Arrow : So Felicity is the leader now…

So Felicity is the leader now…

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I'm just trying to keep up here. Clearly, she's the one challenging his orders in the field and directing the recruits herself when she doesn't agree with anything Oliver is doing...They're already following her and willing to listen to "overwatch" over i dunno the freaking GREEEN ARROW... This is what this show is now.. and this is why i seriously can't stand her.

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

Yep. Although to be fair, it was also happening earlier this season. Sadly, people were too blinded by "THE ACTION!" and "THE DARK TONE!" to realize that Felicity's importance on this show hadn't truly been limited at all.

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

Why do you idiots only realise she has always been an equal in command now you guys need to pay attention

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

I've been saying it since season 3 and you were calling me a Negative Nancy.

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

Becaus you were complaining
Hell back in S3 Oliver was in sterling or only about 14 episodes did they forget who was the leader during his time put of sterling city

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

No darling , there's a difference between being an equal ( partner) and outright bossy bitch.. Being an equal means respecting a teammate in the field and recognizing their authority by not criticizing them or questioning them in front of the people he's charged to lead... That's what a partner does..She doesn't respect Oliver, nor does she recognize his role as a leader and mentor so you can just pack that *beep* away where you found it.. This isn't a partnership it's a fcking dictatorship run by head crybaby herself

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

And if that partner's judgement is clouded by personal feelings and guilt? Do they just continue to follow blindly?

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

Nobody is saying she should just follow blindly.. Oliver could have handled himself in the field.. WHat i'm saying is hey for once perhaps she should pull him aside when the recruits aren't around.. INstead of always challenging him when they are.. Then maybe they'd start respecting him.. Orshould she just start training them too. I mean she did KO a freaking meta human LOL fcking ridiculous

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

So she should just keep these things from them, even when they agree with her? That'd make them more 'Mom and Dad' to the recruits than they already are, and aside from Rory, they're grown men.

You are reaching for reasons to hate Felicity. Oliver was off this episode because he will always have a soft spot for Laurel, and BS exploited that fact. SOMEBODY had to question her sudden reappearance, and given that every other time something was too good, it was, Felicity was in a good position to call her on it.

Don't tell me you actually thought the cover story was good, or that they really shouldn't have caught on to her reaching for the champagne?

"Never wrestle with a pig. You get filthy and besides, the pig likes it." Cyrus Ching

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

Actually yes they should the way the show handles things ie Oliver is "in charge" but whenever Felicity disagree's with him she countermands his orders and turns the entire team against him, this makes for a horrible dynamic and is utterly idiotic on a storyline level.

What I mean by this is there is no reason anyone but Curtis should automatically side with Felicity over Oliver, Curtis has the excuse because he is more friend to Felicity than Oliver, Wild Dog should be very loyal to Oliver at this point given Oliver frequently overlooks his antics, antics which Felicity doesn't seem to think is a problem, on top of that Oliver was the one who saved his life and forgave him for betraying him, on top of this being ex military Rene should respect the guy he's in the fox hole with more than operation command sitting in relative safety barking orders, Rory on the other hand should be neutral with slightly leaning to Oliver given Oliver is the one who reached out and gave him purpose and Felicity is "responsible" for killing his family.

Instead Felicity barks and they all jump for no real reasom, Oliver's judgement maybe impaired but they can say the same with Felicity, what her BF gets murdered and the next day she's ordering the team to kill someone when Oliver is right next to that person and is trying to reason with her, this makes no sense and only happens to continue to undermine Oliver and place Felicity onm top of this imaginary pedestal.

Like most of this suff I think they could have wrote the episode to reach trhe goals they wanted without the idiocy, I mean simple things can make scenes like the take down by the canary statue atleast make sense, like Felicity making it clear Ragman if I give the order you get Oliver out of there then Wild Dog drop her as quickly as possible, because atleast that makes Felicity look like she's thinking logically but as they showed it she was even more unreliable to trust than Oliver in this episode.

I mean think about it she had them on separate channels so when she gave the takedown order Oliver had no clue the attack was coming, she then trusted Wild Dog a established bad shot to kill Siren with Oliver right next to her, but because it doesn't fit the narrative the showrunners want they gloss over the real issue's of the episode to focus on Oliver and his tiresome guilt.

Now this isn't to say Felicity was wrong to question Siren's story or action but that is so much more secondary than the fact Felicity has created a team that cannot function without her approval, at this stage if they used any sense Oliver would absolutely not trust his team or her ever again because she will flagrantly disregard his thoughts, feelings, judgement or authority at the drop of a hat, and the tema does no function without Oliver, Felicity they can but Oliver they cant.

Now before you go nuts on me please note I'm not trying to discredit Felicity here because I'm talking day to day, day to day Felicity is a bonus she makes things easier but they can deal with most things ultimately without her, unless they come across top level tech crap, but without Oliver even the better team of Diggle, Thea & Laurel couldn't really protect the city, and the one time this team tried to do it without Oliver one got nabbed and spilled his guts, hell Dig, Laurel & Roy failed and all the Oliver less teams still had Felicity, so why they think it's a good idea in a story based on Oliver needs a team to immediately and constantly undermine his bond to his team just to giving the nod as if to say Felicity remember she's great right, like it actually goes against their goal because all it does is show how detrimental Felicity can be to the team, where if they simply did what was said and have her be Oliver's consigliere, you know the they call no shots but no shots get called without their input type of deal, it allows her strengths to shine but Oliver to remain the leader and promotes a better team unity.

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

Wasn't it more the point that in this situation, they also didn't trust Black Siren, and could see that Oliver's judgement was impaired?

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

But both leaders were clearly impaired Oliver though less dangertously, he was willing to hear out Siren with the team hiding as back up incase she was setting him up, she had them launch a deadly assault on Siren with Oliver not 5 feet away from her without him knowing or them trying to save him.

Also then theres the running joke on both parts that either trusted the team to do either job, like in the end Oliver is the one who saved the team from Siren killing them because they tried to kill her, the exact opposite of what either Oliver or Felicity wanted to happen.

But what did Oliver do that put his judgement in question? did he let Siren go, let her out of her cage, scream and shout at anyone for trying to hurt her? No but Felicity ordered the team to kill her on her say so without any thought to protecting Oliver from them given Rene's missed multiple times with a sniper rifle on a unsuspecting mark multiple time from across the street, why think he can take out a suspected battle ready meta human without problems? also Felicity let Siren out and put herself in immediate danger to hopefully track her via nanites, Felicity imo comes across the less reliable if I were the team, but that's just me.

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

I think the whole point is that they are setting up Felicity for her 'darker' arc, where she will be making decisions driven by her desire for vengeance. Reminiscent of some of Oliver's behaviour in the past. There will be ramifications, that is kind of the point of story arcs! You shouldn't view characters actions in a vacuum - they are influenced by previous story, and by story that hasn't finished being told!! It is kind of strange how people complain about Felicity supposedly being so perfect, but at the first sign of less than perfect behaviour, all they can do is criticise! It is called a character arc for a reason - it carries through the episodes. I for one, will be interested to see it develop!

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

That's fine and I get you but in both aspect of what you just said for it to work either or both things need to be acknowledged by other characters because the unwillingness to acknowledge the characters faults is my only complaint, well that and when they do silly things like hack a Betamax tape in 5 seconds.

Her going dark I like if they actually go for it, the problem is I doubt they will go for it, it's like last season imo the Olicity split over William and Oliver hiding it I hated, not because oh Felicity is such a bitch, but because they were so concerned about making Felicity be justified they lost any interest in the story, and she still came off bad but they just never acknowledged it on the show, which is a fault even Geeky admitted to.

In this ep Oliver's whole issue worked though imo was blown out of proportion given how little his judgement was impaired compared to Felicity's but still they acknowledged Oliver couldn't see clearly because of who Siren was, but they just ignore the whole thing with Felicity which was so much more obvious but no one questioned or mentioned once, a dark arc wont work if they stick to this tunnel vision approach to the character because it makes it feel disjointed imo.

Even a little something would have worked like Oliver having an end scene with Diggle and telling Diggle what happened, hell just a real tease like the last scene is 20 seconds or less, Oliver sits in front of Dig and looks concerned, Dig asks what's wrong and all Oliver says is "I'm worried about Felicity" then cut to black, bring it back next week and let that start the focus on Felicity's issues, it wouldn't be perfect but atleast it acknowledges the flawed actions of the character in the episode.

The problem will persist though if they stick to the handling of the character over the last few seasons where no matter what she does she cannot be considered at fault, I mean look at how they handled the Havenrock plot, could have been awesome but because of how they handle the character and any other around her it was just another meh wasted story, basically they need to *beep* or get off the pot either Felicity is perfect or human, but she cant keep being a lightning rod for drama and then treated as this perfect being it just doesn't work imo.

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

It's been well-established at this point that the recruits don't always listen to Oliver and in fact will go against him if they feel it's warranted. Seeing as Wild Dog referred to them as Mom and Dad, it would seem that it's also established that they would see Felicity as being of equal authority by now.

The fact is, Oliver was definitely in the wrong last night, so I really don't know why you insist on trying to paint Felicity in a bad light, other than you just don't like her. A fact that has ALSO been well-established at this point.

"Never wrestle with a pig. You get filthy and besides, the pig likes it." Cyrus Ching

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

I don't dislike her I dislike the writing because it's horrible, they write her as a contrasting character which would be great if they wrote the rest of the show to fit that, or did you not notice that when I have issue with her stuff I generally throw in a way to go the same direction they want but follows the narrative they are trying to tell, like this week throw in a line about make sure you get Oliver out of there before you take her down, that's all it takes but it completely alters the scene.

If you don't get what I mean the scene how it was written plays like Felicity overrules Oliver disrespectfully just so she gets what she wants, she showed 0 concern for Oliver all she wanted was blood, you add a line about get Oliver clear first the scene plays different, she's not out for blood but she's not willing to risk Oliver's life, she overrules him because she's afraid for him, her actions are motivated by her wanting to make sure Oliver is safe, both have her overreact in that scene but one she's bloodthirsty the over she's hyper vigilant, and it flips the character in that scene.

It also allows for more natural scenes later, in this despite being usurped as the leader again, his life put in danger by his own team and everyone of his choices dissected by Felicity he again makes no comment back about her much more questionable choices, instead it's just more her talking down to him and giving him uneeded attitude, like look at it they are both as adamant in their beliefs, but Oliver does not need to attack her, she though constantly does this to him and he is constantly on the defensive, this is because the writers don't want you to think about her actions because of how flawed they are.

Now if you flip it to the scenario I described they can have very natural back and forth, she can come out smelling like a rose, because why she told them to move was because she was afraid for Oliver, she let Siren out her way because then either Oliver is right and theres no problem, or he's wrong in which case it didn't need to be Oliver in danger, it alters so much of the episode from that point on, but it keeps what they want the same, Felicity is right like always but now she doesn't come across as an unintentional pain for it.

I don't hate the character I hate the handling of the character, because the character even now has so much promise, but them poor writing does nothing but shrink that promise more and more, if I hated the character I wouldn't defend it at times which I have also done.

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

... I don't know what to do with this.

I mean, you say you don't hate her, but this complete misread of the scene says different.

Oliver said, in Season 2, episode 10, that they were partners. That he didn't see her as an 'employee'. So why are we characterizing him as leader, especially since they spent a good part of S4 trying to turn Team Arrow into a democracy? They were sick and tired of Oliver trying to rule the roost again after being gone for months. What, Felicity actually deigns to prevent Oliver from making what would truly have been a mistake and she's castigated for it?

If it seems like Felicity is acting like Oliver's equal, it's because she is. He made a point of saying she was in S2. I'm sorry that people have a problem with this, but if he says she's his partner, she's his partner. That's all there is to it.

"Never wrestle with a pig. You get filthy and besides, the pig likes it." Cyrus Ching

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

Actually you are staing that!


means respecting a teammate in the field and recognizing their authority by not criticizing them or questioning them in front of the people he's charged to lead...


If she can't question him in the field (because she can't just stop the action, pull him aside and have a conversation!), then she must follow his orders without question, i.e. blindly. This was not a circumstance where retrospective disagreement would have any relevance.

I am not saying she was necessarily completely in the right, given that she too was clearly influenced by her own emotions, but Oliver was obviously compromised by his feelings of guilt, and desire to 'reform' Black Siren. Ultimately, he was proved to have been wrong to have had faith in her, but that doesn't necessarily make him wrong to have had tried. That was kind of the point of the conflict in opinion - there was right and wrong on both sides, and both were acting out of more than strategic necessity. Situations aren't black and white, they are more nuanced, which was the whole point of most of the episode!

Additionally - they are not in the military. While yes, they are all following Oliver, I think the show has made it very clear that Diggle and Felicity are there on their own terms. They have always been willing to go past Oliver if they think he is wrong - they wouldn't have brought him back from Lian Yu if that wasn't the case. Obvious case in point is Roy - they didn't tell him what they were doing, because he wouldn't have approved. But not everything is up to Oliver, hence why it is a partnership, not a dictatorship!

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

Oliver wasn't thinking straight

Re: So Felicity is the leader now…

Been the lead of this show anyway for 2 seasons. Bwa ha ha!!!!!
Just kidding..........sorta.
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