Documentary : Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Especially movies and music?

Personally, I think the last 40 years have been dead (I'm not that old, so no, its not nostalgia for me - just talent).. I don't know if the YouTube link is any good, but it seems to be along the lines of what I'm talking about (after watching the preview)….. Growing up, I do remember Debbie Gibson being the biggest thing, selling millions of records, being everywhere. What does a 15-yr old have to say? Did she inspire you to do anything?

I think a lot of it has to do with visuals, especially music. Apps doing the work, auto-tune (don't even need to sign in key!), "drum machines" (oxymoron), and other programs that sells one thing (dancing) and using some program like ProTools to sanitize and "fix" the product.

There was a time people had nothing but a radio, and so there was less discrimination. And this is before the 1st MTV video "Video Killed the Radio Star". You devoted all your attention to the music, instead of the face, tits, ass, clothes (lack of clothes), name, race, gender, orientation, etc etc.. Once upon a time in the movie industry, the "dinosaurs" actually LOVED movies, and would take chances. Some lost MILLIONS of dollars with just one movie. Now, you have "people" who are nothing but those who want to turn a profit and don't care what it is. CGI in movies is another example. A non-stop shoot-out, showing guts all over the screen, disguised as being free (when its exploitative). Car chases.. Movies that start with the protagonist having to face 100 ninjas, knowing they won't kill out the star in the first minute of the movie, so you have to sit and be bored while waiting for the time to die, which is horrible. Time shouldn't be killed - its one thing you can't buy.

Or having the freedom to show nudity, akin to being masturbated in a movie theater in the dark. Yeah, you might like it, but not if you are aware of whose doing the jerking.

Then you have the "social" media shit. They are not only billionaires, but the product is YOU, and it has a lot of influence. Twitter finds way to bump up certain hash-tags and hide popular stuff if it doesn't fit the agenda. One person with 50 million followers can say how great an awful movie is, and people will usually follow. It seems like the only movies that get attention are those that get all their attention talking about everything EXCEPT the movie itself. Some tweet, twat, post. Someone does something ridiculous, gets the attention, and then "sells" the movie. I notice they never talk about the merits of the film. It's always, "First Tranny Director" or some other superficial nonsense. And judging by ratings by "professionals", most seem to sustain from criticizing in fear of being socially ostracized, or being called a ____ist. I actually think political correctness is the ultimate prejudice - having a couple of elites telling EVERYONE else what they can or cannot handle.

It's sad, because 20 years ago, I thought with the internet accessibility and cheap cameras, that there might be saturation, but there would be REAL diversity (thought, not things you had no control over, like skin pigment)… Someone can make the greatest movie and upload it on YouTube tomorrow. But I don't see it. This isn't to criticize, but its a plea for something better. I would love to find an artist whose work I can look forward to seeing. New movie, album, concert (at their peak). Maybe you can create something great and share it with the world? If not, maybe you can introduce people to great things that might have gone under the radar?

When I did use social media, I would post something like this, only to receive PRIVATE messages saying "You know, I agree with you, but I don't wanna rock the boat". You have so many ratings show up for anything you type up, including dead people like RogerEbert who can't possibly rate a movie after death, but it has a lot of muscle with influence. I've mentioned this before, and many would say "Well, its the website", but that's not the point..



https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

You must be Kim Jung Un

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

I am a fan of older music, but it's ridiculous to believe that talent has magically dissipated solely because modern tastes don't match your own. There are still plenty of people out there who can sing, dance, and play an instrument – just look at Lindsey Stirling.

Talent hasn't disappeared, it's just been lost in a flood of self-production. In the olden days, books, movies, and music were heavily vetted, and artists only became popular if they were good. Nowadays, thanks to the Internet, everyone can publish a book, record a song, or film a movie, whether or not they've even an ounce of natural or learned ability. It's not that the good stuff has vanished, it's that the market is now inundated with mediocrity.

If you're willing to look, you'll find the same veins of talent that have always been around. You may have to expand your horizons a bit, as we are no longer living in the 70s and tastes of every variety have decidedly shifted, but you certainly won't be disappointed.

As for the film industry, there have been several worthy smash-hits recently. It's not all mindless Marvel fluff. 1917, for example, beats old war movies thoroughly into the dirt.

Then the renewed earth would reclaim city and town, leaving only Ghost Dancers and those who lived by nature’s laws.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Of course it hasn't disappeared, hence my pleas. I'm just saying, those with the most talent are being overlooked because of superficial reasons, and I'd love for people to be conscious about this.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Blah blah blah muh name is MortSahlFan and I'm an old bitter virgin

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Just do the comparisons.. 1939-1979 vs. 1980-2020. (I'll add movies just for the heck of it.. I won't even mention literature, etc)

(I'll just mention those who were around in the 60/70s, since it would be too unfair)…. The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Pink Floyd, Elvis Presley, Wilson Pickett, Supertramp, The Doors, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Steely Dan, ELO, America, Eagles, David Bowie, , Fleetwood Mac, Black Sabbath, Neil Young, Bob Marley, The Stylistics, Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Love, The Allman Brothers, The Kinks, Elton John, Billy Joel, The Beach Boys, The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, CSNY, Three Dog Night, The Hollies, The Grateful Dead, The Velvet Underground, Ray Charles, The Animals, Deep Purple, The Stooges, Aretha Franklin, The Zombies, Simon & Garfunkel, Steppenwolf, The Moody Blues, The Dave Clark Five, The Temptations, Santana, James Brown, Janis Joplin & Big Brother Holding Company, Sam Cooke, The Mamas and the Papas, Frank Zappa, The Supremes, The Everly Brothers, Sly and the Family Stone, John Mayall & The Bluesbreakers, Four Tops, The Band, CCR, John Coltrane, Captain Beefheart, Wayne Shorter, Roy Orbison, Them, Nina Simone, Yardbirds, Charles Mingus, etc etc

The Godfather, Citizen Kane, La Strada, Nashville, They Shoot Horses, Don't They?, Network, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Battle of Algiers, Treasure of the Sierra Madre, A Woman Under The Influence, The Seventh Seal, Rashomon, On The Waterfront, A Clockwork Orange, Casablanca, The Misfits, La Grande Illusion, McCabe And Mrs. Miller, The Seventh Seal, Ace In The Hole, The Bridge on the River Kwai, The Best Years of Our Lives, The Sound of Music, Midnight Cowboy, A Child Is Waiting, Harold and Maude, 12 Angry Men, Annie Hall, Ikiru, Mikey and Nicky, Lawrence of Arabia, Last Tango In Paris, Taxi Driver, Dr. Strangelove, Sunset Boulevard, Gone With The Wind, Bonnie and Clyde, Shane, North by Northwest, Sullivan's Travels, The Philadelphia Story, Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, Rocky, The Deer Hunter, To Kill A Mockingbird, Vertigo, The Wizard of Oz, 2001: A Space Odyssey, All About Eve, The Graduate, Chinatown, Some Like It Hot, Double Indemnity, Apocalypse Now, Rear Window, West Side Story, Cabaret, The African Queen, All The President's Men, Who's Afraid Of Virginia Woolf?, Butch Cassiday and the Sundance Kid, The Wild Bunch, The Apartment, Spartacus, The French Connection, Ben-Hur, Yankee Doodle Dandy, etc…

My wrists are cramping up, so I'll stop it there after I've made my point…. And that was the POPULAR stuff!

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

You're calling it "degeneracy" which has a negative connotation. In art the term is usually "decadence". After a culture reaches it's peak, it begins to decay but even in that decadence there is still much brilliant art and culture.

Uh, look man. Make tool! Caveman. No fool!
I GameBoy - H. superior

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

I meant to give a negative connotation. After a while, it sounds like pandering when people reach so far to mention something new. We each only have so much time, and I'll go with the probability. I'm not gonna keep watching bullshit so strangers online know I'm open-minded.

It reminds me of the political conversation now. If a true progressive gives a critique of Biden, they usually preface with "Now let me be clear, I hate Trump, but" (and most don't even do that).

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

During it's peak a culture will emphasize the positive. It promotes the classics in art. It ignores the negative and the sordid underbelly of the culture. During decadence the negative is explored. If you want to appraise a culture you need to step back and view it objectively.

For example. "A Clockwork Orange" is a great movie. But it's certainly decadent.

Uh, look man. Make tool! Caveman. No fool!
I GameBoy - H. superior

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Speaking of "A Clockwork Orange", the critics were just going along the bandwagon, talking about the violence, sex… To this day, even from fans, I don't hear people talk about influence, behavior, karma, delinquency, existence, as well as juggling all that with competing forces - government, religion, media, big business, health care, etc.

And then if you're a critic who is on the bottom of the totem pole, they might say the truth (even if they don't believe it) to get attention

(ala Tulsi Gabbard 2015-present)

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Google Roger Scruton. He was a leading light in aesthetics and he always had plenty to say about the demise of beauty.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Wow. I posted this on another site, and someone posted a video by him. Thanks, I will read more about him. The video I saw was mostly about beauty.

I'm actually not traditional/conservative at all. But even those terms have been subverted usually for their own reasons (defending one or attacking one by association)

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Conservatives want to conserve.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

I just wanna find the best stuff, and then spread it through word of mouth and message boards.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Whatever. That's not what this thread is about.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

I created the thread.. It can go wherever it wants to go.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

I didn't say it couldn't. There's no predicting where insanity can lead a conversation.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Probably because you asked one thing in your OP then went off on tangents the moment anybody engaged you.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Ok - go watch the documentary, and then let's talk.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

I recommended Scruton to you, my friend. You do the watching.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Which one? What did you think? Did you agree with his views on why people no longer value beauty?

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

"Why Beauty Matters", but I didn't finish it.

I just wanna know what his favorite movies are.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Then perhaps you should have asked a different question in the OP.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Interesting that Scruton's face looked like vomit. So he started out from childhood with a hatred towards beauty.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

If you don't want to embarrass yourself further I recommend you explore Roger Scruton's ideas on aesthetics. They're very interesting and insightful, but that will require a little more effort than typing his name into Google and looking at his picture.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Silly little girl. I said he "Started" out that way. Never said he took that into adulthood.
I think the fat in your chubby neck has gone to your brain.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

I see you've realized your mistake now. Well done.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

What I realized was that you are heavily lacking in reading comprehension. You did it in this thread and in Donna's. So you have a very remedial education.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

If you don't want to embarrass yourself further I recommend you explore Roger Scruton's ideas on aesthetics. They're very interesting and insightful. . .

Interesting that I took two courses on the philosophy of art in college by two different professors and neither of them thought highly enough of this guy to assign so much as one paper or book excerpt by him. (I'm a philosophy major and issues surrounding art were a side interest for me at that time.)

Given that he was a right wing religious homophobic bigot, I strongly suspect that whatever insights he may have had on aesthetics are going to only appeal to folks on ideological grounds rather than because they are philosophically sound, but obviously I could be wrong.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Spot on. Its clear that morris has the same opinions of homophobia and hatred of others as his mentor scrotum ahem Scruton.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Given that he was a right wing religious homophobic bigot
Well, there you go. That's the reason you were never taught him. He doesn't fit into the liberal agenda. The education system doesn't teach you how to think anymore, like it's supposed to, it teaches you what to think. It's the greatest crime of modern times.

If you can find any evidence of any of those slights against his character you just listed, you're welcome to share them here.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

That's the reason you were never taught him. He doesn't fit into the liberal agenda.

What is far more likely is that he doesn't fit into the agenda of serious philosophers of art and is only of use to conservative ideologues.

Political ideas were not even touched on by either professor I had on the subject. They were far more concerned with analytical issues–what counts as art, to what degree does an artist's intention matter, how objective are rival interpretations of a work of art, that kind of thing.

Not a single philosopher injected their political or religious views into the papers and excerpts we were assigned. Perhaps if your hero could have shown similar restraint he would be better regarded outside of right wing cliques.

If you can find any evidence of any of those slights against his character you just listed, you're welcome to share them here,

If you seriously don't know the guy was a homophobe you obviously are pretty ignorant of his views, just pretending to be real, real stupid, and/or are an anti-gay bigot yourself. I'll let you choose.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Why don't you read/watch/listen to his views instead of letting hysterical, biased liberal media/faculty tell you what to think?

Not agreeing with gay marriage doesn't make you homophobic. Ask Gameboy.

Also, it's all very liberal to let one area of disagreement with somebody stop you from agreeing with them on other matters. Liberals are wonderfully ironic.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Why don't you read/watch/listen to his views instead of letting hysterical, biased liberal media/faculty tell you what to think?

I'm perfectly able to think for myself, and having encountered this guy's views, I have concluded he was an ideological blowhard. Religion does that to people who would otherwise be smart. I am only interested in sober analytical philosophy and not garbage that is driven by religion and politics, which were both at the heart of everything he wrote.

Also, it is very safe for me to conclude that his contribution to the philosophy of art was minimal at best and unworthy of my time, precisely because two very different professors who I trust and admired didn't consider him worthy of teaching. They were experts on the subject, after all.

Oh–and it is people like you who come off as hysterical, not the media, and not my professors.

Not agreeing with gay marriage doesn't make you homophobic. Ask Gameboy.

Gameboy has proven himself to be a first class idiot on every subject I've seen him write about, and your deluded hero's homophobia goes beyond just opposing gay marriage. If you think gay sex is a sin, you are a mindless fuckwad bigot, end of story.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

I'm perfectly able to think for myself

Also, it is very safe for me to conclude that his contribution to the philosophy of art was minimal at best and unworthy of my time, precisely because two very different professors who I trust and admired didn't consider him worthy of teaching. They were experts on the subject, after all.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Yes, you modern right wingers are definitely adverse to expertise on any subject.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

You haven't even read him and you're saying he's wrong.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

You haven't even read him and you're saying he's wrong.

At no point have I declared that he is wrong on whatever cute little theory of aesthetics his deluded mind came up with. What I have done is make an educated GAMBLE.

1. Two professors who were well informed on philosophy of arts, a very small field within philosophy, did not think his contributions to the subject merited discussion.

Both of these professors were opened minded enough to routinely teach people I know they disagreed with, they did this constantly in every class and fairly, so this omission is overwhelmingly likely to be about the quality of his thought and nothing else.

2. He swallowed the superstitions and mindless prejudices of Christianity instead of thinking intelligently about them and rejecting them as the vast majority of his peers have done.

I can conclude from this fact that his critical thinking skills must have been quite lame and most likely carried over to his thinking about aesthetics, which were likely also polluted by his silly religion and politics.

3. He seems obsessed with the idea of beauty in the arts, and that is literally the least interesting aspect of the arts that I can possibly think of, the most superficial approach one could have.

None of this justifies certainty that his theories of aesthetics were wrong. What is justified however, is the conclusion that they are overwhelmingly unlikely to be insightful and therefor my time is best spent reading philosophers who have a track record I can trust. Odds are that I'll get much more out of re-reading Brentano than starting fresh with Scruton.

It is entirely possible that I am missing out on some really great material by this Scruton fellow. But the evidence strongly suggests my gamble is a wise one.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

The word "beauty" can be perceived in so many ways… For me, a great movie needs a great script and acting. Themes are interesting, but I've seen great movies with one setting, two characters just talking.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Yes, but to ascribe "beauty" to such a thing stretches the meaning of the term to the point where it doesn't mean anything at all. And from brief glances at what Scruton says, that isn't what he's getting at.

What you describe is far, far more compelling for me than anything the word "beauty" would normally refer to.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

A very honest TL:DR.

On typing the above I caught the last paragraph though, which is hilarious.

Enjoy your willful ignorance, my brain washed friend.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

A very honest TL:DR.

Then you either didn't read what I wrote or are too stupid to have understood the train of logic that I spelled out for you explaining why Scruton was undeserving of my attention. Take your pick.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

I've treated you the way you treat Scruton.

Enjoy the irony, my ignorant friend.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

do you like him just because he's a right-winger?

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

I didn't know him, so I have no idea if I liked him or not. Which is my point; you don't need to agree with somebody on everything to find their theories or their art interesting.

The OP asked for pointers to documentaries or interviews with people who've commented on degeneracy in the arts. Having read some of Scruton's work I recommended him.

I don't agree with everything he says, but he makes some great points, mostly about our celebration of ugliness, which leads to poor quality art.

Re: Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts?

What are some things you disagree with him on?
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