Arrow : Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

The single biggest mistake of the show is this:

1. Everyone and their sister is a superhero

Seriously. How can the Green Arrow have an impact or much of a story to tell when it seems like every week or every other week, one of his friends or family members becomes a superhero? It really drains away the suspension of disbelief of the show and the depth of Oliver's character. At this point the series is almost a caricature of itself. What's the point of having a superhero if anyone can become one? If nearly everyone's a superhero then what's the point of having them since apparently any joe schmo off the street can become one?

In second place is:

2. Too many characters

I thought it had gotten bad in the previous two seasons but this current season now has even more superheroes and characters, it's too much. Unless there's a ton of time spent on developing each character, all these extra characters do is waste the time that could have been and should have been spent on developing Oliver's character, who this show is supposed to be about. These days Oliver almost seems like an afterthought with all these side-stories of the quasi-superheroes that he's teaching. The show is really ruining the idea of what a superhero is and especially what Oliver Queen is all about.

Lastly:

3. The Green Arrow's character is incongruous with the comic book version. It started off right in the first season but subsequently with each new season it moves further and further away from that. He's supposed to be dark and mysterious, hiding in and working from the shadows, much like Batman. These days more or less everyone knows who he is, where his secret lair is and who all his friends and family are. He might as well throw away his disguise because there's not much of a point to it.

It would behoove the writers of the show to go back to their roots and bring back the original Green Arrow who was fighting crime on his own, from behind the scenes, not running around with a crew of amateurs and wannabes who do more harm than good.

Honestly it seems like the show is working harder to be more politically correct and in touch with social media fandom as opposed to staying true to the source material, a lone wolf who's out seeking justice for the weak and oppressed. Less fan service pandering and more authenticity, please.

P.S. Please quit bringing dead characters back to life, this removes the impact a death has on a show and ultimately just really cheapens the characters and the show overall.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

Because arrow is the more popular show and they think we care about new characters
And the number of returning dead is low Idk why people make a big deal about it

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

Given how many threads we have titled, "Who would you like to see in the show?" I'd say that any assumption that "we care about new characters" must be true.

And you are right, the number of characters returning from the dead is extremely low. Merlyn wasn't even dead, but people count him as "returning from the dead". Oliver never died, but he gets two points for returning twice. It's sad.

Buuuut..... maybe y'all should take this guy's word on Bringing Back Characters From the Dead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zHfcGHuV8Q



~~~~~
Because supporting your thesis is tough, but throwing adjectives is easy.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


Originally posted by ninthcentury:
Given how many threads we have titled, "Who would you like to see in the show?" I'd say that any assumption that "we care about new characters" must be true.

And you are right, the number of characters returning from the dead is extremely low. Merlyn wasn't even dead, but people count him as "returning from the dead". Oliver never died, but he gets two points for returning twice. It's sad.


Major characters who have died and RETURNED to life:

Floyd Lawton/Deadshot ("Died" S1E3, Returned S1E16)

Walter Steele ("Died S1E21, Returned S1E21)

Slade Wilson/Deathstroke ("Died" S2E8 Flashback, Returned S2E9 Flashback, "Died" S2E23 Flashback, Returned S2E9)

Oliver Queen ("Died" S3E9, Returned S3E10... Died S4E8, Returned S4E8)

Roy Harper ("Died" S3E19, Returned S3E19)

John Diggle ("Died S3E22, Returned S3E23... Died S4E8, Returned S4E8)

Malcom Merlyn ("Died" S1E23, Returned S2E7... "Died" S3E22, Returned S3E23)

Laurel Lance ("Died" S3E22, Returned S3E23... Died S4E8, Returned S4E8))

Sara Lance ("Died" S1E1 Flashback, Returned S2E4 Flashback... "Died" S2E23 Flashback, Returned S2E4... "Died" S2E13, Returned S2E13... Died S3E1, Returned S4E3)

Ray Palmer ("Died" S3E22, Returned S3E23... "Died S3E23, Returned S4E6)

Andy Diggle ("Died" Offscreen S1E3, Returned S4E7)

Thea Queen (Died S4E8, Returned S4E8)

Felicity Smoak ("Died" S3E22, Returned S3E23... Died S4E8, Returned S4E8... "Died" S4E9, Will return S4E10)

You were saying?


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

Characters who have died and remain dead:

Tommy Merlyn
Moira Queen
Robert Queen
Edward Fyers
Shado
Yao Fei
Sebastian Blood
Isabel Rochev
Dr. Anthony Ivo
Cyrus Gold
Ra's al Ghul
Maseo Yamashiro
Baron Reiter
Ruvé Adams
Conklin
Tobias "Charon" Church
Billy Malone
The original Count Vertigo
Detective Lucas Hilton
Kate Spencer
Alexi Leonov
Adam Hunt
Frank Bertinelli
Billy Wintergreen
Barton Mathis / Dollmaker
Chase "The DJ"
Frank Chen

This excludes villains who appeared for less than two episodes, that were eventually killed by Oliver: Such as Mr. Blank.

Also, Walter was kidnapped, he didn't die. Felicity also wasn't dead, simply wounded. Ray Palmer was declared dead, yet was actually alive on a subatomic level. Floyd Lawton was simply hit in the eye with an arrow, forcing him into retirement until her was recruited by China White.

You were saying?

Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


Originally posted by cmtaylor531:
Flash has the exact same problems as Arrow. People just seem more willing to accept those Flaws because Grant Gustin is very charismatic and likeable therefore somehow making Flash above the problems.

Also use Buffy as an example here. The later seasons are a prime example of the flaws Arrow/Flash have. The had recruitment of Slayers which made Buffy feel less special (even if they did a decent job of writing the need into the stroyline) especially considering by then willow was a witch and they had vampire fighting with them as well. I think anyways. Spike was working with them then as well right. All the later seasons blend together it's been so long since I watched that series.


Actually I mentioned I have the same problem with 'The Flash', just didn't make a big deal out of it since this isn't the board for that. Buffy is one of my all time favorites but yes I didn't care for the legion of slayers, either, I thought that was lame and lessened Buffy's uniqueness, although that's the exception of poor writing to an otherwise brilliant series. 'Arrow' on the other hand started out great in the first couple of seasons but has been on a steady, gradual decline ever since. Both 'The Flash and 'Arrow' do need better writers, I'm not sure if the writers have changed from the first seasons of both shows, but the quality certainly has.


Originally posted by Austrapol:
This excludes villains who appeared for less than two episodes, that were eventually killed by Oliver: Such as Mr. Blank.

Also, Walter was kidnapped, he didn't die. Felicity also wasn't dead, simply wounded. Ray Palmer was declared dead, yet was actually alive on a subatomic level. Floyd Lawton was simply hit in the eye with an arrow, forcing him into retirement until her was recruited by China White.

You were saying?


I wasn't questioning that characters have died and remained dead so I fail to see your point. When a slew of people don't stay dead, as in the list I provided, it really lessens the impact that the writing has on the show since there's no sense of permanence or impact from that action, death becomes trivial, a mere plot twist for the sake of convenience, not an actual burden or trauma upon those involved.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


by AustraPol » Wed Jan 18 2017 17:51:46
IMDb member since January 2016
Characters who have died and remain dead:


Great list!

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

Obviously you got that list from some website, or other poster, which or who is a lousy critic and can't count even as high as his fingers and toes. Maybeprobably Knightfall182.

But tell us, don't you know the difference between died and "died"? You were saying?



~~~~~
Because supporting your thesis is tough, but throwing adjectives is easy.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


Originally posted by ninthcentury:
bviously you got that list from some website, or other poster, which or who is a lousy critic and can't count even as high as his fingers and toes. Maybeprobably Knightfall182.

But tell us, don't you know the difference between died and "died"? You were saying?


Dude, it's ok to admit that you're wrong, no big whoop. Fact remains all of those characters died and came back to life and it's weakened the over-all story because of it.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

another useless troll thread

comic book superhero show.......you can argue the flash too but no stop making fake accont trolls and go away

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

Yeah, thank you, it's good to point that out.



~~~~~
Because supporting your thesis is tough, but throwing adjectives is easy.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


by dcfan1
» 3 days ago (Fri Jan 20 2017 23:08:14)
IMDb member since November 2012
another useless troll thread

comic book superhero show.......you can argue the flash too but no stop making fake accont trolls and go away


You clearly don't comprehend the meaning of the word troll. This is a discussion thread, if you don't like it, stay out of it. You coming in here attacking without any substance whatsoever is the very definition of a troll.

Also who has the fake account? The only one trolling here is you with your delusions, take your own advice and leave.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

Crappy writers who don't know how to do a proper ensemble show.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

👆 This.


May the Force be with you.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

You could ask the same question about the Flash and Supergirl. The day they made Jimmy Olsen the Guardian was when they went completely overboard.

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Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


Originally posted by DebLovesBeccy:
You could ask the same question about the Flash and Supergirl. The day they made Jimmy Olsen the Guardian was when they went completely overboard.


I agree about the Flash. Haven't seen enough Supergirl to know about it but it seems very childish/poorly written from the couple of episodes I have seen. I do like the Flash but it's going down hill in this season, fast.

@ other comments, totally agree. Seems like the show has lost its sense of direction and is just appealing to the lowest common denominator. The popularity shows the majority lacks discerning tastes, that and it's probably appealing to the younger crowds more, which goes hand in hand with the former.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

X-Men TAS and Spider-Man TAS were also appealing to younger crowds more.

Yet they had better writting than what we see in the DC shows at the moment.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


Originally posted by baronofspades:
X-Men TAS and Spider-Man TAS were also appealing to younger crowds more.

Yet they had better writting than what we see in the DC shows at the moment.


I'm not familiar with those but there are always exceptions to the rule :)

I think this is a great super hero and has been and still is a major missed opportunity for what could be a much better show. I still enjoy it somewhat and will continue to support it but they really need to bring it back to basics and more like the comics, it's been steadily getting worse and it's just sad to see what it has become as of late.

Come on, writers, make the show about the Green Arrow, enough of the vigilante wannabe groupies and Felicity's super-powers, that is really killing the show. Make all the other characters a part of the background, retire them and allow the G.A. to shine in the spotlight as he should.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

They are cartoons. Very good ones in my opinion though. You should check them out.

I havent read any comics. But i do agree that the show needs to return to the basics of season 1 and 2. And by that i dont mean to simply have Oliver kill. There needs to be logic and writting that fits the development and continuation.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


Haven't seen enough Supergirl to know about it but it seems very childish/poorly written from the couple of episodes I have seen. I do like the Flash but it's going down hill in this season, fast.


I have been a big fan of Supergirl since they brought her back as the Matrix and she merged with Linda Danvers and the main problem with the Supergirl TV show is Supergirl was never a team effort in both the Kara Zor-El and Linda Danvers series and Kara spends the majority of time flying around in the sky and up in space on her own and isn't very trusting of humans. While I like Alex I feel all the added characters (Alex, Jimmy, Winn, Hank etc) are unneeded and have taken away from the character.

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Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


Originally posted by DebLovesBeccy:
I have been a big fan of Supergirl since they brought her back as the Matrix and she merged with Linda Danvers and the main problem with the Supergirl TV show is Supergirl was never a team effort in both the Kara Zor-El and Linda Danvers series and Kara spends the majority of time flying around in the sky and up in space on her own and isn't very trusting of humans. While I like Alex I feel all the added characters (Alex, Jimmy, Winn, Hank etc) are unneeded and have taken away from the character.


Obviously it's a trend, I didn't know that it was happening on that show as well, so that's 3 superhero shows that are doing the same exact thing. Actually now that I think back, they did the same thing on 'Smallville', but not before several years had gone by.

I hope they listen to some of the wiser fans and stop this nonsense because it's really detrimental to the story, on all these shows.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

Ηmmm...if i recall correctly they never did that on Smallville. Sure at some point Green Arrow was introduced and teamed up with Clark but i think it was done well. As for other heroes. We had encounters and an episode where they teamed up but it was well built [given how Clark had encountered each individual in the past]. So i dont think its fair putting Smallville in that category.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

Pete became super elastic in the episode 'Hero'.
Chloe was an empathic healer and also had super intelligence, truth compulsion, super hacker (Watchtower).
Lana became a vampire for a day, Halloween episode, then a witch with super powers in 'Spell'.
Tess became a cyber super villain, AI, aka 'Watchtower II'.

Now I'm not saying that it was nearly as bad as these other shows we're discussing, it leaned in that direction, not to mention the crutch of the "freak of the week" meteor where anyone could became a hero/villain.

Don't get me wrong, I love 'Smallville', one of my all time favorites, far better than these shows, but it wasn't without its flaws.

I think some of the "Everyone's a super hero" seeds were sown in that show since it spawned 'Arrow', 'Flash' and 'Supergirl', now it has come to fruition and it's just growing out of control.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

Of course. No show is perfect.

But the thing is that Smallville from the beginning established a formula and stuck with it.

The meteor freaks wasnt a bad idea. And it was logical since the people gaining abilities were very young. And power does corrupt.

As for the other examples. Some were ok and some were indeed not. Chloe didnt bother me. I liked her character.

The super hero seed started from Arrow near the end of season 2 and bursted out of control in following seasons. The Flash was ok in season 1 but got the disease from season 2 and on. Supergirl and LoT were kinda bad since the beginning. Overall i think that the creators are trying their very best to give a very narrow and illogical view of good,evil and of character development. And that hurts the plot and the characters. The biggest example i have is in the latest Supergirl episodes where basically everyone is telling Mon-El that doing anything other than saving/helping others with his powers is wrong.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

@Baronofspades, yes, for the most part I think it was a great formula, but over time it became a crutch and it began to lack originality, it was more rinse and repeat than creative, progressive story telling. I really do think that's where it all started though, even though it was minimal compared to today's superhero shows, 'Arrow' and the rest just took it to the extreme and ran with it aimlessly.

I agree about 'LoT', just very weak writing, way too over the top, illogical, full of plot holes, not the best acting. 'Supergirl' I haven't seen more than a couple of episodes but it's even worse than 'LoT', I really don't want to follow it, it's too dumb. I've been sticking with 'LoT' hoping it'll get better but it's not, it's getting worse. I think the idea's cool but the writing and continuity is just all over the map so I'm just about ready to give up on it.

'Smallville' worked because it had intelligent writing for the most part, it had deep, complex storylines and character development, and it was written for a more mature audience. These newer shows are getting progressively dumber, weaker and so bland I barely even recognize it anymore. If 'Arrow' doesn't improve throughout the rest of this season, I may give up on it as well. I'm hoping it'll improve but I have my doubts.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

Agreed.

I will add one more thing. It is really crossing the line having every single character be a superhero in order to cause change.

Masked heroes no matter how likeable are still breaking the law. And that is something Oliver and Diggle both realised at first and second season. They wanted to help the city but they knew their limits and that they couldnt save everyone.

Yet in this season Oliver is acting like a kid. He is arrogant and believes that he can save an entire city all on his own [or with the help of a small number of people]. Police and other intelligence agencies in all the DC shows are being treated as punching bags for the villains.

That is wrong. Too much fantasy ruins things. There needs to be some reality. Oliver in this season is prolonging the chaos instead of quelling it. And its a shame to see him and Diggle have fallen so low.

Once they were a great bromance. Now they are 2 mindless vigilantes.

But its not surprising. Costumes,senseless action and lame teenage drama and humor are what the masses want these days. Just check the ratings of the season 5 episodes. All are considered to be great episodes. Quality no longer matters.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


Masked heroes no matter how likeable are still breaking the law.



This is literally what the genre is about.



And that is something Oliver and Diggle both realised at first and second season.


Didn't stop them.



Yet in this season Oliver is acting like a kid. He is arrogant and believes that he can save an entire city all on his own [or with the help of a small number of people].


No different than the first season.


Police and other intelligence agencies in all the DC shows are being treated as punching bags for the villains.


Again, no different than the first season of this show.



Once they were a great bromance. Now they are 2 mindless vigilantes.



That is all they've always been.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

Lets agree to disagree.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

These are all valid points that ruined the show, I agree.
Everything is good in small dosage, when it becomes too much it is shallow and cheesy.

And the lost of realism in this show is really frustrating, I do realize that it is based on comics books, there you can hardly look for realism, but it started as more grounded show, where they tried to incorporate the comics characters in reality and make a non comics book fans watch it too.

Now it is too childish and unbelievable in very big portions. I am not saying the fantastic elements didn't exist in earlier seasons too, but they were presented believable and were not too much. And there was a certain secrecy and mysteriousness that also added to the more believable aspect. Now everything is so upfront, so theatrical, so in your nose and even scripted in the lines.

Characters stopped to have the feel of real people too. Oliver sometimes is like a robot to me, this season, last season he was like completely different person. Some character interactions are so forced just for promotion and marketing, like Oliver and Barry in the crossover. The whole wholly trinity thing was so laughable. When did Oliver become such a geed friend with Barry and why is he defending him anyway.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

All valid points. I not sure I'd say it runs the show but it has made being a mask feel less special. I didn't mind it as much when speedy or Laurel became one because it was set up from early on but now with the recruits it's becoming to much. I think maybe f the had been a few seasons later it might be better. I enjoying this season though so eh oh well.

Many shows i have loved seem to fall into this problem especially had it evolves though.

Flash has the exact same problems as Arrow. People just seem more willing to accept those Flaws because Grant Gustin is very charismatic and likeable therefore somehow making Flash above the problems.

Also use Buffy as an example here. The later seasons are a prime example of the flaws Arrow/Flash have. The had recruitment of Slayers which made Buffy feel less special (even if they did a decent job of writing the need into the stroyline) especially considering by then willow was a witch and they had vampire fighting with them as well. I think anyways. Spike was working with them then as well right. All the later seasons blend together it's been so long since I watched that series.

I quit watching TVD but I think it to had that flaw between adding witches, werewolves and everybody becoming a vampire. It made Damon and Stefan less intriguing or unique.

Charmed majorly suffered from this granted I think it had to to compensate for getting rid of Shannon Dorty. It just seemed like white lighters became less special.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

They took the characters from the cast that aren't superheroes in the comics and either killed them or made them superheroes anyway.


They all strive to deviate from the norm, but collectively swarm to be all the same.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


The Green Arrow's character is incongruous with the comic book version. It started off right in the first season but subsequently with each new season it moves further and further away from that. He's supposed to be dark and mysterious, hiding in and working from the shadows, much like Batman. These days more or less everyone knows who he is, where his secret lair is and who all his friends and family are. He might as well throw away his disguise because there's not much of a point to it.
That's been an established part of the comics character since the 70s, the opposite of being incongruous with the comics version. Comments like "two blond, bearded public figures — it's not hard to do the math" were common throughout the comics stories. He even ditched the mask because it was pointless.

All roads lead to truth if you're willing to travel honestly.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


That's been an established part of the comics character since the 70s, the opposite of being incongruous with the comics version. Comments like "two blond, bearded public figures — it's not hard to do the math" were common throughout the comics stories. He even ditched the mask because it was pointless.


For 30 years that wasn't the case though, so going by the original comics, he was still a shadowy, mysterious figure.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

Not even close.

He was bright and colourful in his original comics appearances, showy and anything but shadowy, fighting crime for the fun of it and expecting adulation for it. He had a secret identity but beyond that, he wasn't a man of mystery.

The shadowy, mysterious figure came about with Mike Grell, who basically threw away any pretence of a secret identity, with people randomly showing up at Ollie Queen's place because they wanted Green Arrow.

He spent 30 years as cocky and in-your-face and 30 with his ID pretty much public knowledge, with a little crossover between those. When he stopped being bright and colourful is pretty much when everyone knew who he was, that joked about by Denny O'Neil, strongly hinted at with Elliott S! Maggin, and make clear outright with Mike Grell.

More recent takes have blended different aspects but the original character is nothing akin to what you're suggesting.

Here's some history of the character for you: http://www.cbr.com/the-history-of-green-arrow-from-golden-age-to-arrow/

All roads lead to truth if you're willing to travel honestly.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


Originally posted by skyhawk0:
He was bright and colourful in his original comics appearances, showy and anything but shadowy, fighting crime for the fun of it and expecting adulation for it. He had a secret identity but beyond that, he wasn't a man of mystery.

The shadowy, mysterious figure came about with Mike Grell, who basically threw away any pretence of a secret identity, with people randomly showing up at Ollie Queen's place because they wanted Green Arrow.


From the website you linked I see this:


Together with writer Ed Herron, comic book legend Jack Kirby presented a new Silver Age origin for the jade bowman in 1958’s “Adventure Comics” #250. The new continuity stated that Green Arrow had originally operated alone and didn’t meet Roy or recruit him as Speedy until after he was already established as a famous hero. In “The Green Arrow’s First Case,” Ollie explained to Roy his origins — a wealthy playboy, Ollie Queen is on his yacht one night when he accidentally falls overboard (as you do). Oliver makes his way to the deserted Starfish Island and realizes he’s stranded.

Ollie makes a makeshift bow and arrow, spending months developing archery and other skills to survive. To camouflage himself while hunting small game, he uses what he can to make a dark green costume that looks not unlike Robin Hood. He also develops several trick arrows to help him achieve various purposes.

Eventually, Ollie sees a nearby freighter and swims out to it, but then realizes that the ship is being taken over by mutineers. Quickly rubbing some grease around his eyes to form a mask, Ollie springs into action saves the ship. Realizing he’s pretty good at fighting evil with the skills he learned on the island, he dubs himself Green Arrow and begins leading a double life.


Which is more or less exactly like the first two seasons of 'Arrow', which is also what I've described, a superhero working from behind the scenes, in the shadows, not making himself publicly known.

There are obviously different incarnations of the Green Arrow but the most intriguing by far is the one of cloak and daggers, not the Batmanesque version ala the 1960s Batman TV series spoof.

With pretty much any superhero that's been around for decades, there are so many versions to go with, it's impossible to tie it down to one specific interpretation while encompassing all the traits and background stories. Here's my problem though, they need to pick a version and stick with it, not go all across the board and showcase each incarnation, which is what they're doing now. It comes down to lack of consistency, continuity, at this point the story's all over the map and it's becoming a watered down version of who the Green Arrow is, or at least was when he was first introduced in the first two seasons. What I see now is merely a shell of the former Green Arrow and it's really too bad because this series had the potential to be up there amongst 'Smallville' as perhaps the best superhero TV series ever, but as it stands and devolves, it's not going to have that lasting legacy unless they drastically change the writing of the show and stop appealing to the politically correct crowd, social media and the associated fan service.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

I'm not sure why you're quoting my comments about the original incarnation followed by the description of the revised Silver Age origin that happened much later. I was replying to your erroneous comment that "For 30 years that wasn't the case though, so going by the original comics, he was still a shadowy, mysterious figure."

But no, even the Silver Age take was not like the first two seasons of Arrow at all. The Silver Age version was campy and jokey. Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams changed that, completely revising him as an activist liberal with goatee, rather than the devil-may-care version that existed until then.

There are many issues with the show, sure, but I addressed your comments about the comics. You've done a complete 180°, going from saying the show was "incongruous with the comic book version" to now saying they're doing all the comics interpretations.

All roads lead to truth if you're willing to travel honestly.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


Originally posted by skyhawk0:
I'm not sure why you're quoting my comments about the original incarnation followed by the description of the revised Silver Age origin that happened much later. I was replying to your erroneous comment that "For 30 years that wasn't the case though, so going by the original comics, he was still a shadowy, mysterious figure."


It's pretty self-explanatory, it clearly explains him as being someone who hides his identity, became a skilled fighter who fights crime, you said he wasn't, I showed an excerpt which shows that he was.

As for pulling a 180, I've done no such thing. I've maintained from the start that the way they're portraying the Green Arrow has changed drastically from how it all began. He was a lone fighter, very serious, now it's more or less the opposite, it's very campy, he's constantly fighting as part of this big team, his secret identity isn't really a priority since pretty much everyone easily finds out who he is, etc. I was talking about the more serious interpretation of the show, that's how it started, and that's how it should've stayed. I was referencing the equivalent comic book version of that, now granted I didn't know the exact time frame of that version, but that's the one I was clearly comparing the show to because that's how the TV series adapted the comics.

The show's all over the map with its interpretations and it's hard to tell who Oliver and the Green Arrow are supposed to be. Lack of consistency to the character and no sense of direction. I'm not arguing about the comic book history, I'm specifically talking about the TV show's adaption of the similar comic book equivalent era.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

WTF?

You claimed "For 30 years that wasn't the case though, so going by the original comics, he was still a shadowy, mysterious figure."

Which is undeniably wrong.

He was not shadowy, nor mysterious. He was bright and colourful, cocky, and brash from the start. You didn't say "someone who hides his identity, became a skilled fighter who fights crime" and it's insane to pretend I said he wasn't that.

Note how I'm actually quoting things you said while you're just saying something entirely different and pretending that somehow magically changes what you previously wrote.

Yes, you did a complete 180°, as I spelled out.

And your latest excuse fails too. "He was a lone fighter, very serious" is not at all "how it all began." He started appearing in partnership with Speedy, joking constantly, playing games, and being anything but serious. Are you just unable to read?

I'm addressing the words you actually write. Don't blame me if the words you write don't connect at all to what you mean. Consider where the problem may lie there instead of just wasting more and more of my time by shifting your excuses.

You're all over the map and completely inconsistent in this conversation. It seems like you're just searching for excuses.

All roads lead to truth if you're willing to travel honestly.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


WTF?

You claimed "For 30 years that wasn't the case though, so going by the original comics, he was still a shadowy, mysterious figure."

Which is undeniably wrong.

He was not shadowy, nor mysterious. He was bright and colourful, cocky, and brash from the start. You didn't say "someone who hides his identity, became a skilled fighter who fights crime" and it's insane to pretend I said he wasn't that.

Note how I'm actually quoting things you said while you're just saying something entirely different and pretending that somehow magically changes what you previously wrote.


Look, I already said that I don't know the comic history of this character all that well. What I was referring to was the comic equivalent to what they began with in season 1, which according to you was the 70s version.


Yes, you did a complete 180°, as I spelled out.

And your latest excuse fails too. "He was a lone fighter, very serious" is not at all "how it all began." He started appearing in partnership with Speedy, joking constantly, playing games, and being anything but serious. Are you just unable to read?


No, I didn't. We're talking about two different things, I'm talking about my stance on the TV show, not the comics, I admit I was incorrect about the time frame of the comic version it's based on, but I've been talking about how the TV show deviated too much from the era in which it was based on, I never changed my stance on that.

For the 2nd part, I was talking about the first two seasons, NOT the comics. There's no need for insults, you're just misunderstanding what I wrote.


I'm addressing the words you actually write. Don't blame me if the words you write don't connect at all to what you mean. Consider where the problem may lie there instead of just wasting more and more of my time by shifting your excuses.

You're all over the map and completely inconsistent in this conversation. It seems like you're just searching for excuses.


No, you're misunderstanding because you're missing the context and you're too caught up in the comics to realize that I'm primarily talking about the TV series and how I'm referencing the darker, more serious source material of the GA that the show initially was inspired by, clearly it was NOT inspired by the jovial version that he began as. My stance never wavered. If you cannot comprehend that, that's on you.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

I'm hardly the one with the comprehension problem.

You told me I was wrong, I showed you I wasn't, and now you're saying you didn't know what you're talking about, but are still spitting low-grade and low-intelligence bile at me.

You're the one who claimed to be referencing the "referencing the equivalent comic book version of that", which I explained wasn't the case in the comics.

You're the one who commented about "the original comics" and have been wildly shifting goalposts since (as well as before).

If you can't write, that's not my fault. If you can't read, that's not my fault. If you can't man up to your mistakes, again, not my fault.

Sorry for trying to help.

All roads lead to truth if you're willing to travel honestly.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


I'm hardly the one with the comprehension problem.

You told me I was wrong, I showed you I wasn't, and now you're saying you didn't know what you're talking about, but are still spitting low-grade and low-intelligence bile at me.


That's funny coming from you since you're still failing to comprehend pretty basic concepts.

Let me explain it, again, so maybe you will understand. What I'm talking about is how the show has deviated from its original story-line and the comics that inspired it. Since you know comics surely you understand the concept that TV series and movies are almost never adapted exactly the way it was originally written, it's not the same dialogue and circumstances, no matter how similar a show can be, the filmed version is pretty much always different.

I never said the show was a carbon copy of a particular comic book issue or comic book era, what I'm talking about is how the show emulated and was inspired by a particular version of the Green Arrow, read NOT IDENTICAL. Does that make sense now? Then after that version, we began to see a change where it's no longer the GA fighting with one or maybe two people, it's a huge gang of followers, now the show's a far cry from what it once was.


You're the one who commented about "the original comics" and have been wildly shifting goalposts since (as well as before).

If you can't write, that's not my fault. If you can't read, that's not my fault. If you can't man up to your mistakes, again, not my fault.

Sorry for trying to help.


Wrong on all counts. I already freely admitted that I don't know all the eras and different versions of the Green Arrow but I know enough that there have been different versions of him, just like there have been of Batman, Superman, etc. and you already admitted that there is a dark version of him, which is what I was referring to. You can nitpick and be quarrelsome all you want but you're focusing on minutia and you're completely missing the bigger picture that I'm talking about.

Also, if your idea of helping is spewing insults because you're failing to grasp elementary concepts then you most definitely want to revisit the definition of "helping", 'cause what you're doing isn't it.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

I get it. I can't possibly dumb things down enough for you. You'll remain lost and insult me as a diversion because of it. You're not bright and you're completely dishonest. Wonderful combination.

I have no interest in dealing with more strawmen and excuses, thanks.

All roads lead to truth if you're willing to travel honestly.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

I've never seen you be rude before. Very surprised.

Good job Oscars! Hopefully Asian and Hispanic nominees in 2018!

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

I give what I get. I was replying to rudeness.

All roads lead to truth if you're willing to travel honestly.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

You've always been cool with me and we don't agree on anything. Carry on!

Good job Oscars! Hopefully Asian and Hispanic nominees in 2018!

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?



You and I don't agree, but you've always been dignified in addressing it. That, I appreciate.

All roads lead to truth if you're willing to travel honestly.

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

Just for the sake of clarity, he's the one who began the insults when he failed to reconcile his own inadequacies, then when I called him out on it, his trolling flared up.

Anyway, I can't abide his trolling anymore, he's clearly not interested in debate but rather prefers a smear campaign based on his own ignorance and lack of discernment.

Back on topic, here's hoping that the writers pay attention to the fans and change the course that they're currently on!


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?

As an aside, regardless of how the character originated in the comics, he debuted as a grounded character in a reality much like our own. What the show has become now is much less realistic. I don't think it can go back when twice a year minimum aliens, speedsters, and time-travelers drop in.

Good job Oscars! Hopefully Asian and Hispanic nominees in 2018!

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


Originally posted by Educator07:
As an aside, regardless of how the character originated in the comics, he debuted as a grounded character in a reality much like our own. What the show has become now is much less realistic. I don't think it can go back when twice a year minimum aliens, speedsters, and time-travelers drop in.


I think that's a valid point, however, the show's still fairly young and can redeem itself over time, given the right guidance, story- and character-wise. It may take a season or two to move away from the shenanigans but it can be done.

Right now the show's all over the place with no sense of direction and it really can't go on like this for too long before fans realize that they're speeding out of control and the brakes are shot. Eventually this show'll crash 'n burn if they don't bail out and save themselves. It'll take time to heal the inflicted wounds of risky, testosterone driven car chases and the inevitable crashes, but it's doable with the proper care and repair.


There can be only one! -Connor Macleod

Re: Why Is Everyone A Superhero On This Show?


What the show has become now is much less realistic. I don't think it can go back when twice a year minimum aliens, speedsters, and time-travelers drop in.


Those types of characters appeared in a number of the Green Arrow comic books and in the comic books Prometheus has super strength and wears a helmet that can detect his opponent's every move during fights and other things. It is not those things that are the problem just like it wasn't magic that ruined Season 4. It is how the writers portray those characters and elements in the show which was the main problem along with continuity.

Damien Dhark for example is immortal now and has lived for hundreds of years thanks to the help of the Lazarus Pit but when they had Ra's al Ghul in the show he didn't have any powers at all...


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