Inherent Vice : No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boat?
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Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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I still need to See Fire Walk with me. Never saw any of Twin peaks. I've only recently been catching up seeing Lost Hwy (mind control) and Blue Velvet and Mulholland drive for a 2nd time. I found a great summary on MD online that was just perfect.
I loved Moon. So underrated IMO. Just as good 2nd time too. I have listened to Jay Dyer on youtube, but I find he rambles too much. His videos need to be cut down and edited, esp when he's got a guest. Much of the info seems good, but there's only so many 2 hr vids I can listen to without even visual stimulation.
There seems to be all kinds of mysticism and secrecy around Mulholland Drive in general and the fact so many movies take place in/around there is compelling. I'd like to see it in person someday. I think I touched on that earlier in the thread.
Good luck getting The Man who fell to earth.. One of our theaters had/having a screening of it recently, but I kinda wanted to see on video to be able to pause it, though I didn't have a whole lotta background on it. Just like the concept overall. BTW I had to wait about 2 mos or more to get a copy. Was on a wait list. Most movies are not. Guess it had to do with the timing.
Feel free to PM me about the education stuff. I don't have kids, but I've heard about some of the common core crap and I think there might be a concerted effort to dumb down the general population for a variety of reasons (keep passive, keep in the dark, manipulate elections, replace low wage and illegal immigrants with home grown dummies, go back to the days of robber barrons with 12+ hr workdays w/no unions to be competitive to name a few). Or perhaps it's just happening naturally with our dependence on technology. At some point fewer and fewer people are going to be able to afford college, which already is fairly meaningless to getting a good job, unless you are bright/connected or specialize in something. I PMd you a month or two ago, but never got a reply. Thanks for the links and info as always.
Your education bit reminds me of this. I'm sure you've seen this creepy video already.
The Bush 9-11 Classroom Ritual, The 'KIDS' Recite: KITE, KIT, STEEL, PLANE*, MUST
I loved Moon. So underrated IMO. Just as good 2nd time too. I have listened to Jay Dyer on youtube, but I find he rambles too much. His videos need to be cut down and edited, esp when he's got a guest. Much of the info seems good, but there's only so many 2 hr vids I can listen to without even visual stimulation.
There seems to be all kinds of mysticism and secrecy around Mulholland Drive in general and the fact so many movies take place in/around there is compelling. I'd like to see it in person someday. I think I touched on that earlier in the thread.
Good luck getting The Man who fell to earth.. One of our theaters had/having a screening of it recently, but I kinda wanted to see on video to be able to pause it, though I didn't have a whole lotta background on it. Just like the concept overall. BTW I had to wait about 2 mos or more to get a copy. Was on a wait list. Most movies are not. Guess it had to do with the timing.
Feel free to PM me about the education stuff. I don't have kids, but I've heard about some of the common core crap and I think there might be a concerted effort to dumb down the general population for a variety of reasons (keep passive, keep in the dark, manipulate elections, replace low wage and illegal immigrants with home grown dummies, go back to the days of robber barrons with 12+ hr workdays w/no unions to be competitive to name a few). Or perhaps it's just happening naturally with our dependence on technology. At some point fewer and fewer people are going to be able to afford college, which already is fairly meaningless to getting a good job, unless you are bright/connected or specialize in something. I PMd you a month or two ago, but never got a reply. Thanks for the links and info as always.
Your education bit reminds me of this. I'm sure you've seen this creepy video already.
The Bush 9-11 Classroom Ritual, The 'KIDS' Recite: KITE, KIT, STEEL, PLANE*, MUST
Just icing on the cake.
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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Just download Kodi, TMWFTE is available there and so much more, all free to stream.
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
Reply |
Yes, I think it would be valuable and edifying if you could please explain in detail. Thank you ahead of time.
"I'm in a *beep* Cameron Crowe movie!"
"I'm in a *beep* Cameron Crowe movie!"
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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Where are you getting your information from that Roman Polanski hung out with Manson prior to the murders?
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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Interesting. But I didn't pick up any of that up from the movie. And looking back I don't see it either. There is not a shade of sterile evil psychologist in a secret government lair feel.
Imho it would also be "too much" packed into the movie, another layer or twist that is just one too many. You already have police brutality, drugs, counter culture and cartels, and the media in there.
Shasta is just a girl. No need for anything more complex than daddy issues to explain her behavior.
The only thing that connects really is the mental institution but that imho is a commentary on society and politics and how we raise kids. The top doctor certainly wasn't some janitor that got brain washed into being a psychologist and head of a big institution like that. He was a nutjob for sure of course.
If anything it's more about media and culture and trend watchers that brain wash us as a society, and how we get medicated, not some secret experiments.
Just my opinion :)
Imho it would also be "too much" packed into the movie, another layer or twist that is just one too many. You already have police brutality, drugs, counter culture and cartels, and the media in there.
Shasta is just a girl. No need for anything more complex than daddy issues to explain her behavior.
The only thing that connects really is the mental institution but that imho is a commentary on society and politics and how we raise kids. The top doctor certainly wasn't some janitor that got brain washed into being a psychologist and head of a big institution like that. He was a nutjob for sure of course.
If anything it's more about media and culture and trend watchers that brain wash us as a society, and how we get medicated, not some secret experiments.
Just my opinion :)
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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Firstly, not sure who/what in particular you're addressing, so I'll just add some things to the general topic. Not saying every detail can be 100% true, but believe these things to be revealed and alluded to.
It's something you really need to be well read on to see. I wouldn't have picked up on it just 2 yrs ago. I probably would have hated the movie for the most part. Kubrick's movies have these underlying themes too that are almost unrelated to the main story, but if you don't know the language you'll just gloss past it all. I'll reiterate there's not much wasted dialogue or camera work in Kubrick and PTA to a lesser degree. For instance. the scene where Coy is handed over, the instructions are very specific like unlocking/re-awekening an alter (alternate personality which many celebs are known to have and talk about it openly). There's no other reason to put these specific words in the movie than to demonstrate he's brainwashed (or believed to beas he is undercover, he might be fooling them too)
Shasta was a normal nice girl without baggage it seems in flashbacks. No reason for her to have gone off the deep end. Just listen to her dialogue when she's naked. It's nonsensical and counter-intuitiveclearly brainwashing behavior. Look up MKultra (operation monarch) sex kittens. She gives it all away here. There's no indication of daddy issues. Do you think women really enjoy feeling "invisible" and used by random men?
Japonica is another one. Young chick w/rich father, *beep* a crazy old dentist and doing drugs. She could have daddy issues perhaps, but her father seems to care for her well-being, even though he has a hint of sleaziness toobut seems quite familiar with what's happening to hermaybe he does it too with other girls, just doesn't want it happening to his own daughter. Can't say for sure, but it's not important.
The institution is quite similar to the scientology campus in CA. It's not an easy place to escape from, but I'm sure that's not the only referencesomeone else mentioned something about the specific location. Again cult/brainwashing reference. Scientology initiates you to be in it for lifeit's not exactly like stopping going to Sunday mass as a Christian. The movie works on so many levels. It's just brilliant.
It's not too much packed in. If there's already enough for a general audience=success. Hidden/deeper messages are for the more voracious consumer or the initiated. What I can never be sure of is whether the directors are confessing to being part of a culture (evil has to admit it's plans they say..even if it's hidden/symoblic..see predictive programming) or revealing what they know secretively to the audience who can decode it. I like to believe the latter, but not sure.
Again, had I not read/researched some of these things on my own, I never would have picked up on any of it. I would probably be confused and appreciate it less.
It's something you really need to be well read on to see. I wouldn't have picked up on it just 2 yrs ago. I probably would have hated the movie for the most part. Kubrick's movies have these underlying themes too that are almost unrelated to the main story, but if you don't know the language you'll just gloss past it all. I'll reiterate there's not much wasted dialogue or camera work in Kubrick and PTA to a lesser degree. For instance. the scene where Coy is handed over, the instructions are very specific like unlocking/re-awekening an alter (alternate personality which many celebs are known to have and talk about it openly). There's no other reason to put these specific words in the movie than to demonstrate he's brainwashed (or believed to beas he is undercover, he might be fooling them too)
Shasta was a normal nice girl without baggage it seems in flashbacks. No reason for her to have gone off the deep end. Just listen to her dialogue when she's naked. It's nonsensical and counter-intuitiveclearly brainwashing behavior. Look up MKultra (operation monarch) sex kittens. She gives it all away here. There's no indication of daddy issues. Do you think women really enjoy feeling "invisible" and used by random men?
Japonica is another one. Young chick w/rich father, *beep* a crazy old dentist and doing drugs. She could have daddy issues perhaps, but her father seems to care for her well-being, even though he has a hint of sleaziness toobut seems quite familiar with what's happening to hermaybe he does it too with other girls, just doesn't want it happening to his own daughter. Can't say for sure, but it's not important.
The institution is quite similar to the scientology campus in CA. It's not an easy place to escape from, but I'm sure that's not the only referencesomeone else mentioned something about the specific location. Again cult/brainwashing reference. Scientology initiates you to be in it for lifeit's not exactly like stopping going to Sunday mass as a Christian. The movie works on so many levels. It's just brilliant.
It's not too much packed in. If there's already enough for a general audience=success. Hidden/deeper messages are for the more voracious consumer or the initiated. What I can never be sure of is whether the directors are confessing to being part of a culture (evil has to admit it's plans they say..even if it's hidden/symoblic..see predictive programming) or revealing what they know secretively to the audience who can decode it. I like to believe the latter, but not sure.
Again, had I not read/researched some of these things on my own, I never would have picked up on any of it. I would probably be confused and appreciate it less.
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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I was addressing the whole MKUltra theory but specifically what you wrote about Shasta. Just for me personally it doesn't seem like it fits.
There is certainly an undercurrent of paranoia, media manipulation, shady government politics, the rich and powerful people being connected to all evil like a cabal.
But not a super-top secret CIA program. That would never be used and exposed out in the open like that. Not every rich guy would get a free mind controlled sex kitten. Why? The CIA doesn't bother with drug smuggling syndicates or cults or anything low level like that. They topple governments, not deal with street level drug gangsters.
And all that requires that MKUltra was even successful. There were terrible experiments but if this stuff really worked, it would never have been declassified. Humans aren't robots and everyone is unique. Brainwashing can work on some people, but motivating people through money, greed or power is far easier and more reliable. And MKUltra was real, but you have to assume that half of what you hear is conspiracy *beep*
But more than this imho it just doesn't fit "aesthetically" in the movie.
I don't think that is evidence for MKUltra, it's possible but there are more likely explanations (occam's razor). There are whores in real life who do exactly the same, no brain washing required. Just money.
Everyone likes to "play" different characters. And that is kind of what she played, a prostitute for Wolfman. It's not like this is pure male fantasy, females have fantasies in that direction as well. And simply playing a different role is fun, but it's also power. She discovered the had the power to be at a rich and powerful man's side, getting all kinds of attention. Of course what women enjoy is as diverse as what men enjoy. Why do people do drugs or engage in self-destructive behavior?
There are many reasons why women or girls are attracted to powerful and/or older men. Her dialogue makes perfect sense - she explains why she's been with him. It's not unnatural or deviant behavior either, this has been happening long before the 60s throughout all the ages of our evolution. Even before money exchanges hands, prostitution is the oldest profession.
Her desire to "feel invisible" can be explained in many ways. Just one way would be that she is talking about her "super-ego" watching her, her internalized parents who wanted her to be this and that and become a proper and docile wife, go to college, make all kind of demands of her. With him all she has to do is sexy. Being invisible would mean being objectified, free of any burden to life her real life. You say "Shasta was a normal nice girl without baggage" and that is a value judgement right there. Exactly what she wanted to escape, the way people look at her and judge her. Imagine for a second how freeing it must feel to see people practically kneel and grovel for favours in front of Wolfman and stand beside him as his "queen". I'm just trying to bring a point across here. People aren't mechanical robots.
She tells him all that to "confess" and in a way to apologize to him. To show him and make him understand what she did. It's hard on him to see her like that. Doc is someone who wants her to be herself and grow and not pretend to be something other than herself. He's a natural born hippie in that way, he doesn't just say the words but has the power to not make demands on her to be that way or this. That is why she comes back to him. And if she didn't confess then she couldn't be with him since there would be a lie standing between them.
So while it's an interesting theory I think it kind of detracts from the story. This is not about robots, this is about the soul of a generation. Doc is kind of a prototype for a new human, a kind of hero that can navigate these confusing times and still stay true to his ideals and do genuine good.
PS: I think a reference to scientology and cults is far more fitting really. Although scientology didn't exists or wasn't as big back then.
PPS: And Japonica's father was clearly a psychopath, a monster.
There is certainly an undercurrent of paranoia, media manipulation, shady government politics, the rich and powerful people being connected to all evil like a cabal.
But not a super-top secret CIA program. That would never be used and exposed out in the open like that. Not every rich guy would get a free mind controlled sex kitten. Why? The CIA doesn't bother with drug smuggling syndicates or cults or anything low level like that. They topple governments, not deal with street level drug gangsters.
And all that requires that MKUltra was even successful. There were terrible experiments but if this stuff really worked, it would never have been declassified. Humans aren't robots and everyone is unique. Brainwashing can work on some people, but motivating people through money, greed or power is far easier and more reliable. And MKUltra was real, but you have to assume that half of what you hear is conspiracy *beep*
But more than this imho it just doesn't fit "aesthetically" in the movie.
Just listen to her dialogue when she's naked. It's nonsensical and counter-intuitiveclearly brainwashing behavior.
I don't think that is evidence for MKUltra, it's possible but there are more likely explanations (occam's razor). There are whores in real life who do exactly the same, no brain washing required. Just money.
Everyone likes to "play" different characters. And that is kind of what she played, a prostitute for Wolfman. It's not like this is pure male fantasy, females have fantasies in that direction as well. And simply playing a different role is fun, but it's also power. She discovered the had the power to be at a rich and powerful man's side, getting all kinds of attention. Of course what women enjoy is as diverse as what men enjoy. Why do people do drugs or engage in self-destructive behavior?
There are many reasons why women or girls are attracted to powerful and/or older men. Her dialogue makes perfect sense - she explains why she's been with him. It's not unnatural or deviant behavior either, this has been happening long before the 60s throughout all the ages of our evolution. Even before money exchanges hands, prostitution is the oldest profession.
Her desire to "feel invisible" can be explained in many ways. Just one way would be that she is talking about her "super-ego" watching her, her internalized parents who wanted her to be this and that and become a proper and docile wife, go to college, make all kind of demands of her. With him all she has to do is sexy. Being invisible would mean being objectified, free of any burden to life her real life. You say "Shasta was a normal nice girl without baggage" and that is a value judgement right there. Exactly what she wanted to escape, the way people look at her and judge her. Imagine for a second how freeing it must feel to see people practically kneel and grovel for favours in front of Wolfman and stand beside him as his "queen". I'm just trying to bring a point across here. People aren't mechanical robots.
She tells him all that to "confess" and in a way to apologize to him. To show him and make him understand what she did. It's hard on him to see her like that. Doc is someone who wants her to be herself and grow and not pretend to be something other than herself. He's a natural born hippie in that way, he doesn't just say the words but has the power to not make demands on her to be that way or this. That is why she comes back to him. And if she didn't confess then she couldn't be with him since there would be a lie standing between them.
So while it's an interesting theory I think it kind of detracts from the story. This is not about robots, this is about the soul of a generation. Doc is kind of a prototype for a new human, a kind of hero that can navigate these confusing times and still stay true to his ideals and do genuine good.
PS: I think a reference to scientology and cults is far more fitting really. Although scientology didn't exists or wasn't as big back then.
PPS: And Japonica's father was clearly a psychopath, a monster.
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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Glad to hear other points of view and prolong the discussion. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Sorry but Scientology started in the 1950s by L. Ron Hubbard and "The Master" was loosely based on him and filmed by the same Director, so it's certainly possible. There's also Mormonism, which is mentioned specifically in the movie. It could be any of them though. That's not super critical which, if any, they are. It's the concept. Manson had his own little cult too. There's lots of em.
CIA (or key higher ups) I believe is indeed involved in getting the drugs to the US and elsewhere (at least in some way aiding and abetting/destabilizing nations..not physically transporting) and/or laundering drug money or in some way controlling who/what gets in. Plus arms, but that's another movie. They may cooperate with other agencies/military or work under the radar, but there's few other explanations how so much heroin is getting here today from Afghanistan (crops at record levels after we invaded and were supposed to destroy the crops.yeah right.). Could also be to benefit the profitable drug companies selling record amounts of opiates, who also lobby the politicians. They average person has no idea what's really going on there, only what we are told by media. No they (CIA) don't work at street level. Nobody said they did. That's for the criminals, cops. That's where the other lower level characters come in to play. Everyone is doing their role and getting a cut. All part of the big cloudy web of corruption. Now it could be any alphabet agency (or key players) involved in these things..and the story is vague enough for interpretation. It doesn't mean any given agency/military is corrupt at every level. You only need key people to pull some things off (just look at the current election rigging). See also the Opium Wars. Lots of people profit and users/dealers are all expendable.
There have been many atrocities that have been declassified throughout history. Intentionally Exposing civilians and military personnel to diseases, STDs, chemicals, "enhanced interrogation" and nuclear fallout to name a few. MKultra and other similar programs are no different.
Even the weird stuff in "The Men who stare at goats" is based on real events. Psychological warfare is a real thing and going on today.
Shasta may have gotten involved with Wolfman for sex and free rent and spending money, but she got in over her head. Wolfman might be shady, but he's not the real villain. He's also being targeted and manipulated for his money. That's why he got checked into the Center and forced to invest in Vegas real estate (comes back to Howard Hughes reference). He's just a front for a bigger movement. His handlers are helping to subvert him and coercing Shasta to help scam him. Maybe through blackmail, drugs, or mind control, hypnosisand she's scared *beep* Only person she can trust is Doc. I do agree with your assessment of Doc's goodness and trueness. Why does Shasta go on a 3 hour tour? Just to do drugs? Be a sex slave? Be conditioned/coerced? Eye Candy?
I don't buy any of your interpretations of being invisible. Just my take. It's clear Mickey (or just his "friends") are using her, passing her around and otherwise treating her badly more or less and she's been trained to think that's a good thing. She's just a trophy. She dresses more sexy and acts totally different than Doc recalls and then she turns on the sex kitten and seduces him to F*%$ her in a non romantic way like she's expected to do for Mickey and friends. Mickey is even a reference to Disney, home of the MK ultra Sex kittens(Brittany Spears, Christinia Aguilera, Katy Perry, MJ, etc etc). She may have even been coerced/programmed in the first place to distract Mickey, so the people around him (wife,wife's weird BF and others) can brainwash him and get his money. The more I think about it, I think she told Doc she loved Mickey in the opening scene (right?..I forget), but is also being coerced to help get him committed, so others can steal his money. I've just never heard a woman in real/fiction say she loved to feel invisible. Just an odd choice of wordsand completely opposite of most women who put so much effort into being noticed, not just by men, but other women.
There are people who through nature or nurture have multiple personalities. They aren't necessarily robots. Hershel Walker was one famous case who has several. Read up on disassociative disorders. David Lynch explores similar themes in his movies. There's some interesting theories on Tiger Woods and Serena Williams. Is it any coincidence Tiger crumbled after his father died? He was trained from a very young age to be great and succeeded. Now that could be straightforward true, or other methods could be used to mentally condition someone to not be affected by pressure, fame, etc. Tiger was notorious for his incredible focus and performance under pressure. Could be just training, coaching, psychologybut he was almost beyond humancould have gone even deeper. He was a groomed superathletebut now he seems normally human and his body is crumbling. Biggest fall ever in sports IMO. There are all kinds of theories out there about his fathers military ties and even Bob Hope's connection to CIA, MKultra. Interesting stuff. Can't say it's true or not, but makes you wonder.
MKultra and LSD may have been born out of secret government programs and abandoned, but then picked up and used by opportunists covertly (LSD most certainly) for their own nefarious uses. Sharon Tate's father was a Navy man with some interesting backgrounds refereed to in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the assassinations in the 60s were all Manchurian Candidates. That Occam's razor BS is a lazy way out of challenging topics. You have to look at motivation/incentive. It's too easy/lazy to just say some lone gunman killed _______to what end? Sirhan Sirhan for sure, but even then the story is muddy.
I don't claim to know all the answers, but have connected enough dots to try and make some sense of it all and enjoy the challenge and analysis. I also think the movie has good humor and isn't all seriousness all the time and is enjoyable on all levels. It didn't suck me in early on thoughbut later on was able to make connections/sense of it. I don't think any of this detracts from the film..only makes it more deep and thought provoking. It may be a framework for how things are perceived to work/have worked at the time without specific reference (though clearly some are mentioned).
Sorry but Scientology started in the 1950s by L. Ron Hubbard and "The Master" was loosely based on him and filmed by the same Director, so it's certainly possible. There's also Mormonism, which is mentioned specifically in the movie. It could be any of them though. That's not super critical which, if any, they are. It's the concept. Manson had his own little cult too. There's lots of em.
CIA (or key higher ups) I believe is indeed involved in getting the drugs to the US and elsewhere (at least in some way aiding and abetting/destabilizing nations..not physically transporting) and/or laundering drug money or in some way controlling who/what gets in. Plus arms, but that's another movie. They may cooperate with other agencies/military or work under the radar, but there's few other explanations how so much heroin is getting here today from Afghanistan (crops at record levels after we invaded and were supposed to destroy the crops.yeah right.). Could also be to benefit the profitable drug companies selling record amounts of opiates, who also lobby the politicians. They average person has no idea what's really going on there, only what we are told by media. No they (CIA) don't work at street level. Nobody said they did. That's for the criminals, cops. That's where the other lower level characters come in to play. Everyone is doing their role and getting a cut. All part of the big cloudy web of corruption. Now it could be any alphabet agency (or key players) involved in these things..and the story is vague enough for interpretation. It doesn't mean any given agency/military is corrupt at every level. You only need key people to pull some things off (just look at the current election rigging). See also the Opium Wars. Lots of people profit and users/dealers are all expendable.
There have been many atrocities that have been declassified throughout history. Intentionally Exposing civilians and military personnel to diseases, STDs, chemicals, "enhanced interrogation" and nuclear fallout to name a few. MKultra and other similar programs are no different.
Even the weird stuff in "The Men who stare at goats" is based on real events. Psychological warfare is a real thing and going on today.
Shasta may have gotten involved with Wolfman for sex and free rent and spending money, but she got in over her head. Wolfman might be shady, but he's not the real villain. He's also being targeted and manipulated for his money. That's why he got checked into the Center and forced to invest in Vegas real estate (comes back to Howard Hughes reference). He's just a front for a bigger movement. His handlers are helping to subvert him and coercing Shasta to help scam him. Maybe through blackmail, drugs, or mind control, hypnosisand she's scared *beep* Only person she can trust is Doc. I do agree with your assessment of Doc's goodness and trueness. Why does Shasta go on a 3 hour tour? Just to do drugs? Be a sex slave? Be conditioned/coerced? Eye Candy?
I don't buy any of your interpretations of being invisible. Just my take. It's clear Mickey (or just his "friends") are using her, passing her around and otherwise treating her badly more or less and she's been trained to think that's a good thing. She's just a trophy. She dresses more sexy and acts totally different than Doc recalls and then she turns on the sex kitten and seduces him to F*%$ her in a non romantic way like she's expected to do for Mickey and friends. Mickey is even a reference to Disney, home of the MK ultra Sex kittens(Brittany Spears, Christinia Aguilera, Katy Perry, MJ, etc etc). She may have even been coerced/programmed in the first place to distract Mickey, so the people around him (wife,wife's weird BF and others) can brainwash him and get his money. The more I think about it, I think she told Doc she loved Mickey in the opening scene (right?..I forget), but is also being coerced to help get him committed, so others can steal his money. I've just never heard a woman in real/fiction say she loved to feel invisible. Just an odd choice of wordsand completely opposite of most women who put so much effort into being noticed, not just by men, but other women.
There are people who through nature or nurture have multiple personalities. They aren't necessarily robots. Hershel Walker was one famous case who has several. Read up on disassociative disorders. David Lynch explores similar themes in his movies. There's some interesting theories on Tiger Woods and Serena Williams. Is it any coincidence Tiger crumbled after his father died? He was trained from a very young age to be great and succeeded. Now that could be straightforward true, or other methods could be used to mentally condition someone to not be affected by pressure, fame, etc. Tiger was notorious for his incredible focus and performance under pressure. Could be just training, coaching, psychologybut he was almost beyond humancould have gone even deeper. He was a groomed superathletebut now he seems normally human and his body is crumbling. Biggest fall ever in sports IMO. There are all kinds of theories out there about his fathers military ties and even Bob Hope's connection to CIA, MKultra. Interesting stuff. Can't say it's true or not, but makes you wonder.
MKultra and LSD may have been born out of secret government programs and abandoned, but then picked up and used by opportunists covertly (LSD most certainly) for their own nefarious uses. Sharon Tate's father was a Navy man with some interesting backgrounds refereed to in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the assassinations in the 60s were all Manchurian Candidates. That Occam's razor BS is a lazy way out of challenging topics. You have to look at motivation/incentive. It's too easy/lazy to just say some lone gunman killed _______to what end? Sirhan Sirhan for sure, but even then the story is muddy.
I don't claim to know all the answers, but have connected enough dots to try and make some sense of it all and enjoy the challenge and analysis. I also think the movie has good humor and isn't all seriousness all the time and is enjoyable on all levels. It didn't suck me in early on thoughbut later on was able to make connections/sense of it. I don't think any of this detracts from the film..only makes it more deep and thought provoking. It may be a framework for how things are perceived to work/have worked at the time without specific reference (though clearly some are mentioned).
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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I just think the whole idea of keeping such a program secret forever and working and regularly getting new researchers to continue the work and commercially exploiting it to e.g. mind control Shasta the new whore of some real estate mogul? It just doesn't jive with me :)
Were all three "courtesans" of the king of L.A. real estate been mind controlled?
I don't think Occam's razor is BS if you can very easily point to the behavior of Shasta and the others being what some women did since forever. Courtesans were trained in the arts of pleasing men long before Jesus was born. And it was considered and honorable profession!
Doesn't mean that your other arguments aren't true, or that LSD and peyote didn't affect both Shasta and Wolfman, but I just find it a bit too over the top to suggest MKUltra as the source for that specific behavior. I mean, just watch some pornos and what actresses do there. They aren't all programmed by MKUltra? ;)
Maybe you are just immune to poetry? ;)
JK. But to me it makes perfect sense, not literally but in a lofty way. There are so many things you can interpret that: 1. not being seen anymore as a dirty hippie druggy 2. not being seen as a person, not having to struggle anymore and just becoming an object and 3. overcoming self-consciousness and shame, just wanting to fade away from all societial judgement
Were all three "courtesans" of the king of L.A. real estate been mind controlled?
I don't think Occam's razor is BS if you can very easily point to the behavior of Shasta and the others being what some women did since forever. Courtesans were trained in the arts of pleasing men long before Jesus was born. And it was considered and honorable profession!
Doesn't mean that your other arguments aren't true, or that LSD and peyote didn't affect both Shasta and Wolfman, but I just find it a bit too over the top to suggest MKUltra as the source for that specific behavior. I mean, just watch some pornos and what actresses do there. They aren't all programmed by MKUltra? ;)
I've just never heard a woman in real/fiction say she loved to feel invisible. Just an odd choice of wordsand completely opposite of most women who put so much effort into being noticed, not just by men, but other women.
Maybe you are just immune to poetry? ;)
JK. But to me it makes perfect sense, not literally but in a lofty way. There are so many things you can interpret that: 1. not being seen anymore as a dirty hippie druggy 2. not being seen as a person, not having to struggle anymore and just becoming an object and 3. overcoming self-consciousness and shame, just wanting to fade away from all societial judgement
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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Seems you're really not comprehending what I'm saying and twisting meanings. Oh well. People will see what they want to see. MKultra or any other program doesn't have to be a secret. It's known, but how many people have really even heard of it?.and the ones who haven't dismiss it as a fairy tailjust like the ones who think all the lone gunman acted alone, because someone on TV said so. Lots of secrets are hidden in plain sight
You're really reaching on the invisible thing. You haven't really payed attention and are just making things up. You are thinking only on the surface. Thanks for playing.
You're really reaching on the invisible thing. You haven't really payed attention and are just making things up. You are thinking only on the surface. Thanks for playing.
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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I just wanted to thank you for this thread. I watched IV last night and was somewhat annoyed at it, frankly; I came to it with high hopes but found myself disagreeing with the director in an internal dialogue in my head about his choices/aesthetic/script.
Having read through the reviews here I believe my reaction was shared by many- lots of frustration/disappointment, and a frequent note of exasperation.
I do want to say that I think you are almost certainly correct in your interpretation. In particular, the "speech" Shasta gives towards the end of the film only makes sense after reading your posts. Another odd moment I failed to grapple with correctly was the "exact wording" message for the musician.
Although I doubt I'll ever watch the film again, having failed to be enthralled by it (I almost bailed out during the Martin Short chaos; and when Doc's friend walked in with the steering wheel I felt we were firmly in cartoon territory), your thread is the only thing that makes any real sense of this film to me.
Thanks for helping me to see what I didn't see on my own- particularly embarrassing to me since I've done a bit of reading on MKUltra previously!
Having read through the reviews here I believe my reaction was shared by many- lots of frustration/disappointment, and a frequent note of exasperation.
I do want to say that I think you are almost certainly correct in your interpretation. In particular, the "speech" Shasta gives towards the end of the film only makes sense after reading your posts. Another odd moment I failed to grapple with correctly was the "exact wording" message for the musician.
Although I doubt I'll ever watch the film again, having failed to be enthralled by it (I almost bailed out during the Martin Short chaos; and when Doc's friend walked in with the steering wheel I felt we were firmly in cartoon territory), your thread is the only thing that makes any real sense of this film to me.
Thanks for helping me to see what I didn't see on my own- particularly embarrassing to me since I've done a bit of reading on MKUltra previously!
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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Hey..thanks for the kind words. Glad to know people have read it and made some sense of the movie, which on face value is certainly a little baffling. Try watching it again and it comes together. I really was gonna bail on it too after half an hour. I love the scenes with Benicio Del Toroand Bigfoot. There's some great humor toothough subtle.
If you want to know about the exact wording and haven't seen in action, check out this.
You can find other examples of TV news people going into complete gobbly *beep* like speaking alien language too. Just think of the phrase unlocking the person from their alter.
Also For others, I found another interesting Tidbit while watching Rob Ager's Scarface analysis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_White_House
Nixon purchased the first of his three waterfront homes, 500 Bay Lane, during 1969 from his former Senate colleague George Smathers of Florida. Nixon visited it at least 50 times while in office as President from 1969 to 1974.
Nixon's compound was close to the home of Charles "Bebe" Rebozo who resided at 490 Bay Lane and of industrialist Robert Abplanalp (inventor of the modern aerosol spray can valve). Bebe Rebozo, president/owner of the Key Biscayne Bank, was indicted for money-laundering a $100,000 donation from Howard Hughes to the Nixon election campaign.
According to an expos by Don Fulsom, Nixon and Rebozo got bargain real estate prices from Donald Berg, a Mafia-associated Rebozo business partner. The Secret Service eventually advised Nixon to stop associating with Berg. The lender for one of Nixon's properties was Arthur Desser, who consorted with both Teamsters President Jimmy Hoffa and mobster Meyer Lansky. Nixon and Rebozo were friends of James Crosby, the chairman of a company repeatedly associated with major mobsters, and Rebozo's Key Biscayne Bank was a suspected pipeline for Mafia money from Crosby's casino in The Bahamas. By the 1960s, FBI agents monitoring the Mafia had identified Rebozo as a "non-member associate of organized crime figures."
President John F. Kennedy and Nixon met for the first time after the 1960 presidential election in an oceanfront villa at the old Key Biscayne Hotel. As the Watergate scandal developed, Nixon spent more time in seclusion there.
The United States Department of Defense spent $400,000 constructing a helicopter landing pad in Biscayne Bay adjacent to the Nixon compound. When Nixon sold his property, including the helicopter pad, there were public accusations that he enriched himself at taxpayer expense.
Scarface, the 1983 gangster movie starring Al Pacino, was filmed there.[1]
The original building was razed during July 2004 by owner Edgardo Defortuna, president of Fortune International Realty
If you want to know about the exact wording and haven't seen in action, check out this.
You can find other examples of TV news people going into complete gobbly *beep* like speaking alien language too. Just think of the phrase unlocking the person from their alter.
Also For others, I found another interesting Tidbit while watching Rob Ager's Scarface analysis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_White_House
Nixon purchased the first of his three waterfront homes, 500 Bay Lane, during 1969 from his former Senate colleague George Smathers of Florida. Nixon visited it at least 50 times while in office as President from 1969 to 1974.
Nixon's compound was close to the home of Charles "Bebe" Rebozo who resided at 490 Bay Lane and of industrialist Robert Abplanalp (inventor of the modern aerosol spray can valve). Bebe Rebozo, president/owner of the Key Biscayne Bank, was indicted for money-laundering a $100,000 donation from Howard Hughes to the Nixon election campaign.
According to an expos by Don Fulsom, Nixon and Rebozo got bargain real estate prices from Donald Berg, a Mafia-associated Rebozo business partner. The Secret Service eventually advised Nixon to stop associating with Berg. The lender for one of Nixon's properties was Arthur Desser, who consorted with both Teamsters President Jimmy Hoffa and mobster Meyer Lansky. Nixon and Rebozo were friends of James Crosby, the chairman of a company repeatedly associated with major mobsters, and Rebozo's Key Biscayne Bank was a suspected pipeline for Mafia money from Crosby's casino in The Bahamas. By the 1960s, FBI agents monitoring the Mafia had identified Rebozo as a "non-member associate of organized crime figures."
President John F. Kennedy and Nixon met for the first time after the 1960 presidential election in an oceanfront villa at the old Key Biscayne Hotel. As the Watergate scandal developed, Nixon spent more time in seclusion there.
The United States Department of Defense spent $400,000 constructing a helicopter landing pad in Biscayne Bay adjacent to the Nixon compound. When Nixon sold his property, including the helicopter pad, there were public accusations that he enriched himself at taxpayer expense.
Scarface, the 1983 gangster movie starring Al Pacino, was filmed there.[1]
The original building was razed during July 2004 by owner Edgardo Defortuna, president of Fortune International Realty
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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Interesting. Thanks for the links.
I'm reminded of the "Beltway Sniper" case of 2002. Very odd aspects. A specific phrase was used just prior to the capture. The phrase seemed to pacify and end the streak of shootings. I'm sure you are familiar with this case.
I'm reminded of the "Beltway Sniper" case of 2002. Very odd aspects. A specific phrase was used just prior to the capture. The phrase seemed to pacify and end the streak of shootings. I'm sure you are familiar with this case.
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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I thought it was odd like a lot of other things in the "news" that don't add up. I didn't hear about the phrasehave a link to that ?
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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Here's something I grabbed quickly from a Google search- it gives enough basic info for you to do further (and better) research.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/25/us/hunt-for-sniper-phrase-explained-duck-noose-traced-folk-tale.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/25/us/hunt-for-sniper-phrase-explained-duck-noose-traced-folk-tale.html?_r=0
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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Stumbled on this while watching another video. I never saw the Scientology building, but the style is very similar to Chryskylodon. Can't miss the resemblance.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/69/29/16/692916b5fa98d75411635fa2fc02fb5f.jpg
http://noiselesschatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/inherentvicetrailer7.png
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/69/29/16/692916b5fa98d75411635fa2fc02fb5f.jpg
http://noiselesschatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/inherentvicetrailer7.png
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boat?
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Man, I wish I would have come across this thread sooner. I had the same thoughts when I first watched the film when it
Came out. I bought it on DVD as soon as it came out on DVD and watched it like 4 times in the first month I owned it. I came on IMDB at that time to see if anyone else picked up on those vibes then but wasn't seeing much at that time. I haven't popped back into the Inherent Vice forum for a while so I'm just coming across this thread now. Excellent discussion. There's so much going on in this film. It really is brilliant on many levels. I agree wholeheartedly with what you've discussed here. I think both PTA and Pynchon intended those allusions to be taken that way.
Came out. I bought it on DVD as soon as it came out on DVD and watched it like 4 times in the first month I owned it. I came on IMDB at that time to see if anyone else picked up on those vibes then but wasn't seeing much at that time. I haven't popped back into the Inherent Vice forum for a while so I'm just coming across this thread now. Excellent discussion. There's so much going on in this film. It really is brilliant on many levels. I agree wholeheartedly with what you've discussed here. I think both PTA and Pynchon intended those allusions to be taken that way.
Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
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Belated welcome.
I just not saw the notice of IMDB closing the message boards. WTF! I'm sure we can thank the trolls for ruining it. In the meantime. Is there another good place for these discussions? I need to archive this thread and would like to post it somewhere to be read.
I just not saw the notice of IMDB closing the message boards. WTF! I'm sure we can thank the trolls for ruining it. In the meantime. Is there another good place for these discussions? I need to archive this thread and would like to post it somewhere to be read.
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Re: No mentions of MKUltra on these boards yet? Did people miss the boa
I've been intending to watch The Man Who Fell to Earth for years. I'll give the library a try. The Prestige is one of my favorite recent movies. I love Bowie as Tesla, he's surprisingly great in movies - Lynch's Fire Walk with Me too. I also really liked a movie called Moon directed by Bowie's son Duncan Jones. If you haven't watched Moon yet, it's worth watching.
You would really like some of Dave McGowan's books. Here's Jay Dyer's audio discussion about the Laurel Canyon book (it will sound very familiar to you, it's everything you are writing about).
Yes, I enjoyed The Ghost Writer very much. I watched when it first was released. What a prophetic movie on so many levels. Not too long after it was released there was a big scandal with Rupert Murdoch's British newspapers hacking into telephone messages of murder victims, among other major crimes. That movie also made me delve into Atlanticism and all the conspiracy FACTS that go along with it.
Of course, I am not dismissing the entire idea just because I don't agree with all the elements. Something is very wrong with the "official" story and photos. The part in the book about all the beards and sunglasses of the neo nazis in jail is very interesting. The furniture was gross, I agree. Not going to name names, but I have seen ugly celebrity furniture. Tate and Polanski were rich, but perhaps but didn't take the time to refurnish a furnished rental. I had trouble with the official story about Manson going to the same house months earlier to visit Terry Melcher.
I've been questioning everything too. It all started for me because I have a child in public elementary school. You wouldn't believe the mind control experimentation going on in the schools. Never mind the lack of actual academics in school, what they are doing is so blatantly bad. The yearly standardized tests are actually personality/behavioral tests in the thin guise of academics. I can explain in detail if you want to know more.
This is the newly crafted curriculum including "Affective Domain"- go ahead look it up, it is shaping attitudes, values, dispositions, and beliefs [AKA brainwashing]. How do they intend to grade attitudes or beliefs? Yet they don't require the children to memorize the multiplication tables anymore!
There's a whistle-blower Charlotte Iserbyt who was once the head of the US department of education, she leaked all these documents in a huge book called 'The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America' -it's a free PDF. If you have kids in public school or friends or family with kids in school and they want to know the answer to "what's going on here?" It's heavy stuff.
Also, after Sandy Hook, the school's new safety procedure changed, only making it harder for parents to visit the school. They don't even want parents in the building. Forget about helping in your child's class. Strangely, the public schools don't care about real safety improvements- assuming Sandy Hook was real (which I doubt) there could be another "incident" with a lone nut gunman, nothing has really changed to prevent it. The only changes were aimed directly at parent involvement. None of the parents noticed (other than me) because the parents are mind controlled zombies too.
Yes, here's a very good 1 hour documentary called Hoffman's Potion about LSD history. It's exactly as you wrote. and this is the "official" story from Albert Hoffman himself. If this link doesn't work, it's up several places on youtube
I'm going to try to find a copy of The Man Who Fell to Earth at the library. It might take me a week. More to come