Rectify : Teddy's Face-Down Scene

Teddy's Face-Down Scene

When Daniel assaulted Teddy in the store, did he actually rape him or did he just pose him with the coffee grounds? I thought it was the latter, but then I read somewhere on this board something like, "We all know Daniel is violent and capable of murder; just like at how he anally raped Teddy!" Now I'm questioning myself...

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Re: Teddy's Face-Down Scene

Ptsd would cause black outs. I'm pretty sure he was showing the humiliation that he received to that awful step brother of his. I just finished that episode and still not sure who the killer is but you clearly never developed empathy.

Re: Teddy's Face-Down Scene

He was drinking as well

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Re: Teddy's Face-Down Scene

You might be right that he is as bad as you say. But you could easily be wrong, too. First of all, legally speaking, what Daniel did with the coffee grounds is not sexual assault. It's certainly not rape.

SEcond, If he did rape teddy, why add the coffee grounds? The coffee was a form of humiliation. The point was to humiliate, NOT penetrate. And really, if Teddy had been penetrated, the whole story would be different.

Third, isn't it unlikely that someone who blacks out would be able to do something as intentionally humiliating as pouring coffe grounds on teddy's butt? I suppose it's possible Daniel might have killed Hannah in a drug addled rage that he didn't remember--not likely, but more likely than something as strategic as coffee grounds.

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Re: Teddy's Face-Down Scene

I think it was the latter. It was definitely an assault, but a physical one, not sexual. The "pose" was a deliberate symbol of sexual assault instead of the real thing. Teddy himself recognized its purpose, calling it "a lesson of some kind."

After Teddy's spiteful comment about enjoying rape in prison, he knew Daniel was forcing him to understand what the helplessness and humiliation of real sexual assault was like, without actually subjecting him to the sexual part.

Daniel is a sensitive person who spent nearly 20 years on death row. I would imagine that one would have impulse control problems when released, since the way to survive on an hourly basis in that situation would not be appropriate training for life in the outside world.


"You must not judge what I know by what I find words for." - Marilynne Robinson

Re: Teddy's Face-Down Scene

guys, remember the innmate who replaces Kerwin, while he jerks off tells Daniel he was the forth who raped him, while he was unconcious. Daniel might used the same technique!!!

Re: Teddy's Face-Down Scene

It was explained by both Teddy when reported to the police and Daniel when he later apologized. He did not physically rape him, he poured the coffee grounds on him. He did this to humilate Teddy (after Teddy asked him how he allowed himself to be raped in prison, which was obviously tramatic and we see this flashback).

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Re: Teddy's Face-Down Scene

Why do you watch this show? You don't understand the main character, you don't understand the show, and you have an open hostility towards the main character that is greatly influenced by your conservative bias(the show isn't about liberal vs conservative, but in your mind it is). Conservatives(not all, but a great many) tend to see things in black and white, no grey area, no nuance, no empathy, hence you determining that Daniel is a sick, disturbed sexual predator, even before the show confirms so. You're the authoritarian's authoritarian. You're so determined to convict the character that even if the show clearly stated that Daniel did not rape Teddy you'd still insist that he did, or at the least that whether he did or didn't was ambiguous.

Re: Teddy's Face-Down Scene

I didn't read any of the responses your question garnered. I'm assuming someone has confirmed that Daniel did NOT rape Teddy. This is implied in the subsequent episode but, later on, Daniel also tells Tawney what he did and specifically says "It wasn't rape" but admits to doing something that "humiliates a man." I think they wanted this question to arise because of the "looming question" of what Daniel may have done or not done the night Hannah was killed.

Also, I know people like these characters and my guess is that Teddy would have collected a posse and killed Daniel had he actually been sodomized by him. He tried to hold in the pain and anger from the assault but I doubt he could/would have had it gone that far.

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"Can we all just parachute down from Cloud Coo-coo Land?" Jimmy-Better Call Saul

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Re: Teddy's Face-Down Scene

I doubt anyone on the planet would ABSOLUTELY agree that it was sexual assault, but that does not necessarily mean penetration.

With that being said, I believe the "staging" of the scene was not only about having Teddy understand that it's possible to be violated without consent, but completely "helpless" in the process. If Daniel was able to overtake Teddy by himself and do those things to him, it surely stands to reason that Daniel had NO CHOICE when he was violated by SEVERAL inmates.

I also believe the fact this confrontation happened at the shop is significant. Daniel's biological father owned/operated the shop and he already knew that Teddy was fishing for information on if he, the rightful heir to the family business, planned to return. Daniel told Teddy that he hadn't thought about it when they were at the restaurant but he basically "marked his territory" by assaulting Teddy there. How could Teddy return to that location and NOT recall his experience? How could he make the coffee or even have a cup without knowing what Daniel had done to him? He couldn't and that looming "message" would always be there as he worked another man's family business and tried to process his shame by that man's son.

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"Can we all just parachute down from Cloud Coo-coo Land?" Jimmy-Better Call Saul

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Re: Teddy's Face-Down Scene

We can agree to disagree. There is no evidence that PROVES that Teddy was sodomized.

I have worked with assault survivors and sometimes the sense of helplessness and shame comes from being made to do anything; not necessarily being penetrated. The point being is that it's more of a SUBJECTIVE opinion about what one has endured and tried to survive.

The reality is only the writers/directors KNOW what went on and wanted to convey to their viewers. After all, leaving the question "open" creates these kind of discussions. We just don't KNOW for certain and that's the way it was written/played.

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"Can we all just parachute down from Cloud Coo-coo Land?" Jimmy-Better Call Saul

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Re: Teddy's Face-Down Scene

Teddy kept wanting to know what happened to him in prison. So Daniel showed him the only way someone badly damaged by the experience and trauma of living on death row could show. In the beginning I thought he did rape him but now I don't think he did, he just wanted Teddy to know the trauma, the fear and humiliation he felt every day in prison. I think Daniel has a hard time communicating with other people. There is an awkwardness and a clumsiness to him. He couldn't verbalize so he showed him.

Re: Teddy's Face-Down Scene

I'm rewatching and I'm currently at season 2. I never thought Daniel raped Teddy, but as you say (as well as other viewers) it was meant to humiliate. And it worked.

Re: Teddy's Face-Down Scene

I don't think Daniel could lie to Tawney. He told her, "It wasn't rape but it was violent."

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