Politics : argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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The rule isn't mentally impaired. It's people who can't handle their own finances. I know that may be splitting hairs but I can see where people are mentally competent but still declared not to be able to handle their own finances.
You are fake news, lol.
You are fake news, lol.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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The ACLU said the rule advanced a harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, "a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent." More than a dozen advocacy groups for the disabled also opposed the Obama administration's regulation.
Why do libs hate the ACLU so much?
I am the heretic of the IMDb Mod Gods. Screw them!
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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I don't, but then again, I seem to be one of the only true libs here.
I'd personally like to see a ban on private firearms, but if the government is going to insist that individuals are entitled to be armed in order to 'defend themselves from tyranny' the Second Amendment should apply to all adult US citizens, including the mentally impaired. Otherwise it's discrimination.
Last Seen Films: Silence - 10/10, La La Land - 10/10, Hacksaw Ridge - 8/10
I'd personally like to see a ban on private firearms, but if the government is going to insist that individuals are entitled to be armed in order to 'defend themselves from tyranny' the Second Amendment should apply to all adult US citizens, including the mentally impaired. Otherwise it's discrimination.
Last Seen Films: Silence - 10/10, La La Land - 10/10, Hacksaw Ridge - 8/10
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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You are such a dumb ass. You don't deserve to call yourself a lib.
Republican cons are the first to scream it's not the gun it's the mentally disable person slaughtering masses with it.
Well, they, and you, just stated you're ok with mentally disabled people continuing their carnage.
What an idiot you are. Libs like you should be dealt with, just like Rep/cons.
Farewell Transmission
Republican cons are the first to scream it's not the gun it's the mentally disable person slaughtering masses with it.
Well, they, and you, just stated you're ok with mentally disabled people continuing their carnage.
What an idiot you are. Libs like you should be dealt with, just like Rep/cons.
Farewell Transmission
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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You're no lib. You're a bigot, and an advocate for violence/fascism, if I've understood your 'libs like you should be dealt with, just like Rep/cons' comment.
Ironic that you're arguing for more restrictions against the mentally impaired since you're comments clearly indicate a mentally impaired and violent mind.
I happily admit that I have a mental illness but, unlike you, I don't have any violent instincts. Yet I'm the inevitable who should be restricted from using guns?
I also suspect the ACLU has a bit more of a claim to liberalism than you do.
Last Seen Films: Silence - 10/10, La La Land - 10/10, Hacksaw Ridge - 8/10
Ironic that you're arguing for more restrictions against the mentally impaired since you're comments clearly indicate a mentally impaired and violent mind.
I happily admit that I have a mental illness but, unlike you, I don't have any violent instincts. Yet I'm the inevitable who should be restricted from using guns?
I also suspect the ACLU has a bit more of a claim to liberalism than you do.
Last Seen Films: Silence - 10/10, La La Land - 10/10, Hacksaw Ridge - 8/10
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Next time a slaughter occurs and Republicans start with their "The guy was mentally disabled, should never have been near a gun" crap you can blame yourself for helping put a gun in his hands.
Yes, you.
Farewell Transmission
Yes, you.
Farewell Transmission
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Oh BS.
Do you have the vapors? Make a logical argument.
Some lives matter.
Do you have the vapors? Make a logical argument.
Some lives matter.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Once again, your post knocks it out of the park and serves a faux liberal who is actually a fascist.
He's literally trying to Animal Farm his way into legislation, claiming "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others" I wonder what his stance is on the aclu protecting whorrible right wing groups like Westboro Baptist Church or the KKK. Either you believe in free speech, or you don't. Likewise, you either believe Justice is blind or its not.
I am the heretic of the IMDb Mod Gods. Screw them!
He's literally trying to Animal Farm his way into legislation, claiming "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others" I wonder what his stance is on the aclu protecting whorrible right wing groups like Westboro Baptist Church or the KKK. Either you believe in free speech, or you don't. Likewise, you either believe Justice is blind or its not.
I am the heretic of the IMDb Mod Gods. Screw them!
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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So when the guy who shot Reagan and Brady walked out of the psych hospital after all those years.you'd be cool with him going right to the gun store and arming himself?
if the government is going to insist that individuals are entitled to be armed in order to 'defend themselves from tyranny' the Second Amendment should apply to all adult US citizens, including the mentally impaired. Otherwise it's discrimination.
How about a guy just released from the hospital after a week hold cause he threatened to kill his parents?
Seems at some point there is a logical point on all this, even if it is just "lets slow down the gun buy and check it out a bit."
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If you are ruled mentally defective, through due process, then those rights can be removed.
Some lives matter.
Some lives matter.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Right, but due process takes time.part of the point of it. Just my choice, but I have no problem with the due process being on whether or not the person in question gets the weapon and has to go through a delay to get it rather than arming him and then starting the process.
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But liberals have always been able to buy guns. They're just afraid to.
dies ist meine unterschrift
dies ist meine unterschrift
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/444582/no-gop-did-not-just-repeal-background-check-system-or-give-guns-mentally-ill
http://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/2/6/14522132/gun-control-disabilities-republicans-nra-obama
http://reason.com/blog/2017/02/03/how-a-never-enforced-rule-being-possibly
"the absence of evidence is the actual evidence." Tcob44
http://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/2/6/14522132/gun-control-disabilities-republicans-nra-obama
http://reason.com/blog/2017/02/03/how-a-never-enforced-rule-being-possibly
"the absence of evidence is the actual evidence." Tcob44
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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If you don't, then it's gun control. Gun control is a no it seems.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Insane people want no gun control to sell guns to mental health patients. This is what passes for American conservatism.
The word idiot was invented for Trump.
The word idiot was invented for Trump.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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The ACLU said the rule advanced a harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, "a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent." More than a dozen advocacy groups for the disabled also opposed the Obama administration's regulation.
It's not a catch all for all mentally ill. Hence why the ACLU is suing as it is a violation of rights how is any of this "conservative?"
"the absence of evidence is the actual evidence." Tcob44
It's not a catch all for all mentally ill. Hence why the ACLU is suing as it is a violation of rights how is any of this "conservative?"
"the absence of evidence is the actual evidence." Tcob44
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Insane people want no gun control to sell guns to mental health patients. This is what passes for American conservatism.
Please enlighten me on what gun control measures would possibly keep guns out of anyone but law abiding citizen's hands.
dies ist meine unterschrift
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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I legitimately don't understand why anyone would vote to allow the mentally impaired to buy firearms.
Because you are only focusing on the idea of mental retardation or behavioral disorders or other pathological conditions like sociopathy or schizophrenia.
But depending on where you are, being a homosexual or trans can be considered a mental disorder, and therefore they could be barred from owning guns.
This is not to say that I agree with an across the board lifting like what is implied. But it is a part of the discussion that can be left out.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Because not allowing the mentally ill to exercise their 2nd Amt rights is unconstitutional ask Bingcherries.
_____________http://tinyurl.com/gtb6nc2_____________
_____________http://tinyurl.com/gtb6nc2_____________
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Someone can need assistance with their finances and not be dangerously mentally ill or even dangerous.
Did you miss the subtlety or do you paint all brain based issues as equal?
Some lives matter.
Did you miss the subtlety or do you paint all brain based issues as equal?
Some lives matter.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Naw, I actually agree that the law was clumsy and vague. I'm sure most of us have an idea of where their point was, but the law itself was pretty sloppy.
_____________http://tinyurl.com/gtb6nc2_____________
_____________http://tinyurl.com/gtb6nc2_____________
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
by bingcherries-1 » 22 minutes ago (Wed Feb 15 2017 13:00:09)
IMDb member since May 2003
Someone can need assistance with their finances and not be dangerously mentally ill or even dangerous.
Did you miss the subtlety or do you paint all brain based issues as equal?
So what do you propose, cherryboy?
Every time there is a mass shooting we gEt "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Yet here they are giving guns away to the mentally ill
Fascists decide that you are a criminal, then they find the crime
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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If you are adjudicated mentally defective.after due processthen those firearms rights can be removed.
Some lives matter.
Some lives matter.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Maybe read the actual bill. It was a poor law that was even opposed by the ACLU because it was horrifically vague and overly broad, and constituted reactionary Monday morning quarterbacking following Sandy Hook.
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Why not leave it to gun dealers to discriminate?
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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It is the sexual chocolate letting another group say a ruling against you without due process.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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The Constitution.
I legitimately don't understand why anyone would vote to allow the mentally impaired to buy firearms.
I have to agree with Grassley on this.
"If a specific individual is likely to be violent due to the nature of their mental illness, then the government should have to prove it," Grassley said.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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After Sandy Hook.NRA actually came out in support of more moves in the direction of keeping weapons out of the hands of the severely mentally ill (or even those with a history of such). Now that might have been diversion from other more broad stuff proposed at the time, but figure they would not have done so if they did not agree made sense.
And on the key part in place here.we are talking about so incapable of managing their own lives that they can't even be trusted to handle their own finances. What a hard bar that is too meet, as many a parent or social worker has found out when it comes to a psychotic patient with say schizophrenia.
So let a person like that have a way to prove it otherwise, but all for him or her not being able to go into a gun store and walk away with a shotgun. Worst that happens is that it happens like two or three weeks later.
And on the key part in place here.we are talking about so incapable of managing their own lives that they can't even be trusted to handle their own finances. What a hard bar that is too meet, as many a parent or social worker has found out when it comes to a psychotic patient with say schizophrenia.
So let a person like that have a way to prove it otherwise, but all for him or her not being able to go into a gun store and walk away with a shotgun. Worst that happens is that it happens like two or three weeks later.
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Almost nothing you wrote is accurate.
You can have difficulty with finances and literally no other difficulties.
Some lives matter.
You can have difficulty with finances and literally no other difficulties.
Some lives matter.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Well guess we will just have to disagree on that one, says a guy who was in the field and lived it..but guess you know better somehow, including how hard it is to get a rep payee for someone with a severe mental illness with SSDI.
Almost nothing you wrote is accurate.
What is your experenience in the specific area?
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The two VA case managers I talked to, the mental health nurse who used to run group therapy sessions in Philly, and the other therapist I spoke to when this issue first came to light disagree with you.
You don't restrict everyone's rights because the system isn't responsive for some people's needs.
Some lives matter.
You don't restrict everyone's rights because the system isn't responsive for some people's needs.
Some lives matter.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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They very well may, but did you really ask them the question in light of those who were already on representative payee status?
And even if they would then still disagree, guess we all come from our own experience. Have talked to the parents of kids with psychotic illnesses who literally turned their bedrooms into to "panic rooms" at night with full secure locks on the doors cause they were just scared after say the kid last beat up the mom.
Kid would then go to a psych inpatient facility for say two or three weeks and then come home. For a lot of them the choice was not to take him back or do just what I said they did. And no don't think that kid should have stopped at the gun store to pick up a weapon immediately after his release, but that is just my take on it.
And even if they would then still disagree, guess we all come from our own experience. Have talked to the parents of kids with psychotic illnesses who literally turned their bedrooms into to "panic rooms" at night with full secure locks on the doors cause they were just scared after say the kid last beat up the mom.
Kid would then go to a psych inpatient facility for say two or three weeks and then come home. For a lot of them the choice was not to take him back or do just what I said they did. And no don't think that kid should have stopped at the gun store to pick up a weapon immediately after his release, but that is just my take on it.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Then have them adjudicated with mental defect.
Some lives matter.
Some lives matter.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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So much for blaming the next mass killing on the mentally disabled.
Republicans put guns in their hand at the behest of the NRA.
Farewell Transmission
Republicans put guns in their hand at the behest of the NRA.
Farewell Transmission
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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True in general as to gun rights and the way it works, but even the NRA has some leeway on this one specific part of it.or at least has in the past (tried to point out how a couple posts up).
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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It would make LGBT(QRMVZFKSJW)rallies more entertaining.
Peace.
That had not occurred to us, Dude.
Peace.
That had not occurred to us, Dude.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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The nra has been trying to do this since the 60's or so.
If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Mentally ill people are suffering, and using a gun is one of the most convenient and effective ways of committing suicide.
Would it get some wind for the sailboat? Would it get the railroad for these workers?
Would it get some wind for the sailboat? Would it get the railroad for these workers?
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Not all mental illnesses or deficiencies render people dangerous or suicidal.
Seriously People.
Some lives matter.
Seriously People.
Some lives matter.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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The problem is that it provides for the removal of a citizen's constitutional rights without due process by no institution with the authority to do so.
The bill was pretty broad about to whom it would apply and under what criteria, covering far more people than just mentally ill and could potentially include anyone with a social security number.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it. G.K. Chesterton
The bill was pretty broad about to whom it would apply and under what criteria, covering far more people than just mentally ill and could potentially include anyone with a social security number.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it. G.K. Chesterton
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Best argument: Most conservatives are mentally ill so they don't want to be excluded.
*With her alive-nostrils once snaggle front-tooth crossing the other and wear bangs -InherentlyYours
*With her alive-nostrils once snaggle front-tooth crossing the other and wear bangs -InherentlyYours
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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The rule which is being struck down is fairly recent. Does anyone really believe that this rule is the only thing keeping the dangerously mentally ill from buying a gun? The actual prohibition is much older and will still stand.
The Obama rule was simply an attempt to exploit Sandy Hook to bureaucratically expand the definition of the prohibited group, denying them due process as well.
The Obama rule was simply an attempt to exploit Sandy Hook to bureaucratically expand the definition of the prohibited group, denying them due process as well.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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True on adding something knew in, but we are talking about people who have representative payees already for their federal benefits that they would not already be eligible for absent a severe mental problem. Am sure you know how few people are ill enough and incapable of handling their own affairs for that to happen for.
The Obama rule was simply an attempt to exploit Sandy Hook to bureaucratically expand the definition of the prohibited group, denying them due process as well.
And there was due process in the new set-up. What it put in was for a person like that to not be able to immediately buy a weapon. They could go through the steps to get one after. So not sure I get your due process argument.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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We're talking about two separate situations here: those who are adjudicated to be a danger to the safety of themselves or others (already prohibited by longstanding law), and on the other hand, those who cannot, or simply do not wish to handle their own finances.
By broad agreement (NRA, GOP, ACLU) it defines those to be prohibited in an overly broad manner. Those who wish to make private gun ownership "go away" will of course have no objection to such broad prohibitions regarding this particular right.
The rule was a substantial expansion of a denial of rights. If it really seems like a good idea, simply institute it via the regular legislative process.
By broad agreement (NRA, GOP, ACLU) it defines those to be prohibited in an overly broad manner. Those who wish to make private gun ownership "go away" will of course have no objection to such broad prohibitions regarding this particular right.
The rule was a substantial expansion of a denial of rights. If it really seems like a good idea, simply institute it via the regular legislative process.
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What did you see as "substantial" about it. Again only met with a bit for the extra check to come in. It did not say you could not buy a weapon.
The rule was a substantial expansion of a denial of rights. If it really seems like a good idea, simply institute it via the regular legislative process.
And am fine with it coming via the regular legislation process, but still wondering if you realize what a very small class of people this is and how mentally ill they have to be to qualify. Any experience with rep payees and the process of getting one for say a person with schizophrenia?
Am guessing not, especially since most of what you seems to turn more general platitude on the issue.including those who would not support.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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So the rule does not block anyone from buying a gun? For what other reason would they be reported to the FBI?
This is simple. If a person is believed to be a danger to themselves or others, use the longstanding process for taking their Constitutional rights. It involves courts and judges and the person will have a chance to defend themselves. Sorry if that's inconvenient.
If a person is schizophrenic to a degree that makes them a danger, use the existing system. Do you not see the problem with the broad bureaucratic approach?
"Overly broad" is banning all Muslims because some are terrorists. And doing so outside the legislative process. See the problem?Should anyone who has declared bankruptcy lose their rights? Anyone who has bad credit?
General platitude? Try principle.
This is simple. If a person is believed to be a danger to themselves or others, use the longstanding process for taking their Constitutional rights. It involves courts and judges and the person will have a chance to defend themselves. Sorry if that's inconvenient.
If a person is schizophrenic to a degree that makes them a danger, use the existing system. Do you not see the problem with the broad bureaucratic approach?
"Overly broad" is banning all Muslims because some are terrorists. And doing so outside the legislative process. See the problem?Should anyone who has declared bankruptcy lose their rights? Anyone who has bad credit?
General platitude? Try principle.
Re: argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
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Guess I just sorta think that the "existing system" is nothing with pure magic in it and can be improved on.
For instance, the Fort Lauderdale shooter a month before had been sent to a psych hospital cause he was so sick and the cops took his gun away. After he got out they sent a letter saying essentially, "we have your gun please come back and get it."
I at least think we could do something as far as a system set up by legislation where that should at least have some kinda check on it. Have a feeling the families of those who died would agree.
For instance, the Fort Lauderdale shooter a month before had been sent to a psych hospital cause he was so sick and the cops took his gun away. After he got out they sent a letter saying essentially, "we have your gun please come back and get it."
I at least think we could do something as far as a system set up by legislation where that should at least have some kinda check on it. Have a feeling the families of those who died would agree.
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argument for letting the mentally ill buy guns?
I legitimately don't understand why anyone would vote to allow the mentally impaired to buy firearms.
Does the NRA or firearm industry lobby for this?