Arrow : Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

... it's pretty funny when you think about it.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

Pretty funny when you think that Geoff Johns did not gladly sign-off on killing off Black Canary as played by Katie Cassidy. But dont worry a new Black Canary is making an appearance.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

The new one won't last. The backlash is going to be freaking huge especially because it will be introduced in an episode Katie will be in. It will be considered a double slap to the people who want the real black canary

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

Why would there be there any more backlash. Its not like LL from Earth 1 is making a reappearance. This is Black Siren, who is not the same as LL. It will Oliver honoring the wish of Earth 1 LL so she isnt the last Canary. Since she apparently forgot about her own sister. No one claimed that the Laurel in 5x10 will be the one who died in 4x18. Even when her return was announced it was said "she is alive and well". When a showrunner does not even bother to use the name of the character believe something is up. Especially with a show know for bait and switch cliffhangers in midseason finales. 3x09, 4x09, 5x09 all ended with that kind of cliffhanger that got turn upside down in the following midseason premiere.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

The backlash will be that the iconic character got killed and now a completly random character will be taking over the mantle. The black canary has always been a lance. They'd be beter off not making another black canary. Making one proves their excuse about no more story for Laurel was bs because any black canary story done for this new girl could have been done for Laurel. The fact that they had black siren was a way to kill Laurel and have a character become similar to the black canary but it seems they arent even smart enough to take that opportunity. She doesnt have to be a regular, but the black canary mantle if they actually respected the character would not go to some random person introduced in season five.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

Katie Cassidy was never gonna come back outside a few guest appearances. People seemed to have been blinded by the "series regular across Flash, Arrow and LOT" announcement and they actually thought it means more than occasional guest appearances. Barrowman didnt even know about it till it was announced online. Miller barely makes any appearances and Katie Cassidy most likely already completed her set on Arrow. Maybe she will have an appearance on Flash and LOT. This type of contract is way cheaper for the shows and i would expect more of this type of contracts in the future.

Comic and KC/LL fans were so insistent that Black Canary has a huge role in Green Arrow universe. Well looks like they get their chance for that. When you reduce a character just to a mask, that character is easily replaced.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

You miss the point. The iconic character is not just the black canary. Its the black canary who IS Laurel Lance. You cant have one without the other without people being mad. Im not saying they should have made Katie a regular again, but they shouldnt have a random be the black canary and they are going to get hate for it.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

Just being pedantic here: "Dinah Lance" is the prerequisite for a Black Canary, at least in the vast majority of present or past realities.

Variations of the above include:
* Dinah Drake
* Dinah Drake Lance
* Dinah Lance
* Dinah Laurel Lance

Only acceptable exception to the above rule is Olivia Queen.

Unless a possible new Black Canary follows this pattern, the hate will be enough to create a Sith empire.

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Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

You are right I should have included Dinah haha, but I'm glad you get the point. By introducing this new character it proves the writers did not understand why they got the backlash they did so they are just going to have to accept even more.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

What really baffles me is that Guggenheim is not someone who is outside the world of comics. He has written stuff in the past, for both DC and Marvel. He should know better.

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Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

If his Agents of SHIELD run is anything to go by he's as lazy in comics as he is in tv. I was told his AoS comic was just JL: Tower of Babel but with Coulson and co.

I see another joker on the news telling me to play the fool.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

Tower of Babel is one of my favorite reads, it's no surprise the unimaginative Guggenheim tried to copy it.

I just tend the bar.

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Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...


Guggenheim is just trolling at this stage. "You wanted the Black Canary back on the show? Here she is".

Trolling with panache! Gotta love it! *chuckles*

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...


Katie Cassidy was never gonna come back outside a few guest appearances. People seemed to have been blinded by the "series regular across Flash, Arrow and LOT" announcement and they actually thought it means more than occasional guest appearances.


Uhm, can you blame them? Why announce her as a regular across all series if she's gonna be a guest star appearing once or twice in one show or another? There will be backlash. A lot of people started fantasizing that the reason she's gonna be a "regular" and "come back" (like Mericle said) is because Black Siren would become the new Black Canary. The fans are not ready to watch a random woman become the new Canary, especially not when Laurel - no matter which one - was just there. Don't pretend you don't get that.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

I understand that people would think that, but from my POV, when I heard "regular across three shows" I heard "Jack of all trades, master of none".

If a character is only going to be popping in and out of the show then they aren't going to be a priority of any of the writers, who are most likely going to be concentrating on their own regulars who are there full time. Also with that kind of contract, scheduling conflicts and trying to co ordinate scripts (when they've already just done a massive cross over) makes it hard for any of them to have a consistent "popping up on a different show each week/month" presence.

Miller didn't want to be a full time regular on LOT this season so PTPB gave him a "cross show contract". I know its different for different actors but since that was used to give him a very much reduced presence but still keep him around if/when available. It has been clear that the writers were struggling with giving JB something to do on Arrow, hence the fancy sounding contract which means they don't even have to have him around as much as his appearances in S4.

Add to that they killed LL and *then* said "oh don't worry she's totally got this fancy contract. It didn't seem like they had a huge amount of plans to use her long term on Arrow. And that's without the possibilities that KC herself asked not to be written in too often if she wasn't going to be there full time as she would want to explore other projects. But who knows what's going to happen down the road in a comic book universe.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

We share the same POV. I completely agree with you and I never really fooled myself. I never thought she would be an actual regular and appear in several episodes of each show, but I know for a fact that a lot of people did. The fact that they made the contract appear so fancy, that Wendy and Greg keep saying things like "she will be back, we're so glad she'll be back alive and well, we have crazy ways to bring her back and she'll be playing different roles throughout the season" is gonna backfire. And now we even have Stephen hyping people about Laurel's return and promoting it that way. When the episode airs, it ends up being Black Siren and she gets taken away by the end right before a new Canary is revealed, people will get mad, no doubt about it.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...


When you reduce a character just to a mask, that character is easily replaced.


👆

"Never wrestle with a pig. You get filthy and besides, the pig likes it." Cyrus Ching

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

There was no backlash it was the same few people who started sending death threats
Ratings didn't even go down after she died

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

Ratings didn't go down? Did lowest rated finale ever not qualify as down? Or this season having its lowest average ever? You can argue over why but you cant deny that the ratings ARE down from when she was on the show.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

Define the 'real' Black Canary, is it Katie Cassidy. ;) May be they will make the new one more real than the 'real' :D

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

The "real" black canary in both comics and television show is Dinah Laurel Lance. Heck, unlike even the green arrow in comics, there has never been another woman called the black canary. If they think the fans are going to accept the change to a random, they have another thing coming.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

You're wrong. 'Laurel' was an addition from a retcon in the 80s. The Black Canary, Dinah Laurel Lance, was a second-generation superhero after her mother, Dinah Drake Lance.

All roads lead to truth if you're willing to travel honestly.

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But it has ALWAYS been a lance. Either Laurel or her mother. Its never been a complete random character.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

The real Black Canary is the on Legends of Tomorrow and now called the White Canary.

Hell, Evelyn is a more real Black Canary than Laurel.

I don't care about a troll who doesn't pay for his opinion telling me how to review movies.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...


The real Black Canary is the on Legends of Tomorrow and now called the White Canary.


Because as everyone knows the Black Canary is a bisexual assassin? Sara's about as far from the actual Black canary character from the comics as you can get.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

No, that would be Laurel. Try again.

I don't care about a troll who doesn't pay for his opinion telling me how to review movies.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...


No, that would be Laurel.


It can't be Laurel because she's much closer to who Black Canary is in terms of personality and motivation than Sara is.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

Nope, Laurel is just a whiny idiot that deserved to die. Sara actually had the skills, relationship with Sin, chemistry with Oliver, etc.

Or are you suggesting the comics Canary was a retarded bitch who's motivation was to make everything as difficult for everyone as possible?

I don't care about a troll who doesn't pay for his opinion telling me how to review movies.

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Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

Still closer than Laurel was, try again.

I don't care about a troll who doesn't pay for his opinion telling me how to review movies.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...


Laurel is just a whiny idiot that deserved to die.


And yet so many took issue with her death so clearly that's not the case.


Sara actually had the skills, relationship with Sin, chemistry with Oliver, etc.


Those aren't exactly Black Canary's defining attributes.


Or are you suggesting the comics Canary was a retarded bitch who's motivation was to make everything as difficult for everyone as possible?



Well she was never a member of the LOS, she was never bisexual, she tried to avoid killing whenever possible and she didn't crime because she had a past she needed to atone for?

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

I don't often agree with this guy, but I have to ask: Aside from the name and the cop father, what DOES Laurel have in common with her comic counterpart?

"Never wrestle with a pig. You get filthy and besides, the pig likes it." Cyrus Ching

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...


And yet so many took issue with her death so clearly that's not the case.


What, like five people? Doesn't sound like a lot to me.


Those aren't exactly Black Canary's defining attributes.


Actually, they are, try again.


Well she was never a member of the LOS, she was never bisexual, she tried to avoid killing whenever possible and she didn't crime because she had a past she needed to atone for?


So you admit Sara was closer to the comics Canary than Laurel.

I don't care about a troll who doesn't pay for his opinion telling me how to review movies.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...


What, like five people?


Have you been living under a rock?


Actually, they are,



This may come as quit a shock but they're not. Especially her "relationship with Sin"


So you admit Sara was closer to the comics Canary than Laurel.



I literally described the exact opposite in the post you've quoted. How in the holy hell does anything you just referenced from my quote make her closer to comics Canary?.

Sara is about as far from the comics Canary as possible.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...


Have you been living under a rock?


No, have you?


This may come as quit a shock but they're not. Especially her "relationship with Sin"


This may come as a shock but they did. Try again.


I literally described the exact opposite in the post you've quoted. How in the holy hell does anything you just referenced from my quote make her closer to comics Canary?.

Sara is about as far from the comics Canary as possible.


And in doing so demonstrated than Laurel is as far from the comics Canary as possible. Good going, retard.

I don't care about a troll who doesn't pay for his opinion telling me how to review movies.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

Geoff even liked a tweet by Stephen regarding laurels death so he knew

Ps killing off tv characters only makes his job easier

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Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

He also killed The Green Arrow.

I just tend the bar.

Re: Guggenheim killed the Black Canary...

I'm waiting for a better adaptation of the Black Canary. Hopefully on the DCEU's upcoming project Gotham Sirens City.
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