily fooled like it, those that are not don't. I could be wrong but there seems to be a trend with optimism and foolishly trusting the wrong things.


I had already credited you with possessing that attitude. But it appears that you are unable to read properly since you immediately picked it of that context out as a point of contention, as if you needed to introduce the idea that you did not believe they had integrity.



Actually you specifically did not. Your quote: "Or do you normally take words (like "deconstructing the integrity of the film-maker's choice out of context? OR maybe you're not questioning the integrity of the film-makers. "

So you said I was NOT questioning the integrity of the film-makers. I do not normally point out typos and grammar mistakes but this one changed the entire meaning of the sentence. So I misunderstood your point.


I am looking forward to my four yeard nephew's graduation from nursery school this week. Because at least there's young people there who have bothered to learn how to conduct a civilised conversation.



Well I can say your level of intelligence, foolish optimism, gullibility, and naiveté you will fit in very nicely with four "yeard" olds. Just be careful if you are a single man you are likely to run into some trouble.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

Who's on first?

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?

No you just do not know how to formulate a complete consistent, coherent thought. That is because you are stupid.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


If you truly believe that the general audience would react to this specific scene the same way if Rey was a black guy and Finn was a female you are lying to yourself.


.

---
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


You're incorrectly assuming that the audience sees that scene as a white girl charging agressively at the black man, rather than the person who feels responsible for BB-8 responding to its warnings about a loitering stranger with clothes that it believes must have been stolen from its master. Changing genders and race does not alter this dynamic.

The significance of inferred sexual and or gender politics of this part of the story are really only the chosen and wilful preoccupations of those who wish to deconstruct the integrity of the film-maker's choices on paper.


Star Wars does not exist in a bubble.

We see and experience things through the lenses of our own perspectives. We don't all perceive the same things, even if we share the same gender or race. While I recognize what was going on in the story, as a black man, I also saw the visual of the black male character being disrespected and assaulted by the white female for her empowerment and his emasculation. In fact, when I compared these two so-called "co-leads", I noticed that the black guy was never a threat to the clear superiority of the white girl.

Now, that may not mean anything to you or most people, but this feels way to much like white supremacy to me. Doesn't pass the smell test.

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


Star Wars does not exist in a bubble.


No it doesn't. It is as subject to paranoid theories and hysterical delusions and demented chicken-shìttery as everything else.


While I recognize what was going on in the story, as a black man, I also saw the visual of the black male character being disrespected and assaulted by the white female for her empowerment and his emasculation


So what you are saying is that the you, as a black man, appreciate the justification in the context of the story, but in spite of that you choose personally to define the scene and conclude that its true intent is to subjugate one race and gender and raise another on high. In other words movies are designed and the general public perceives them firstly as conscious affirmation of the filmmaker's and their target audience's bigotry.



"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

Re: What if Finn was a Woman and Rey was a Black Guy?


No it doesn't. It is as subject to paranoid theories and hysterical delusions and demented chicken-shìttery as everything else.


Thanks for acting like an adult. 👏


So what you are saying is that the you, as a black man, appreciate the justification in the context of the story, but in spite of that you choose personally to define the scene and conclude that its true intent is to subjugate one race and gender and raise another on high. In other words movies are designed and the general public perceives them firstly as conscious affirmation of the filmmaker's and their target audience's bigotry.


Why does it have to be one or the other?

Yes, in-story, Finn's race had absolutely nothing to do with Rey assaulting him while accusing him of theft. However, at the same time, it rubbed me the wrong way, as a black man, to see the token black guy aggressively chased down, assaulted, accused of theft and tased twice for laughs. Mind you, this occurred shortly after he drank out of a dirty animal trough right next to an alien beast.

Things like this rub me the wrong way and reek of "J.D.L.R" = "Just Doesn't Look Right".

I don't know the filmmakers' intentions beyond what they say, but that's not the point. What ultimately matters to me is how a character is portrayed, since that's easy to observe, not why. Time and time again, the token black guy was made to be inferior to his white female co-lead. He also:

- drank out of a dirty animal trough right next to an alien beast
- was tased and assaulted while being accused of theft
- was choked by Chewie like he was Lando
- was revealed to be a janitor
- talked a bit too much like Kevin Hart
- was a runaway slave character
Top