Sports : most overrated player from 4 major sports!

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So Judge Chin knows a fraud when he sees one,

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Really? Care to explain this?





http://nypost.com/2014/07/24/madoff-judge-duped-by-scammer-posing-as-ponzi-villain/

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Care to explain this?

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Judge Denny Chin sentenced Bernie Madoff to a 150-year prison term because Judge Chin could see that Madoff was a huge fraud. Similarly, Judge Chin casted the deciding vote to re-instate Brady's 4-game suspension for cheating because Judge Chin could see from his objective review of the compelling evidence against Brady that Brady was a huge fraud.

You Brady supporters always accuse me of being biased against Brady, but that's false. I'm always objective and unbiased. The Wells Report was released to the public about 3 to 4 months after the AFC Championship Game. During those 3 to 4 months, I didn't jump to any conclusions and I kept reminding people on here who kept saying that DeflateGate was over that the investigation was still on-going and we should wait for the investigation to be completed.

If Ted Wells had exonerated the Patriots for DeflateGate, I would've accepted Wells' findings. In fact, Wells did exonerate Belichick of any wrongdoing in DeflateGate, and I did accept Wells' findings on that. I haven't written any posts blaming Belichick for DeflateGate. But while Wells exonerated Belichick for DeflateGate, Wells also found Brady guilty of cheating in DeflateGate.

Since I'm always objective and unbiased, I can't just accept Wells' findings of Belichick's innocence while rejecting Wells' findings of Brady's guilt. I have to accept Wells' findings on both, and that's what I did as an objective and unbiased person.

After the Wells Report was released, Robert Kraft and the Patriots began a smear campaign to try to discredit Wells and accused Wells of being biased, even though Kraft himself had praised Wells for his independence and integrity when Wells was hired to conduct the investigation. So I decided that I would wait for the federal appellate court to decide because (even though I disagree with the claims by Kraft and Patriots' fans that Wells was biased against Brady) surely the federal appellate court judges wouldn't have any bias against Brady.

So if the federal appellate court had struck down Brady's 4-game suspension for cheating, then I would've accepted that Brady was innocent. But the federal appellate court affirmed the guilty verdict against Brady and upheld Brady's 4-game suspension for cheating. Federal appellate court judges would never uphold a punishment for a defendant if they believed that defendant was innocent so since the federal appellate court judges upheld Brady's 4-game suspension for cheating, that means the federal appellate court judges believe that Brady is guilty. So I have to accept the decision of the federal appellate court judges, who have no affiliation with the NFL and who took an oath to review evidence and judge without any bias.

But you Brady fanboys still won't accept the decision of an unbiased federal appellate court. You Brady fanboys are a lot like Hillary supporters. Hillary supporters refuse to accept that Hillary lost because she was a crooked and corrupt candidate, and you Brady fanboys refuse to accept that Brady was suspended for 4 games because he's a cheater and fraud.

But the court has spoken. So now Brady will forever be branded with the stigma of a cheater and fraud the same way that Shoeless Joe Jackson will always be branded with the stigma of the Black Sox Scandal.

You went on that long post as a defense to your statement that Denny Chin knowsaid a fraud when he sees one but you completely ignored the link. Here it is again ace

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000055/nest/265427128

So I ask again,if he knows a fraud when he sees one, how did this happen?

We had this conversation the other day, but you never replied to me. Why is that?

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000055/thread/265334045?p=2


The future is in the hands of a man who has none.(As in no future, as opposed to no hands.)

Throw it on the pile with all the other threads he's abandoned because his ass was thoroughly handed to him. He's a fountain of mistruths and bad predictions.

It's possible Brady's teams wouldn't have any Super Bowls without cheating, nobody knows. The reported cheating went way, way beyond what they ever got punished for.

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It's possible Brady's teams wouldn't have any Super Bowls without cheating, nobody knows. The reported cheating went way, way beyond what they ever got punished for.

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That's true. Even with DeflateGate, the cheating was more than just 1 game. Jim "The Deflator" McNally had called himself "The Deflator" long before the AFC Championship Game so obviously Jim "The Deflator" McNally had been deflating footballs for Brady to use in games for a long time before the AFC Championship Game.

Most likely, the ball tampering began after the Chiefs blew out the Patriots that season. It had been 9 years since the Patriots won a Super Bowl and Brady realized after the blowout loss to the Chiefs that he wasn't going back to the Super Bowl again unless he started cheated again. So Brady, Jim "The Deflator" McNally, and Jastremski came up with a scheme to tamper with the footballs.

Considering the fact that Brady lobbied the NFL to allow visiting teams to bring their own balls all the way back in 2006, I wouldn't be surprised if a deflation scheme had been going on for close to a decade.

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Brady pushed for rule to let visiting team provide own footballs
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/22/brady-pushed-for-rule-to-let-visiting-team-provide-own-footballs/

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The reported cheating went way, way beyond what they ever got punished for.

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You know that's just a complete fabrication, right?

No it's not.

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Spikes, Talib say Patriots file false injury reports
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/19/spikes-talib-say-patriots-file-false-injury-reports/

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No penalty from the league of course, but who cares right? It's only cheating.

Spygate also started with a former team member calling out the Patriots for cheating too.

With Spygate, the Patriots got a slap on the wrist and the tapes were destroyed. If there's nothing left to hide, what's the point in destroying the tapes?

Then of course we have all the other accusations which can't be proved without another admission of someone from the Patriots organization, like how the opposing team's headsets mysteriously malfunction at important parts of the game when playing at Foxborough.

Talib lol what a dirty player

You could argue the Patriots are a dirty organization.

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NFL Tom Brady

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Agreed.

Bob Costas once said that Barry Bonds would still be a great player and 1 of the best players of his era without steroids, but he wouldn't be in the 700+ HR club with Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron if not for steroids. Steroids is what helped Bonds reach Ruthian levels.

Likewise, without cheating Brady would still be a pretty good QB, but he wouldn't have won any Super Bowls without cheating. Cheating is what helped Brady win 4 Super Bowls. Basically, without cheating Brady and the Patriots would just be this generation's version of the 1990s Buffalo Bills, a pretty good team that wasn't good enough to win the Super Bowl.

NBA: Blake Griffin, maybe the most overrated player in the history of team sports

NFL: Carson Palmer

NHL: Carey Price

MLB: I have to think more about this, but Justin Upton immediately springs to mind.

Price?

Risky call, I admit.and yes, my hatred of all things Montreal may be a factor, but wake me up when Price actually does something in the playoffs.

I've seen two Montreal games this year, and in both of them (against Sharks and Wild) Price gave up a ton of goals, got yanked, and glared at his teammates as he left the ice.

Crappy teammate, crappy clutch goalie.

NBAI agree to an extent with Yao Ming, though I think his cultural importance was significant and plus with his injuries and their effect on what would have been a much longer, I wouldn't consider him that overrated. I don't necessarily believe he was considered that elite to begin with. Iverson was great but would have been better if he had simply tried to be a point guard rather than an undersized 2-guard that developed into a ball-hog. Still probably overrated, but I wouldn't vote for him in this category necessarily.
My NBA choice would be someone like Antoine Walker.

NFLYeah I would agree with Emmitt Smith. Barry Sanders was a hell of a lot better, even with a piss-poor o-line. I don't consider Emmitt Smith bad, but he definitely had a great QB, great OL, great team overall that was the main reason for his success.

MLBI agree that Jeter is overrated. But my vote would go to Bo Jackson. Don't get me wrong; I think Bo was brilliant as an athlete overall (and actually a much better football player than baseball), but there are those that consider him as Hall of Fame level, which is preposterous when you look at his stats. He was a great tailback in football, but simply just a home run hitter in baseball and didn't hit for average, RBIs, swung at everything and was not even a great defensive player.


When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!

jerome bettis is more overrated than emmitt smith

Where do you think Bettis rates?

The highest Ive found him on any list was 18th all time, floating around players like Edgerrin James and John Riggins.

Allen Iverson is in the hall of fame. Hardly over-rated. 11 time All Star, league MVP, averaged nearly 27ppg, and wasvone of the best shooting guards of all time.

A.I will always be remembered for ONE WORD. and that word is

Practice. If you haven't seen it, since it was nearly 15 years ago, just look up Allen Iverson Practice on Youtube.


Destroying an empire to win a war is no victory and ending a battle to save an empire is no defeat

NBA - LeBron James, he's a straight up bitch

Don't care about the rest of the leagues

Yao Ming was AMAZING. Dude had an unprecedented jumper for a man that size. Plus he was big and strong and could post you up. He was also an amazing passer. And was dominant defensively.

Most athletes are rated about where they belong. There's usually numbers to back up any arguments there, thankfully.

NBA - Carmelo Anthony. People praise his talent - and he is talented - but his style of play will never bring a championship to any team he has or ever will play on.

NFL - I'll make Wolfman hard and say Alex Smith. I've defended him in the past for not being a bad QB, but a lot of people actually think he's a great QB. I still run into 49er fans in the Bay Area that say he got a "raw deal" and that he was the better player than Kap a few years ago. What on earth?? #AltFacts

Honorable mention: Kam Chancellor - a good player, but he's looked at by many as this feared, shut-down safety and he's really, really not.

MLB - Don't care / follow enough baseball.

NHL - Homer pick : Gustav Nyquist

From my lifetime:

NFL: Joe Namath, Terrell Owens, Brian Bosworth

NBA: Paul Westphal, Shaquille O'Neal

MLB: Cal Ripken Jr., Nolan Ryan

NHL: Alex Ovechkin

NFL - Tom Brady

I fully realize how short the memory is of people these days, especially sports fans. Back around 2004/2005, Brady was being talked about as not only better than Joe Montana, but being touted as possibly the best of all time. In my life, I've never come across another example of an NFL player being so ridiculously overrated at a particular time. He was absolutely nowhere near deserving of that kind of praise at that point in his career. I don't give a flying f^ck what he's done since then. I know how good the man is. At that point, the praise was a joke and a prime example of how awful the hype machine in sports can be when discussed by highly ignorant or biased people.


NBA - Shaquille O'Neal

The man had enormous potential. I was a fan of his at first. Then, I began to see how many offensive fouls he was getting away with. I began to see how little talent he actually displayed on the court. Selected as one of the 50 greatest players of all timein 1997. Not only was this guy mainly a brute who bulldozed his way to the hoop, but he didn't actually start winning any noteworthy individual accolades (nor did his teams win any rings) until most of his competition at the Center spot was gone or past their prime.

Honorable Mention - LeBron James

He graced a Sports Illustrated cover that read "Best Ever?"in 2005.


He was a beautiful pony! And I loved him.

So people thought Tom Brady was great and was going to be one of the best ever in 2004 and those people turned out to be right so that makes Brady over rated. Sorry your logic is baffling.

"Let us die young or let us live forever
We don't have the power but we never say never

Do you really need clarification on this? My goodness.

These people were saying that he was "better than Montana" and "possibly the best of all time".at that time. Did you see where I typed "around 2004/2005"?

For f^ck's sake, Jenny. Learn to read and pay attention to details.


He was a beautiful pony! And I loved him.

most times when people say "he is better then so/so" they are projecting stats , people say Mike Trout is one of the greatest Outfieldes ever because he has the stats he does at 24 and there is no reason to think he will slow down, if someone saw Brady in 2004 with three Super Bowls already and saw he was ahead of Montana at the same age then why wouldn't they say it, because those people turned out to be 100% right.



"Let us die young or let us live forever
We don't have the power but we never say never

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if someone saw Brady in 2004 with three Super Bowls already and saw he was ahead of Montana at the same age then why wouldn't they say it, because those people turned out to be 100% right.

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Actually, they turned out to be 100% wrong. They didn't know at that time that Brady won those first 3 Super Bowls because of cheating from SpyGate. But now everybody knows that Brady is a cheater and a fraud.

Historically:

NBA - Carmelo Anthony or Allen Iverson
NFL - Michael Vick or The Frig
MLB - Nolan Ryan or Ozzie Smith
NHL - not a clue


Currently

NBA - Russell Westbrook
NFL - Ezekiel Elliott
MLB - Yasiel Puig
NFL - not a clue

Anyone picking Crosby or Ovechkin as being overrated, let alone most overrated are not thinking right.

J: You still eating? K: I'm still hungry.
T: You should lay off those candy bars.

I'm commenting on the Brady/cheating feud. Fair or not he will be linked to 2 cheating scandals. There's enough evidence on both occurences to make you doubt his validity as the GOAT. Heck, even now anti-Brady can argue the PAtriots only beat the Steelers becasue they had a fan sound an alarm at the hotel. Once again some shady occurences surrounding PAtriots/Brady.

Now My list and I'll argue why. Then I'll drop my opinion on current palyers

nba- Kobe
being overrated doesn't mean you can't still be great. Kobe was a great baller but due to the hype and constant media attention he received he was not worth the attention.
My argument: The first year without any good-solid players he couldn't lead his team to the playoffs. I know it was in the west, but if you insert any other NBA player considered in the GOAT conversation would that team have made the playoffs? MJ, Wilt, LeBron, or even LArry Bird would have had at least a fighting chance of getting them in the playoffs. Kobe is in the GOAt conversation but that season indicates he is overhyped and overrated.

nfl- Mike Vick
He was a naturally gifted athlete, and should have been a great player but he never had the mental or intangible skills to back that up. He was really up lifted by the media as one of the best QBs but he was really only maybe top 7-10 each season. But based on media attention you would have thought he was one of the top 2-3.

MLB- Derek Jeter
I personally dislike Jeter, based on ESPN and media worship of the guy. He always got too much credit for the Yankees success. He was a great player, but the media worship was nauseating. He would hit a ground ball to the 2nd baseman and you'd here his at bat wore the pitcher down so the next hitter could belt a home run, or how he stared at the 1st baseman while running to the bag and this caused the hitter to strike out the next 3 at bats.

nhl: don't know enough about

Current:
NBA- Steph Curry
NFL- Phillip Rivers
MLB- Bryce Harper


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Is this Idaho? Because I will not limbo in Idaho.

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he will be linked to 2 cheating scandals. There's enough evidence on both occurences to make you doubt his validity as the GOAT.

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Agreed. Shoeless Joe Jackson has forever been linked with the Black Sox Scandal and Brady similarly will forever be linked with SpyGate and DeflateGate. Brady will forever be branded with the stigma of being the biggest cheater and fraud in NFL history.

Lol Brady is GOAT

You forgot the C. Brady is the GCOAT - Greatest Cheater of All-Time. LOL!!!

Lol

Even if Brady were involved in Spygate and Deflategate, they're more of a knock against his integrity than his talent. Neither one of those were the kind of thing that could make a so-so (or even pretty good) player great.

NFL.Michael Vick
NBA.Bill Walton


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Emmitt Smith for sure.

but if you are overrating them just stop doing that

unless this is some masturbatory exercise where the pretense is that everyone else sees it your way and shares your confusion

what does that feel like?


I Excel and Prevail

I have always noticed a huge lack of basketball knowledge on this board. Just reading this thread makes it obvious that maybe 2-3 posters on the entire board even know basketball well enough to discuss it here.

GO SIXERS!!!
Phillies
Fly Eagles Fly

Bravo - football
Jake Ball - Rugby
James Faulkner - Cricketer
John Bateman - Rugby League

ΨΨ

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nfl - emmitt smith. anybody could have done what he did with that o line

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That O-line is the most overrated thing in NFL history, hands down.

First of all, it wasn't one O-linethey changed at least one player every year in the early 90s. So which O-line do you mean? There is no "that O-line".

91
LT Mark Tuinei
LG Kevin Gogan
C Mark Stepnoski
RG John Gesek
RT Nate Newton

92
LT Mark Tuinei
LG Nate Newton*
C Mark Stepnoski*
RG John Gesek
RT Erik Williams

93
LT Mark Tuinei
LG Nate Newton*
C Mark Stepnoski* Frank Cornish John Gesek
RG Kevin Gogan
RT Erik Williams*+

94
LT Mark Tuinei*
LG Nate Newton*+
C Mark Stepnoski*
RG Derek Kennard
RT Larry Allen

95
LT Mark Tuinei*
LG Nate Newton*+
C Ray Donaldson*
RG Larry Allen*
RT Erik Williams

So there are only two constants on the various O-lines.Tuinei and Newton. Two free agents who had been there for years with no acclaim before Emmitt showed up.

Secondly, not one of those players were ever called "great" before they played with Emmitt Smith.

Mark Tuinei-free agent 1983. Started out as a defensive lineman and was moved to the offensive line. He finally became a starter in '87. No Pro Bowl until long after Emmitt got there. Just an average lineman at best.

Nate Newton-free agent 1983 by Redskins. Cut during training camp. Played in the USFL for two years until they folded. Signed as a free agent by the Cowboys in '86. Became a starter in '87. What is usually called a journeyman. He was popular with fans for being a funny fat guy before Emmitt got there. (He gave great interviews) He, like the rest of them, waited until after Emmitt got there to make a Pro Bowl.

Kevin Gogan-8th round in '87. He at least became a starter as a rookie when guy playing ahead of him retired. Lost his starting spot a couple of times over the years. Like Tuinei and Newton, he played without any praise until after Emmitt got there. Another coincidence.

John Gesek-10th round pick the the Raiders in '87. Managed to start a few games before the Raiders dumped him in a trade to the Cowboys. Lost his starting spot in Dallas and was moved to center when Mark Stepnoski got hurt in '93. Was so awesome the Cowboys let him walk in free agency in '94.

These guys would all be undrafted today since there are only 7 rounds.

Then you've got guys like 3rd rounder Stepnoski who was a legit Pro Bowler. And 3rd rounder Eric Williams who was also pretty good for a couple of years until he had a car wreck. Neither one is ever going to be a Hall of Famer though. Throw in the Kennards and Cornishs.

The best of them all was Larry Allen.who didn't get there until Emmitt had already had his most legendary seasons and the team had won 2 Super Bowls. He showed up in '94 and wasn't even part of the "great wall" myth.

So the myth claims that the Cowboys somehow plugged in new players on that line over and over and they were all "great" by an amazing coincidence during Emmitt's prime. BUTwhen Emmitt got older the Cowboys suddenly lost that amazing ability and could no longer find "great linemen" for years and years until they finally gave up in recent years and started drafting O-linemen in the 1st round every year. That's how bad they were. What an amazing coincidence that the Cowboys were perfect at finding linemen when Emmitt was in his prime and pathetic when he wasn't.

If that line was so great that "anyone could run behind them"why aren't they in the Hall of Fame? Because they weren't great, that's why.

NoEmmitt made that line look greatnot the other way around. Not just the line either.any time Emmitt missed a game, the Cowboys lost. And once Emmitt got older and couldn't carry the team, Aikman was exposed. Once defenses didn't have to sell out to stop Emmitt, Troy was pedestrian. And QBs last longer the RBs. Cowboys haters are going after the wrong player from that teamAikman was the one who was overrated. Aikman needs to thank Emmitt every day for getting him into the HoF.

There have been a ton of great O-lines in NFL historybut that doesn't mean you break the all time rushing record. This is what is known as an excuse. Sports fans look for excuses to avoid giving praise to teams/players they root against. With the Patriots it's Deflategate. With Emmitt Smith it's "the greatest O-line ever".

Notice no one ever brings up things like that with Jim Brown? He had THREE Hall of Fame O-linemen to run behind. That's because there are no Browns hatersfans didn't mind giving Jim Brown credit.

The best example of the bias is Jerry Rice thoughgood lord. Quite a double standard. He had the best situation for a wide receiver I can imagine. Way better than Smith had it. Yet his accomplishments are never diminished for this. He actually joined the defending Super Bowl champs while Smith joined a 1-15 team. (Yeahthat line was awesome on that 1-15 team)

Can it get any better for a receiver than joining a championship team with Montana as your QB (later Steve Young)running a revolutionary passing offense that the league didn't know how to stopin a weak division? (Emmitt had to play against some of the best defenses in the best division in football) Rice was a great player of coursebut isn't it fair to say any number of great receivers would have put up incredible numbers in that situation?

I mean, if this is going to be the tactic with Smith, then Rice can never be praised as "the greatest receiver ever".much less "greatest player ever". But fans don't need and excuse to avoid praising Rice, do they?

I agree and I have a hatred of the Cowboys that many would call unhealthy. Smith was a monster and carried that team a lot of years. He is still one of my favorite running backs ever.

GO SIXERS!!!
Phillies
Fly Eagles Fly

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I agree and I have a hatred of the Cowboys that many would call unhealthy. Smith was a monster and carried that team a lot of years. He is still one of my favorite running backs ever.

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Those games were fun to watch in the early 90s. Those two teams hated each other. That Eagles defense was scary.