Star Trek: The Next Generation : Shelby Vs. Riker

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

I enjoy Hogan's Heroes.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Watch Paths Of Glory,Ruby and you will understand through what lengths a military organisation will go through to maintain the chain of command no matter in which preposterous manner or how unfair it may seem to an outsider.In that movie it is made very clear that an order is not a choice but like a religious decree no matter how ridiculous or infeasable it might be it must be obbeyed.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Ruby doesn't get military things.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

So was Ghengis Khan.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Hitler was an inspirational leader too.
No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker


Hitler was an inspirational leader too.


And a great example of why not to blindly follow orders.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

I'm sure you can find people that think that same thing about George Washington and General Patton.
I think it's all perspective,
However we were talking about having charisma not following orders.

No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

She loves to argue, that Rubester.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

no, no, no... with this I HAVE to agree with Ruby! ONE person was able to coerce hundreds of thousands of people to join the 'DARK SIDE'???? how fvking mental were these germans??????


no wonder they lost the war.

TWICE!



Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker


no, no, no... with this I HAVE to agree with Ruby! ONE person was able to coerce hundreds of thousands of people to join the 'DARK SIDE'???? how fvking mental were these germans??????


They were like ready-made zombies.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

History tends to record few personalities because there isn't enough room for everyone but Hitler was not the only person pushing the Nazi agenda.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

He was just the main one.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Nice, Nex.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

It was neither incompetence nor insubordination. It would be incompetent had Riker not brought up the concerns of the department heads. The captain needs to be informed of such matters as, "significant personnel problems."

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

So, you're saying the writing with Geordi was inconsistent? You're probably right about that. She must hate Jellico, then.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Geordi was consistently a hard worker, never lazy.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker


Geordi was consistently a hard worker, never lazy.
There was that episode where he was ordered to do something but muttered to himself that he would have to work around the clock to get out of it. Then he tried to get Riker to get Picard to get him out of it. The plan didn't work though because Picard was working around the clock at a much harder task to prepare for a much harder task. I don't recall if Geordie then actually did the work or died of exhaustion first.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

What episode are you referring to, User?

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Chain of Command, you're not very bright.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

It's inconsistent to have a character work all night because of an offhand remark but then have that same character complain and try to go around the chain of command to get out of work ordered ahead of possible action.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

idk... in reality life happens.

When you are younger you have more energy and more to prove. Later in life, your priorities probably change. I have worked with people who would stay very late at school, doing things in the classroom, setting up, grading papers when they were early on in their career. Then life happens. people get married, have kids... other things pop up... Priorities change.

I was very energetic when I first started teaching... to sometimes staying until 7 pm and with an hour's drive home... now, I just can't. not consistently, not any more. Life happens. People get older and their energy shifts.




Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Geordi wasn't trying to get out of doing hard work, he has no problem with hard work. This has been established with his character.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker


Geordi wasn't trying to get out of doing hard work, he has no problem with hard work. This has been established with his character.



Is this in response to me?




Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Her and User have been arguing about how lazy or not lazy Geordi has been.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Thanks Ceej. I remembered Picard's first encounter with Geordi who was nowhere near lazy. and as people grow older their priorities and energy levels change.

also this Shelby was a douche.


Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

People don't get lazy just because they get older. No where was it established that Geordi or any of the other department heads were just being lazy.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Well, people slow down as the age, for sure.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

damn it, I didn't say they did, Ruby! lazy, no but they do lose energy and a certain amount of Gusto!

forgive me for bringing a dose of reality into a character based on a human being!

Oh God. Fortune vomits on my eiderdown once more.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker


damn it, I didn't say they did, Ruby! lazy, no but they do lose energy and a certain amount of Gusto!

forgive me for bringing a dose of reality into a character based on a human being!


The argument is whether Geordi was lazy or not. I say there was no reason to believe he was.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Except for his complaining.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker


As for soldiers overseas, I don't think those Muslim countries are a real threat to us. I think being, "real jerks" has caused more problems than it has solved.


Oh geez. You wanted to hit a real sore spot, eh? I was one of those guys who killed more than 1300 of those guys over there, if you consider what G2 said about me, let me tell you something, sugar...

The only reason why you're not raped and being stoned for it right now is because people like me stood up to people like them. There were Iraqis asking me, begging me, to conquer them and convert their asses over to Christianity, because Islam is not only a sham-cult, it's prone to gangsterism and it's being supported by the likes of Iran, Russia, and China. If they weren't, my Hellfires would never have touched T-55s, T-72s, and ZSU-23/4s. You are an idiot.

And you're alive for it, and no thanks to Obama and his council of idiots.

So, if you think we made things worse, it's only because we didn't do enough. They're raping people in Europe right now and they're coming over here. As of this writing, I don't know what President-Elect Trump will do, but if they continue on their course, they'll come right for YOU right where you live. Because, according to the election results, the only morons who voted for the continuance of this kind of thing live in the cities. They'll be coming for you, and you won't have the wolves to stop them.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Did the war send you nuts or were you like this before?

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

--Did the war send you nuts or were you like this before?--

I not sure exactly what you are trying to say, but Wylde is 1000% correct in what he said.

Everyone should go out and hug their nearest raghead because soon they will be killing and raping you and you loved ones in a town near you thanks to all of the ducking Libtards.
No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Where do you stand on the catholic church raping children on an industrial scale?

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

---Where do you stand on the catholic church raping children on an industrial scale?---


Lol. Proof please...........




No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Are you serious? Do you live in a cave?

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

---Where do you stand on the catholic church raping children on an industrial scale?---


You wrote "raping children on an industrial scale"
Puuulleeees
I

If you want child rape on an industrial scal, how about on an institutional scale, look at the dirt political system of The USA's president's favorite people, the rag head Muslims.

That filthy pseudo religion propagates child rape.
You would be hard pressed to find anything anywhere close to that in the Catholic Church.



No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

So you have no problem with the abuse of children and cover up by the church, ok. Your opinion on anything else would be equally as worthless.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

You see that Spotlight movie, User?

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. 2016 is the worst!

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker


Where do you stand on the catholic church raping children on an industrial scale?


Not nearly as industrial a scale as how public school teachers have been doing, and by the way, there is no teaching, doctrine, or dogma in the Church that supports that kind of activity. Which means there are problems in the Church that have more to do with politics and not with theology. On the other hand, Islam has no problem with rape. Indeed, for a Muslim woman to challenge any of her rapists with the crime of Rape, she needs four male witnesses. And if she doesn't produce them, there's a really good chance she'll be murdered through what is known as an "Honor Killing."

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

It's strange that you read that question as "compare and contrast rape within Islam and rape within the Catholic Church". The correct answer of course would be to condemn it strongly and call for the heads of the people who did it and the people who covered it up.

Also. Did the war drive you nuts or were you like this before?

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

He's been nuts as long as I've known him.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Barbara Hale. You were great in Perry Mason. RIP William Christopher

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Oh *beep* Wylde! You really think Muslims countries were going to invade America? Or maybe you think the terrorists were planning an invasion? You greatly overestimate them. Educate yourself, dumbass.

Myths of Terrorism
by Michael Shermer
http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/myths-of-terrorism/

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Like they haven't invaded:
Germany
Italy
France
Sweden
Denmark
And
Norway?
No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

Like they haven't invaded:
Germany
Italy
France
Sweden
Denmark
And
Norway?
No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

----Really, it doesn't make sense that a Jellico could even rise up in the ranks with such a crappy attitude. None of the other Trek captains were anything like him, and for good reason. -----

I don't know about that.
I had a lot of jerky assed officers I had to work around.
They get the promotions from high up, not from their underlings.
If they are getting the jobs done, the higher ups like that and base the promotions on that. Not on whether or not the underlongs feelings are hurt.

Also, on the military, you just suck it up. You get s new CO that is a hard ass next to your prior CO.
BFD! That's just how it is. Suck it up.

I hated those Whiney babies. Like standing behind you in formation, "my feet hurt........."
'STFU, everyone's feet hurt, us Whiney baby.'

I saw the episode and I think Riker was s Whiney baby.
He just needed to make the 4 shift change and if there was time, later, he could point out the problems and see if they could go back to the 3 shifts.🙄

And his whole thing towards the end to fly the shuttle, he just needed to realize there was a mission to accomplish, and just do the flight and not be like, " oh first Captain, you have to ask nicely........." What a jerk.

No world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will succeed

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

If your department heads assure you that a change would cause significant personnel problems, it is up to you as the first officer to bring this issue up with the captain, which Riker did, and Jellico got his panties in a wad over it.

And another problem with Jellico is that he acted like he didn't give a rat's ass about Picard's life. Of course Riker is going to have a problem with this. You never leave a man behind. Jellico could have assured him that he'd do everything possible to recover Picard.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker


it is up to you as the first officer to bring this issue up with the captain, which Riker did, and Jellico got his panties in a wad over it.


But, sweetheart, that's not a problem necessary for the CO to deal with, which is what I've been saying. That's a matter at the least for the XO to deal with, and I would say that this is not for something Riker needed to. All he had to do was point to his pips, and say, "Sorry, figure it out, this is how it's going to be." That's life. You don't even have to know why the CO wants it that way, because A) it's a Lawful Order, and B) you are not in charge, he is, and if you don't like it, resign.

If you ever become an officer, your first duty is to obey the lawful orders of your superior officers to the best of your ability. Perhaps, and I'm just being a little bit generous with you here, that they weren't lazy and they only wanted to fulfill the order in the best way possible, but more likely than not they were being contrary in order to test the waters, so to speak, to see what they could get away with with the new CO. They had Riker in the palm of their hands, but they didn't know about Jellico.

Being an officer is always about fulfilling the mission, whatever it is. There is no getting around it. Know this, again for your education, the first and foremost mantra and motto and doctrine and dogma of the military is always and forever: THE MISSION COMES FIRST, ALWAYS. Forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever ANNNNNNNNNND ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever.

If you can't do what you're told to do, resign.

EDIT: Here's another thing: You cannot, as an officer, immediately assume the CO doesn't know what he's doing if he gives an order you don't like. Unless you're somehow clairvoyant, and able to detect insanity and paranoia like that exhibited by Captain Phillip Francis Queeg of the USS Caine (The Caine Mutiny, for your education), you can't do that. If the Captain orders you to charge the enemy knowing that doing so would result in your death, guess what? That's a completely lawful order!!! Because that's what you signed up to do. Joining a military means that you've signed up to die. Even at the incompetence of the officers appointed over you.

You do not have a right to complain about it either, especially to your own subordinates. If you do, it's your ass!! Because you would be contributing to the death and disaster of the mission.

You're also complaining about Jellico's callousness about Picard's chances about coming back from that suicide mission. Guess what? It was a suicide mission. There was no logical reason for anyone, least of all Picard, to come back from that. At all. Period. You're thinking with your emotions. Stop.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

WyldeGoose, it's been some time since I have seen the episode/episodes featuring Jellico but I alway had some real sympathy or empathy for his plight.

First of all, the Enterprise-D is not really a direct combat vessel, it's more along the lines of a scientific and diplomatic and exploratory ship. It does have combat capabilities but that does not make it an ideal ship to go up against large, pure warships.

Jellico was given basically an impossible task. As Worf's brother Kern ( I think that was his name ) rightly pointed out, the D seemed to be designed for relaxation and comfort and being at ease.

There almost seems to be something criminal or wrong I think in making people as comfortable and relaxed as possible and then at a moments notice ordering them to man battle stations.

In that episode about a different time-line where the Federation is at war with the Klingon Empire, the D serves as a troop transport ship. I think that was a quite appropriate use of the ship given it's large size and carrying capacity.

The D resembles a cruise liner more than anything else, that is going to impart a certain mentality to the crew. Cruise liners can be and have been quite useful in times of all-out war, serving as troop transports or cargo vessels or both.

They are not however battleships or destroyers or aircraft carriers nor were they designed to be that.

Captain Jellico understood I think that he would most likely be taking a ship and crew into direct combat and neither the ship nor it's crew were ideal for that purpose. There would have to be a lot of changes to both ship and crew to accomplish this difficult task that he had been assigned and most likely ordered to perform.

That he came across as an unfriendly grouch only demonstrates the gravity of the situation thrust upon him. I actually hate using that term, it was more like blunt and decisive but I think that's how Ricker and others saw him.

I'm sorry that the crew felt inconvenienced and bothered by the changes that he made, but this slight amount of discomfort would be nothing compared to crew being injured and dying from direct combat.

He wasn't there to make friends, he was there to make a ship and crew that should not be involved in direct combat as capable as possible when it came to direct combat. He had a lot to do and no time to do it and this involved life-and-death.

Re: Shelby Vs. Riker

You can't judge the Enterprise by what a Klingon says as Klingons are strictly warriors, and therefore have a limited perspective. The Enterprise was always ready for combat, they had to be.
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