Westworld : The MIB is not William

The MIB mystery: William is not the MIB. Re-listen to the MIB's speech to the injured Dolores. MIB: "William didn't know how to fight, he didn't have an instinct for it ." There is no indication at any time that the MIB speaks of himself in the third person and there was no reason for him to do it here. The MIB is not William.

At 2:07 here:

Nice try. Ford calls the MIB William when he meets him in the cemetery outside the curch

It's very clear in the last episode when William speaks to Dolores. Also why she's happy to see Teddy when she was just waiting for William to show up.

did the cut with william putting on the hat and becoming the man in black not show it for you? or when dolores said his name? or that william found the glovesthe vestthe hatwearing all the MIB's black accessories when he meets dolores again? or ford calling him william?

he even says "i want to thank you dolores for making me who i am." etc.

i just think its grasping to deny he's william. like how people were denying jon snow was lyanna's baby despite all the obvious give-aways.

'There's just a possibility that I will kiss a doorknob.'
Just call me Sleight

How do you explain the quote where the MIB talks about William?

Theatrical slight of hand. He's just talking in the 3rd person. As others have said he's called William by Ford.







Yous won't leave. Now yous can't leave!

You need to play closer attention

That would be torture.

So if the MiB is William then the MiB is *not* an android but a human guest ?

Good question considering the writers have already shown a robot can pass for human and be a leader in his field and sleep with a colleague and not be found out. Anyone can be a host, and not know they are a host, and pass for human fooling all humans, that's the conceit of the show and it's a cheat. Even the absurd "bomb in the spinal cord" can easily be overridden, therefore is irrelevant as a device to keep the hosts from the real world. A world, by the way, they have never shown in any context.

they pretty much flat out tell the whole story of him becoming Wiliam.
He is suprised Dolores even remembers so when she talks about Wiliam he tells her the story in the third person, making her (and by that us as viewers) slowly understand that he is Wiliam. A common cinematic technique.

You watched the show right?
William and Logan are guests, they came to the park in the early days.
William later sent Logan off on a horse, but William also came back to the park many times, eventually owning shares in the Westworld company, making him somewhat of a V.I.P.

It will be highly unlikely that a robot owns shares in the company, unless it is all a narrative too, but that would be very contrived and purposeless.

I skip reading the bottom line, because it is usually some lame signature.

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You watched the show right?
William and Logan are guests, they came to the park in the early days.
William later sent Logan off on a horse, but William also came back to the park many times, eventually owning shares in the Westworld company, making him somewhat of a V.I.P.

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That's what the show writers want you to believe.

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It will be highly unlikely that a robot owns shares in the company, unless it is all a narrative too, but that would be very contrived and purposeless.

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Was it also highly unlikely that Fords number one man, who was one of the heads of the park facility and had full power and authority over all the hosts, and who was sleeping with one of the parks principles, was also a robot and didn't know he was?

The threads keep getting dumber

It's gonna be a long wait till 2018

http://violentdelights.freeforums.net/ - W E S T W O R L D Community

lol @ this theory

It's not a theory. But it is funny.

I will give you credit for tenacity but that is it.

As others have already pointed out the MiB is clearly William. That you refuse to see it says more about you than about the show or anyone else.





"I care about the law. It's justice I don't give a toss about." Cleaver Greene

Okay, let's say the MIB is William. Is it possible he was William, but then was killed and replaced with a robot, a robot that thinks and acts like he is human, just like Bernard. So is the MIB robot still William? I think not.

This could still be possible though.
As much as i like to think that MIB is the real William, the writers might still decide to twist it.

I skip reading the bottom line, because it is usually some lame signature.

I hated the the MIN turned out to be William because the actors look nothing alike. It ruined the ending a bit.

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the actors look nothing alike

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That's also a tell that they weren't the same. The show made an effort to make young Ford look like a young Anthony Hopkins. Young William looked nothing like a young Ed Harris. Either William & MiB weren't the same individual, or the show is nothing but poorly thought out attempts at "gotcha" moments. There were several things in the William and MiB scenes that were either production mistakes, or intentional, subtle hints that we still didn't get the real story.

Don't you know the writers and show runners purposely used an actor that looked nothing like the young Ed Harris and went out of their way to show no backstory on the older MIB, i.e.: he had no name and no one said his name. They thought no viewer would guess and the big reveal would be a shocker. They also wanted to create an affinity with the viewer and Dolores, in that she and you had no idea who the MIB was for a long time.

I think they should have 'swapped' actors in the cemetery scene in E10 and Jimmi Simpson (aged with makeup obviously) should have played the character for the rest of the episode.

I think this would have been in keeping with the symbolism used throughout the series. Is the MiB the 'real' William or just another thread or extension of the narratives concocted by Ford?

Since the MIB is William from 30 years earlier I think that is a settled matter. You never see them in the same time line. You finallty see William when goes on an overnight killing spree, that is when the MIB is born. He admits that he has finally found out how to play the game.

The price of admission is owning the game.

In a general response to no one in particular.

Does it strike anyone as odd that:

1. William starts day one as a moralistic softee with a heart who sees no point in WW, other than his nemesis at work forces him to go.

2. Day 2 William falls in love with a robot that he thinks feels conscious pain.

3. Day 3, his work buddy kidnaps him and his robot lover and cuts her open in front of him and shows him metallic gears and steel arms.

4. Day 4, William cuts up body parts of an army of robots by himself overnight.

5. Day 5, William kidnaps his work buddy, the brother of his betrothed and his boss, strips him naked and sends him to his death.

6. Then, for 30 years, William returns to WW "on vacation" where he cares nothing about his former robot love, and proceeds to kill machines every chance he gets, all the while complaining that they don't fight back and the game is boring.

Oh, and he buys the lion share of the park corporation, which he heads.

What? This makes sense?

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Does it strike anyone as odd that:

1. William starts day one as a moralistic softee with a heart who sees no point in WW, other than his nemesis at work forces him to go.

2. Day 2 William falls in love with a robot that he thinks feels conscious pain.

3. Day 3, his work buddy kidnaps him and his robot lover and cuts her open in front of him and shows him metallic gears and steel arms.

4. Day 4, William cuts up body parts of an army of robots by himself overnight.

5. Day 5, William kidnaps his work buddy, the brother of his betrothed and his boss, strips him naked and sends him to his death.

6. Then, for 30 years, William returns to WW "on vacation" where he cares nothing about his former robot love, and proceeds to kill machines every chance he gets, all the while complaining that they don't fight back and the game is boring.

Oh, and he buys the lion share of the park corporation, which he heads.

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1. Logan explained(or realized) that the true William was not the softee that we started out with. William was putting up a fake persona himself.

2. Dolores' innocent and pure character made him fall for her.
He really thought that she was more than a robot, or maybe despite his soft appearing character, he liked the idea of corrupting her innocence at some point.
Or that he hoped she could keep him on the straights, i dont know.

3. Logan was not just his colleague, he was to be his brother in law, but William clearly didnt like him that much, especially not when he was poking fun at him and Dolores. I guess you werent trying to make a point out of point 3 in specific, since it pretty much speaks for itself.

4. What Logan did, traumatized William and he snaps, the skin and gears of Logan's buddies were not important, because those bots werent loved and were of no value to William because they werent his buddies, he would never have done that to Dolores then.

5. I wasnt sure that Logan met his certain death, it is likely, but i dont know how far the horse could have gotten. I didnt really care for the character so he might as well be dead.
But since he bought the shares of Westworld, it is safe to assume that Logan's part is done, unless the writers dig him up.
Although William did get married, so there might still be something left to tell.
But this is part of point 3&4, William snaps and goes into his darker personality.

6. Well, once he saw how Dolores starting her routine with someone else, right in front of his eyes, i guess that was a point of no return for him, well ironically, he keeps returning, but i meant his sanity or goodwill.
He still seems to care for Dolores, but his twisted mind tries to make peace with the tedious process of making her human and making her fall in love with him (again), although i kinda think she never really loved him, because even back then she was very distant and thought of Terry and her journey a lot.
Im not sure if William just wanted to die in Westworld, or that he really wanted to help the robots, it seems he wanted a bit of both.
But, it is kinda difficult to justify his motive, because if he owns a big part of the company, why doesnt he contact Ford or any executive about the robot functions and memories, or even design some for him. Money doesnt seem to be the issue.
Maybe his wife's death caused his irrational mind to just want mayhem.

The story is not finished yet, so who knows.

I skip reading the bottom line, because it is usually some lame signature.

The William MIB logic is out to lunch. Square peg in a round hole.

Do you now understand the title and meaning of the thread?

The resolution of the William/MiB story arch was probably the most disappointing aspect of E10 for me. It felt like a missed opportunity to reveal some greater truth about the guests and their role in the game. In the end, William's obsession with the maze comes across as one dimensional - nothing more that an urge to experience a new part of the game. There is no great insight on his part and ultimately the only function of his character and the whole Young William plot is for Dolores to realise that she can't trust any human.

I think that the show was veering towards misanthropy when a more subtle point could have been made. In the train, young William declares that the game doesn't pander to your base desires but it shows who you really are. This is true to an extent. But William is eventually overwhelmed by and succumbs to the ugliness of the world that Ford has created - a world without consequence. It doesn't show his true nature so much as it corrupts him.

He lives in a world which he perceives is without purpose or meaning but where his actions have consequences. In Westworld, everything is imbued with meaning and purpose but actions have no consequences. Consequences are required to complete the loop to make Westworld 'real'. William is clearly searching for a way to unify these two worlds. This is hinted at in E10 but I think it could have gone further and the final scenes between William and Dolores were sadly quite weak.