Spider-Man: No Way Home : Two Questions (SPOILERS)

Two Questions (SPOILERS)

First off, great movie. Loved it. However, there are a couple things I'm curious about regarding the end of it.

1.) When the spell to forget sets in, the next scene shows the Bugle talking about how Spidey should reveal himself. That got me thinking. Why does the Bugle's own footage and everyone's video of him also forget? Wouldn't they still have that footage? And if they don't have the stories anymore, wouldn't they be awfully confused about their lack of footage from that period?

2.) The bad guys are plucked from their imminent demises in their respective universes. When they get cured, what happens when they get sent back? Do they return to the exact moment before they die, simply to die again? And take Goblin for example… if he doesn't die, then what becomes of the events that follow? Harry's need for revenge no longer happens? Spider-Man 2 and 3 have a different series of events play out instead? Either way, Raimi's Peter still remembers Harry dying in his arms, so it seems like stuff doesn't change.

idk. Thoughts?

Happiness is a warm… yes it is… GUN!

Re: Two Questions (SPOILERS)

1) Huge plothole. Just don't think about it too much.

2) Huge plothole. Nevermind the Time Variance Authority because they are toast so who cares.

3) Better not to think about it at all.

Relax, faggot.

Re: Two Questions (SPOILERS)

2) Huge plothole. Nevermind the Time Variance Authority because they are toast so who cares.

That's not a plot hole.

Satan is a little man.

Re: Two Questions (SPOILERS)

It is.

Do you have anything else to display your stupidity or will you rest on your laurels?

Relax, faggot.

Re: Two Questions (SPOILERS)

It's not.

And don't be rude. We're just discussing a movie here.

Satan is a little man.

Re: Two Questions (SPOILERS)

No, other people are discussing a movie. You're interjecting rude stupidity as if you are an authority. You aren't. Move along.

Relax, faggot.

Re: Two Questions (SPOILERS)

I forgive your rudeness.

But it's still not a plot hole despite your behavior.

Satan is a little man.

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Re: Two Questions (SPOILERS)

And take Goblin for example… if he doesn't die, then what becomes of the events that follow? Harry's need for revenge no longer happens? Spider-Man 2 and 3 have a different series of events play out instead?

You should take this idea to Sony. It's the perfect way to reboot the Toby Spider-Man movies and act like the 3rd one never happened.

Re: Two Questions (SPOILERS)

1.) When the spell to forget sets in, the next scene shows the Bugle talking about how Spidey should reveal himself. That got me thinking. Why does the Bugle's own footage and everyone's video of him also forget? Wouldn't they still have that footage? And if they don't have the stories anymore, wouldn't they be awfully confused about their lack of footage from that period?

This logic is related to the very question I was going to ask.

We know that the spell did not affect time as said by Dr. Strange. It only affected memory. It didn't go back in time.

With that said…

Wouldn't Spider-man still have the nano-tech suit given to him by Iron Man? Wouldn't he still have Tony Starks inheritance?

More, you mention the news videos, but wouldn't MJ have pictures/videos of her and Peter on her phone? This is 2021, after all.

How does Happy Hogan have such fond memories of Aunt May without remembering Peter considering Peter was there throughout all their relationship? How does Happy remember his house dates with May if Peter made dinner that night? Does he remember it as May making the dinner?

In order to forget Peter, those closest to him would have to remember something else in his place to fill that gap.

It makes no sense if time isn't used.


2.) Either way, Raimi's Peter still remembers Harry dying in his arms, so it seems like stuff doesn't change.

That thought is a fallacy. You involved time. There was no time travel.

This thought implies that Peter (now in Holland's world) would be shaped by new events that may have happened in their world. That's not the case - they crossed dimensions; they didn't time travel. So they'd remember exactly the same as what has happened, regardless of what happens in Holland's universe. My guess is that they aren't transported back in the same spot they were before - but a new spot, cured. It isn't time travel: so they're not necessarily going to appear in the same spot in battle at which they left the universe.

I Was Just Looking For Someone Who Could See What I See, Feel What I Feel.

Re: Two Questions (SPOILERS)

Regardless of their sentiments that there isn’t time travel, time is still a factor somehow. Goblin, Doc Ock, And Sandman come from different times, and Toby Peter remembers everything as it happened in his 3 movies. So if he remembers people dying, then they show up later alive, how’s that make any sense? How can the writers justify them being alive when the events have already transpired in Peter’s point of view? Does Toby Peter go back to an altered reality? Thus essentially a “fixed” universe?

Happiness is a warm… yes it is… GUN!

Re: Two Questions (SPOILERS)

Since crossing the multiverse does not accelerate the space-time continuum, as time travel would, but operates under its own space-time continuum, then, I believe, there would be no altered realities.

Galaxy > Time > Multiverse. One time travels within their own universe, but it's an impossibility and oxymoron to time time travel through a multiverse, as time is not linear nor consistent across universes.

When Tobey goes back, the events (from his perspective) would have been exactly the same. Ock, dead. Goblin, dead.

Dock Ock would go back, in the same spot where he left off, now cured, and possibly stop whatever evil he's doing.

These two, however, would enter a different multiverse ala "timeline" respective of each other. Even though Dock Ock and Tobey are from the same universe, Tobey, Doc Ock, Sandman, and Green Goblin are respectively returning to their *own* version of their universe - i.e., a multiverse of their universe.

I Was Just Looking For Someone Who Could See What I See, Feel What I Feel.

Re: Two Questions (SPOILERS)

Part of me is of the mindset that they're treating each Toby Spider-Man movie as its own separate universe. Such that Goblin is from the Spider-Man 1 universe, Ock is from the Spider-Man 2 universe, and Toby & Sandman are from the Spider-Man 3 universe. Very similar, but not exactly the same. So when each one goes back cured to their own respective universe, it doesn't really affect Toby's universe at all, because Goblin and Ock would still be dead in his. And since Sandman never really died in SM3, him still being alive makes sense.

Perhaps this multiversal plucking is the reason these could be considered separate universes to begin with, because them being pulled and replaced back could be causing the new universes splinter off instead of being considered as one universe. That's the best way my mind can figure it. No time travel.

Happiness is a warm… yes it is… GUN!

Re: Two Questions (SPOILERS)

Such that Goblin is from the Spider-Man 1 universe, Ock is from the Spider-Man 2 universe, and Toby & Sandman are from the Spider-Man 3 universe.

Well no…all the Tobey movies happened in one universe.

What I’m suggesting is,

When Tobey goes back, only he will be aware he just crossed a multiverse. No one else will know. Not Sandman, not Dock Ock. Everything will be the same.

When Sandman goes back, only he will be aware he just crossed a universe. Tobey won’t know. Everything else will be the same.

All the Tobey characters are going back to they Tobey-universe where only one person (them) is aware of what just happened.

I Was Just Looking For Someone Who Could See What I See, Feel What I Feel.

Re: Two Questions (SPOILERS)

Yes, the Toby movies WERE one universe until the pluckening happened. Toby would still remember the events of 1 & 2, but if you take characters out of one fate and return them to the “same” reality, one in which they were DEAD and are now to be presumed to be ALIVE and cured (otherwise what’s the point of this whole premise?), then in no would this be considered the same timeline or universe or reality or whatever you want to call it.

If Goblin goes back to his world (only following SM1), then he can be alive and cured and Harry will never go crazy, yada yada. It won’t affect anyone else’s point of view of what happens in their respective world. So if Toby goes back to his universe (SM3 world (in which the events of SM1 and 2 still happened exactly the same mind you)), Goblin would still be dead. I’d say the Spider-Men aren’t changing their own worlds at all, but rather the worlds of the baddies. It is in tune with their characters to be selfless like that.

Happiness is a warm… yes it is… GUN!

Re: Two Questions (SPOILERS)

I think the spell changes everything to remove his name from any kind of memory and by default, also the video.

I think they were just dumping the criminals in their original universes. Clearly Spider-Man is anti-immigration if he just wants to send refugees back to where they came from. (Hmmm…make Spider-Man great again?)

Hey Diddler, Diddler….the cat and the fiddler LOL

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