Film History and Meaning : Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

I'm real interested in hearing your suggestions.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Do you mean films that reflected the times they were made in? If so, I'd submit this one. I think Nashville, the movie from 1975 reflected the times in 1975.
Maybe today too. Times really haven't changed…






You asked a pretty question; I've given you the ugly answer.
Fasten Your Seatbelts….
It's Going To Be A Bumpy Night!

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

EXACTLY what I was looking for.. This is my #3 favorite all-time, and I think it represents America very well. I could write a book on this movie!

It deals a lot with how the country was overthrown with JFK.. Notice the "Queen of Nashville" is so cynical, "Except the Kennedy boys, but they were different" - notice she doesn't care about anything else, and I think many became cynical instead of being hopeful, thus considering morals outdated, and having people like Shelley Duvall. The young man can't take it anymore (notice he's also the only nice guy in the movie) and basically wants to "shoot celebrityism"

"They can't do this to us. This isn't Dallas" - again, selfish. If it doesn't touch my town, I'm going to sleep.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Yes! All true! Love this movie! I have seen this one countless times and I never tire of it. Each time, I pick up something new that I hadn't noticed or thought of. Each time it stays with me for days after.

You asked a pretty question; I've given you the ugly answer.
Fasten Your Seatbelts….
It's Going To Be A Bumpy Night!

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Same! And usually 3 hour movies aren't as enticing, but I've seen it at least 5 times in the last 5 years. And its very easy to pick up something new with Altman, since he has a lot of things going on (Cassavetes, too, who was his next-door neighbor!).

I'm always amazed by the scene when Carradine sings "I'm Easy".. EVERY woman featured thinks its about her. There's even this old woman (extra) who seems to observe and know whats going on (I love little things like that, a non-character who has a small part, a glance, something)…. Of course, the one he's referring to isn't smiling and looking around for approval. No, its Lily Tomlin, and she doesn't say a word. Its so chilling to watch her in a daze.

Did you like McCabe and Mrs. Miller? I feel that's a very American microcosmic film that could describe modern day, but also the days of conquering a new frontier.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

I love Altman's films of the 70s Thieves Like Us is a remake of an old film with Farly Granger and Kathy… Something. I can't think of it! I like Altman's version better, with Carradine and Shelly Duvall.
The I'm Easy scene in Nashville , you mention, is a classic. Everyone just loves that. I know that I get a kick out of it every time I watch the movie.
I enjoy watching Jeff Goldblum. His part is small, but he's so memorable. I love that little magic bit in the cafe.
I loved Barbara Harris too. All through the movie, you wonder what is up with her, and what is going to happen. Such a surprise when she lets loose and belts out It Don't Worry Me.

Yes. I did see McCabe and Mrs. Miller. Just once. I liked it, but I confess that I didn't think of it in the way you did. I was on a date at the time, so I guess I wasn't thinking much at all.

You asked a pretty question; I've given you the ugly answer.
Fasten Your Seatbelts….
It's Going To Be A Bumpy Night!

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Barbara Harris is another important character. She's married to some old abusive jackass. And throughout the entire movie, she is snubbed. Even Kenny, the nicest kid (until he can't take the society anymore) says she doesn't know about cars, but after Barbara talks and shows she does, then he throws the "But no guy will take you seriously" which is true. But who gets an opportunity? Someone with no talent ("Can't get enough, can't get enough") simply because an owner of a bar on the telephone makes eye contact and tries to be a successful middle-man. Barbara Harris is snubbed when she's singing at a race car match! Nobody can hear her. No one notices her. Of course when "all has gone to hell" Henry Gibson is rebuffed, trying to find ANYONE who'll save the day, and of course, the best singer does.

And Barbara Harris is worked to death by her husband/pimp, another typical character (lacking character) that exemplifies a percentage of the population. And you can say that about every character. Jeff Goldblum is like "the observer"

How talent is about who you know, current political and social trends, etc.. It seems like talent is the last thing on the checklist. Breast size is much more important, "Don't worry, we have an app to auto-tune your voice. Auto-drums, auto-bullshit,"

Its also honest to show TWO Vietnam vets. One goes crazy, but the other one gets him. The end of innocence for America.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Maybe Reality Bites and Easy Rider, but I think they probably only spoke for a very small segment of the population that was given outsized importance by the media.

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Those are good choices though. Easy Rider, The Trip… They spoke of the drug culture in the 60s.

You asked a pretty question; I've given you the ugly answer.
Fasten Your Seatbelts….
It's Going To Be A Bumpy Night!

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Thanks for the reminder.. I haven't seen "The Trip" (a few thought I wouldn't like it), but at this point, I'm running out of movies anyway :)

It doesn't only show the drug culture, does it? Because that wasn't the ENTIRE culture. And I hope the non-drug users aren't all portrayed as dorks. I like multi-dimension and sincerity, instead of binary.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

I was just thinking. The soundtrack from Easy Rider alone, is a reflection of those times. All that great music!

You asked a pretty question; I've given you the ugly answer.
Fasten Your Seatbelts….
It's Going To Be A Bumpy Night!

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Definitely Easy Rider. That show actually addressed a lot of issues, and not just the drug culture (I think that was more of an adjunct and a thread, rather than "the" entire topic). It definitely spoke to the generation of the time.

The soundtrack was very effective.

I wonder if a lot of the "war movies" (I need to think about this) also reflected the period.

"Life is tough. Get a helmet." – Candace Owens
"Not today, Satan!" – Blaire White

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

I think that Robert Altman's MASH reflected the period. It was set in the Korean War, but it was made during the Vietnam War, and it reflected the attitudes on that very well

You asked a pretty question; I've given you the ugly answer.
Fasten Your Seatbelts….
It's Going To Be A Bumpy Night!

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

The Last Picture Show. It's amazing.

The Last Picture Show

One of the best American films, period, and certainly one of the best of the 70s. Great writing, performances, and direction by the Peter Bogdanovich. The evocation of that small town is perfect. It helped that they shot a lot of it in the small Texas town where Larry McMurtry, who wrote the novel and screenplay, grew up and still lives today.

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

for those movies in the 60s and early 70s, were there mentions of Vietnam?

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Head referenced Vietnam briefly. The TV show Route 66 had a character who was a Vietnam veteran back in 1963.

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Oh ok, I never saw that one, but know its a Nicholson-written thing with the Corman sub-group. I'll watch that eventually. Cheers!

I never saw the TV show, but how was the character portrayed in deference to Vietnam?

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

He was initially moody and violent and kind of messed up but he lightened up as his identity as a veteran became less important for the show. That is my impression anyway. He was a replacement character and I have not seen all of his episodes.

The Viet Nam War + Petulia

Richard Lester's Petulia (1968) reflects the war very well with protests on the radio, tv, and, if I remember correctly even a scene or two. It takes place in San Francisco, a hotbed of protests about the war, so that was understandable and appropriate. But it was also quite effective. And it was the first feature film that to my knowledge was non-linear - certainly in America anyway. It was not written that way, but was edited that way, and it's quite effective unlike so many non-linear films today; it even has a flash forward. Highly recommend it, if you haven't seen it. I always believed that Shirley Knight deserved a best supporting actress Oscar for her heartbreaking role in it.

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

The breakfast club?

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

I second that one.

Yes, this is really me.

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

It felt right…but man all of a sudden the eighties get no respect.

I mean… Am I a fool to consider John Hughes the only voice of my generation
That still resonates with me to this day?

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

I went to high school with people just like the kids in The Breakfast Club. Same deal with Heathers, which nails with bitterly accurate precision the pecking order that separates the haves from the have nots (i.e., the cool kids from the uncool kids) that existed in high schools at the time. I know this latter fact all too well because I was there and I went through it.

Yes, this is really me.

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

You and Mr both buddy 👍
When did you graduate?
Midwest?

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

I graduated in the early 1990's on the East Coast in New Jersey.

Yes, this is really me.

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

'89 myself… Ohio…don't hold it against me😂

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Also, at least the Criterion Collection put out a great extras-loaded release of The Breakfast Club on both DVD and Blu-ray, so that film has been properly recognized as an important landmark movie by a major company.

Yes, this is really me.

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

I liked the movie, have it on VHS. Haven't seen it in a long time and wonder if I'd still like it with my movie-persona in 2019.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Fast Times At Ridgemont High! That is as 80s as one can get.

You asked a pretty question; I've given you the ugly answer.
Fasten Your Seatbelts….
It's Going To Be A Bumpy Night!

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

The Breakfast Club. I went to high school in the 1980's and teens back then were actually broken up into thier own little cliques. Moreover, I love the film's central message that a person is a whole lot more than a simple and single one-word label that other folks ascribe to them.
Heathers is another film that astutely nails with hilariously harsh precision the pecking order that existed in high schools back in the 1980's. Since I was a nerdy outcast who got mercilessly mocked by the "cool" kids, I was cheering whenever a mean cool kid was on the receiving end of a fitting brutal comeuppance.

Yes, this is really me.

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Falling Down. Astutely nails the frustration of an angry white guy who's become increasingly bitter about the rapid-fire changes in an ever-shifting culture that he feels has relegated him to the margins.

Yes, this is really me.

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

great movie.. Kinda like the "Taxi Driver" of the 90s

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Brian De Palma's version of Scarface totally pegs the sense of outrageous excess that defined the 1980's.

Yes, this is really me.

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Yeah, its too bad not many people have seen or even heard of the one starring Paul Muni.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

I've seen the original with Paul Muni and it's a splendid film.

Yes, this is really me.

Re: Movies That Spoke For Their Time?

Speaking of Paul Muni and remakes, I also prefer the original "I'm A Fugitive From A Texas Chain Gang".. Of course in high school Criminology, they played the re-make, thus never giving young people a chance to experience something that isn't "modern"

I can't think of an instance where I preferred the re-make.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang

What a terrific film from the 1930s. There are so many from that era that speak to that time.



Another I like very much that is different but in some ways thematically similar is You Only Live Once (1936), starring Henry Fonda and Sylvia Sidney and directed by Fritz Lang.

I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang

I think I'll check it out. Did you see any of Fritz Lang's movies made in Germany? "M" might be the best thriller I ever saw. I saw one noir made in the US, and he seemed to lose his vision, and just made a noir like every other one in the 40s

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang

Yes, I saw several, including M, which I agree is a wonderful thriller with a brilliant performance by Peter Lorre (wow). I've also seen Metropolis (1927), one of the most brilliant films ever made, setting the standard for so many like it that came after. I also saw The Testament of Dr. Mabuse (1933), which I think is excellent but not as good as M.

I don't know what American noir you saw, and I'd have to agree that a lot of his films in the States were not as powerful as his German films, but that happens so often with foreign directors who come to Hollywood, and I think it has more to do with Hollywood than the directors.

But of his American noirs, I'm a fan of Fury (1936), Man Hunt (1941), Hangmen Also Die! (1943), Ministry of Fear (1944), and The Big Heat (1953).

I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang

I felt the same about Dr. Mabuse (that voice trick was pretty cool)..

"Clash By Night" is the only American movie I've seen of his.. It was pretty good, but nothing comparable to his German movies.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Clash By Night

Yes, that's not really his kind of film, particularly in terms of style. It's a narrative, that wouldn't allow him to use his noir style effectively. You might like the others I recommended more. Thematically and stylistically they are clearly more tied to his German roots.

Clash By Night

I think it was his move to the US, maybe thinking he'd have to assimilate?

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Clash By Night

No, honestly, I think it's more just the difference in the material in Hollywood vs. Germany, especially during his time there. The same happens with so many foreign directors who come here. Some are able to thrive, because they actually change the way films are made and set the template in some cases, but so many are the victims of the material they are given to direct - unless they are also writers, like Billy Wilder, for example.

It happens even today. I love the Australian/New Zealand directors Niki Caro, Jane Campion, Peter Weir, and Gillian Armstrong, for example, but in almost every case I prefer their native land films to their American ones. It's because Hollywood's so often weaker and less personal material makes it so hard for them to stand out in the end. Anyway, that's what I think happened to Lang over time, though the films I suggested earlier are much more like what you'll see in his German films - though even those stories are not as good.

Now. Did some come and succeed who weren't writers? Yes, including Lang at first, I think. And directors like Robert Siodmak (although eventually he returned to Germany), Ernst Lubitsch, Fred Zinneman, and Alfred Hitchcock, to name a few. They managed to thrive, because their talents were aligned with genres that worked for them and/or they were just so talented and so strong in their convictions about what they would and wouldn't do that they were able to carve out a place for themselves and make the films that mattered to them, which was reflected on the screen (not that there weren't failures now and again, but that's to be expected).

That's my two cents, for what it's worth. 😊

Clash By Night

I think it would be easier moving from an English speaking country to another. Gillian Armstrong rang a bell, I saw a couple of movies from her. I really liked the female lead in "My Brilliant Career" - had a certain feminine wise-ass quality. "The Last Days of the Chez Nouz" was pretty good, too.

Milestone is the only one (I think) I haven't seen. It's nice to compare the before/after.

Hell, my favorite director is Vittorio De Sica, and the movie he made in the US stunk!

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Immigrant directors

Yes, coming from England certainly would be easier.

And about Milestone: I knew that he was born in and immigrated from Russia. I also thought he made films there, but he didn't begin directing until he came to America, so he doesn't apply to my premise and I deleted him from that post.

And I, too, hated De Sica's American film, The Indiscretion of an American Wife, which I'm sure was bad because of studio interference. It's a shame he didn't get to make the film he probably wanted to make, given that its credited writers were Italian (though I'm sure their script was mutilated by Truman Capote and Ben Hecht - two outstanding writers, but not for that project).

But that was and in most cases still is Hollywood.

EDIT: @MortSahlFan

My Brilliant Career is one of my favorites (I also really loved Armstrong's 1994 American version of Little Women, which I think is the definitive adaptation of that novel.) As for Judy Davis, the star of My Brilliant Career, she went on to much success in America and received Oscar nominations for her roles in Passage to India and Husbands and Wives. Actors seem to do much better emigrating to America than filmmakers do.

Immigrant directors

Actors do seem to do much better. The US always likes someone with an English accent (or an Aussie one) for certain roles. And in any type of movie. The foreign intrigue. One from America is always conscious of it. Could be a horror movie, or a drama involving a woman introducing her family to a guy with this accent, it's almost like an extra tool, another layer to a character.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

More about Lewis Milestone

About Lewis Milestone: I highly recommend these two films at the very least: All Quiet on the Western Front (1930) - a masterpiece, in my opinion and one I think you would really appreciate (it also spoke for its time about World War I from the German soldier standpoint); and Of Mice and Men (1939), not a masterpiece but an excellent adaptation of the Steinbeck novel with Lon Chaney Jr. as the slow-witted Lennie and Burgess Meredith as his friend George.

More about Lewis Milestone

I saw the re-make "Of Mice and Men" at school. I guess there would have been a riot had it been in b&w.

I've been meaning to see "All Quiet on the Western Front" for many years, but I'm always running out of space, and I always delete the most popular ones, knowing I can easily find it online in the future.

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List
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