My Favorite Wife : Cary and Randolph's Rings

Cary and Randolph's Rings

I'm wondering if anyone else noticed the matching rings that Randolph and Cary were wearing during the moviethey were each wearing bands on their left pinky fingers. I find this kind of interesting considering Randolph and Cary were said to have had a romantic relationship. Just wondering if anyone else caught that!


"Let's get down to brass tacks. How much for the ape?" -Raoul Duke

Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings

no i didnt, but i will be looking out for it next viewing. its one of those stories that wont go away isnt it? being married in those days was no gurantee either that you werent.

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Oh I know! It's amazing, huh? Nowadays, divorce occurs more than marriage. People don't feel the need to remain as loyal as once did!
Yeah, definitely check it out next time you watchI'm reading a new biography on Grant, but haven't gotten to the Scott chapter yet so if I read anything, I'll letcha know!

"Let's get down to brass tacks. How much for the ape?" -Raoul Duke

Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings

I'm watching the film at this moment and can barely make out a ring on Cary's finger, so how can anyone say it's identical to the one Randolph was wearing, which is much more visable. In fact, if anything the ring Randolph is wearing looks just like the one the fake "Adam" was wearing in the prior scene. Many men wore/wear pinky rings. I think you guys are reading WAY too much into it.

Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings


I think you guys are reading WAY too much into it.
If you think they're reading a lot into it, you should see the NC-17-rated fantasy that's been playing in a continuous loop in my head!! hehe.gif

Carpe DO'em!!

Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings

cote,

It's VERY visible in the opening scene when he hands the judge the brief, and starts pointing out different things written within the brief.

Scott's ring is not a matching ring.
Grant's is very very thin.
Scott's ring most visible when they all go to court to get Ellen declared legally alive and annul his marriage to Bianca.

I know they roomed together for a long time when they were both new to Hollywood, and the talk was they were more than roommates.
Hard to believe, when you realize Grant was married 5 times.

Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings

Liz01219 wrote:

Hard to believe, when you realize Grant was married 5 times.
Not if you look at what his marriages were like. Of the first four marriages, three were "poor, nasty, brutish, and short." The fourth was "poor, nasty, brutish" and over long before they finally got a divorce.

The quality of Grant's marriages is one of the more convincing arguments that Grant was gay. His marriages did not break up because he was fooling around with other women.

The fifth was when Grant was quite old.

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http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-06-07

Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings

pplikk


His longest marriage was to the actress Betsy Drake which lasted 10 or 12 yrs.

I don't know where I read this, or heard this, but I guess after Grant's death Drake was interviewed about the possibility that he could be gay, and she responded with, paraphrasing, "I have no idea because all I know is that we *beep* all day, but I supposed he could have been bi sexual"

Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings

Liz01219 wrote:

His longest marriage was to the actress Betsy Drake which lasted 10 or 12 yrs.
There is an interview with Betsy as an extra on a DVD of a Cary Grant film. I believe it is here, but I am not sure.

http://www.amazon.com/Bringing-Up-Baby-Two-Disc-Special/dp/B0006Z2KX4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433858606&sr=8-1&keywords=Bringing+Up+Baby+%282-DVD+Special+Edition%2C+1938%29

I believe that your quote is from that interview. It is not a horror story, but the marriage, as a real marriage, did not last more than a couple of years. For whatever reason we can both speculate, but it is just that they were not quick about getting divorced unlike his first two marriages and his fourth.

I do not remember anything in the interview to suggest that Grant was gay, but I also don't remember any reason to believe that Grant could have an intimate long-term relationship with a woman.

That is true of a lot of men, but I think of Hollywood marriages as typically breaking up because of another woman. There was something about a brief affair with Sophia Lorren, but in general Grant was not linked to other women as far as I know.

My point is only that Grant's five marriages do not argue that he wasn't gay.


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http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-06-07

Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings

I forgot about his affair with Sophia Loren.

That affair started when they made "Houseboat"

I can't remember if it was Loren or Grant's interview, but I think it was Loren's.

She was also seeing Carlo Ponti at the time, and I believe Grant told her she had to make a choice, him or Carlo and we know she chose Carlo.

I think, not sure, part of the reason was Ponti and she had more in common, both Italian born, both Catholics, and I suppose some other things too.

Anyway, I could care less what he was.
I just love the way he's entertained me throughout the years!!!

He and Stewart were my favorite male actors, and if it hadn't been for my mother, who was a huge movie buff, I never would have known either one of them in their earlier films. I had this thing about not wanting to watch black and white movies!!

It was my mother who told me about the rumors of Grant and Scott.

The affair of Gable and Loretta Young and the baby they had.

Plenty more probably that for the moment I've forgetten.

Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings

Liz01219 wrote:

Anyway, I could care less what he was.
I don't either. I wish it would just go away. I don't get into it unless someone is arguing that there is no evidence that he was gay because that is not true.

I don't think that his being married five times is evidence either way, but the quality of the marriages is upsetting.


It was my mother who told me about the rumors of Grant and Scott.
You can find out a lot more about it including what might be regarded as softcore gay porn of Grant and Scott on the Internet.

If he was gay, it is quite a sad story.

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http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-06-07

Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings

Nowadays, divorce occurs more than marriage


Um yeah! I get what you mean though.

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lol yeah i guess that doesn't make too much sense now does it? jeez people on this website are so petty and irritating.
i post this and one guy shoots down my idea right away by saying i'm looking way too into it(i was just stating a fact that i found interesting!) and the next has to point out my small error.

almost every board i go to anymore is like cool for the first couple threads, then right away some (choose one or more) smug/rude/condescending/thoughtless/angry/stupid person starts behaving badly and the whole thing turns into an argument. It is ridiculous.

Ok I'm done now. Thanks.






"Let's get down to brass tacks. How much for the ape?" -Raoul Duke

Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings


almost every board i go to anymore is like cool for the first couple threads, then right away some (choose one or more) smug/rude/condescending/thoughtless/angry/stupid person starts behaving badly and the whole thing turns into an argument. It is ridiculous.
I know what you mean. Check out this thread I started (with what I thought was an innocuous, albeit smarta$$ed comment) and all the flaming out that followed:

http://imdb.com/board/10840979/board/thread/94600559?d=94684278&p =1#94684278

And the first of many huffy replies: http://imdb.com/board/10840979/board/thread/94600559?d=94684278&p =1#94684278




"Well, for once the rich white man is in control!" C. M. Burns

Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings

Why are so many people happy to believe the stories about Loretta Young (allegedly servicing whole teams of USC and/or UCLA athletes); Joan Crawford (proudly carrying her reputation for being first in line to welcome actors new to manhood or to Hollywood, including the 16-year-old Jackie Cooper; later in her career, cruising up the PCH in her flashy convertible, picking up "rough trade"); and other actresses. Since poor Rock Hudson died of AIDS, few remain in denial about his sexuality. The same is true even of good old flaming Liberace. But many still can't accept the notion that romantic Hollywood icon Cary Grant and manly cowboy star Randolph Scott might have been physically intimate, despite the fact they lived together in "bachelor paradise" for years. I don't know or care what they did or did not do together. I've often thought that if all gay people (and bisexuals) simultaneously revealed themselves publicly, the rest of the population could finally grow up after getting past the shock, of course.

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They got secretly married in Mexico.

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Take juan's word for it he was bridesmaid at the ceremony (and looked great in that pink taffeta gown).

"Take 'em to Missouri"

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they might as well have gotten marriedthey lived together as "roommates" for 12 years a lot longer than some marriages last.

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I think the only one who believes the story about Loretta Young is gullible you and perhaps the fibber who told you about it.

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well thought out, and well written. thank you jjeelgar.

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After reading your post while watching the movie that I previously taped/DVR-ed, I did notice both men's pinky rings during the courtroom scene at the end when Randolph Scott leaned against the counter in front of the judge's bench and also later when Cary Grant was holding a handkerchief to his bloodied nose. Who knows if it means anything, but it's an interesting point.

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Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings

An interesting web page is at:

http://www.bathhouseaddict.com/Bathhouses/CaryGrantRandolphScott.html

and see especially the last paragraph.

In the scene where Cary watches Randy diving, Cary has a most peculiar expression on his face which gives the scene and maybe the whole film an odd, ambiguous flavor.

Though they played the film again on TCM maybe a couple of nights ago, I didn't watch it and haven't seen it since quite a while ago.

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Right, but I'm going to guess that even though it's fine if Randolph and Cary went together, chances are that they didn't because those most likely represent School, Sport or Club rings more than anything because when we were discussing this on Randolph's board, someone suggests that these are not romantic rings because her grandfather wore one.

That's enough proof right there to indicate that these two were only great friends and roommates, and more proof lies in the fact that they both denied romance and married females and avoided the viscious press for starting rumors. This lady's grandfather had grandchildren, right?

It would be rather implausible to get the idea that those two would wear each other's together rings on film after going though all of that trouble to keep denying rumoros and marrying females and fighting over the wonderful Irene in the presence of the lovely Gail.

But if it were the case that they actually did like each other, then that is fine with me and probably Irene and Gail, too, because Randolph and Cary are both great and the extra temptation would only serve to prove them far better actors than even good fans can imagine.
      _           _|_|_        ()        ooO(_)Ooo

Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings

NicholasAquaHedges wrote:

Right, but I'm going to guess that even though it's fine if Randolph and Cary went together, chances are that they didn't because those most likely represent School, Sport or Club rings more than anything because when we were discussing this on Randolph's board, someone suggests that these are not romantic rings because her grandfather wore one.


In the 1950s and 1960s,[5] these rings became a self-identifying symbol in the gay community,[6] worn by both gay men and lesbians. [7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinky_ring#cite_note-Gage2002-5
A pinky ring did not have a set significance in the way that a wedding ring does. They were used by different people for different purposes including, I am sure, decoration.

As far as I can tell, the two rings are not identical. Cary Grant's seems much thinner, but I don't believe that matters at all.


That's enough proof right there to indicate that these two were only great friends and roommates
I cannot believe that you are actually arguing that if pinky rings did not always indicate gays, then the fact that they were wearing pinky rings is conclusive proof that they weren't gay. That does not even begin to make sense.


married females
I take it you do not have even a cursory knowledge of Cary Grant's marriages. #1, #2 and #4 were "poor, nasty, brutish, and short." Grant admitted in an interview that his first two wives accused him of being homosexual. Marriage #3, Betsy Drake, was "poor, nasty, brutish, and on paper, longer." According to an interview with her included as an extra on one of Cary Grant's films, the marriage as a marriage did not last very long, but it was quite a while before they got a divorce. Marriage #5 was when Cary Grant was something like 77.


It would be rather implausible to get the idea that those two would wear each other's together rings on film after going though all of that trouble to keep denying rumoros
As I said, pinky rings did not have a set significance and so they could be used as an in group joke that was quite deniable. If, in 1940, the "gay" significance of pinky rings was confined to Hollywood or to communities of actors, there was little risk of exposure. The usage seems to have only become widespread later on.

This movie was made in the middle of the "Beach House" period. To anyone in Hollywood, the whole movie is an in group joke if only because of the rumors. Two men who are linked romantically competing over a woman is funny whether the rumors are true or not. But certainly funnier if they are true.

P. S. When a few years earlier, Cary grant famously said, "because I just went gay," the censors had no problem with it because the usage that he was referring to was confined to homosexual communities and their friends. They were the only ones who got the joke.

Grand was not saying, by the way, that he just became a homosexual. Gay was not used as a general term for homosexuals at the time. He was saying that he just became a fairy, a subgroup of extremely obvious and effeminate gay men, when he was asked why he was wearing women's clothing. He then jumps and flounces his arms, a stereotype.



Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings

You can see, in long shots, the details of small pinkie rings, well enough to determine that they're identical? Man, I wish I had your eyesight! I'm not denying that Grant and Scott were longtime lovers, since all evidence points to it, but I think it's absurd that your imagination is drifting so far as to be able to spot their rings as matching. Especially since Grant in particular was so paranoid about being outed, as late as the 1980s.

Re: Cary and Randolph's Rings

EliotTempleton wrote:

You can see, in long shots, the details of small pinkie rings, well enough to determine that they're identical?
I don't think that the rings are the same. That would've been too obvious.

I do believe that it is a quite deliberate in group joke, perhaps reflecting the fact that they both would've liked to acknowledge their relationship in public but couldn't. So they did it in a hidden way with plausible deniability. Just a suggestion.

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I was watching this movie for the first time in years (since having many gay friends and growing accustomed to seeing them in couples). The scene where Cary Grant/Nick is drying the perspiration from his forehead as he watches Randolph Scott ("Jonny Weismuller") on the trapeze and diving into the pool threw me! It was NOT the "Adam" and "Eve" on a desert isle I'd expect a husband to grow obsessed about, it's Randolph Scott on the trapeze he can't get out of his mind back at the office!

Googling it, I immediately found a beautiful story about the 2 in a silly named website http://www.homohistory.com/2013/07/cary-grant-and-randolph-scott-hollywood.html with photos of the 2.they were a devoted coupleyou can see the attraction and affection in the photos. Like any married couples of longstanding, these men look like they belong together. Unlike roommates, they SHARE their home. Grant had lived for several years with another uncloseted gay man before Scott, whom he lived with for 12 years beginning in 1932. So it was not just a one-time happenstance (which 12 vyears disproves as well)and they were friends all their lives, seen out together, and holding hands in a restaurant much later His marriages were in response to studio pressure. As were the later stories of the Bachelor Beachhouse. Mr. Blackwell, who lived with them for a time there reports they were a loving open couple in private.

There was one woman who was a close friend of Grant's, and publicly said to be close to becoming the next "Mres. Grant." She did not think he could have been gay, and cites as her reasoning, that "he'd pick her up on Sundays and take her out to the beachhouse for parties" I hate to say the obvious, but when you are in a relationship with a man who wants to marry you, yolu wake up at the beachhouse WITH him on Sunday morning, and you host the parties WITH him, not as a guest He was enjoying his weekends with his partner and friends they had in common, and then having parties afterward, on Sundays, for the others in his life. She spoke of how large the beachhouse was, so both men could live there apartI lived 3 blocks from there for 10 years and nothing there was largethe photos show what cozy rooms those homes had (many years ago the city stopped allowing private individuals from having homes on Santa Monica beachesthere are just too many people and such limited ocean front. In fact, decades passed before some very ritzy hotel/restaurant/spa businesses were allowed to build.

And the story of the days spent filming those pool scenes at the Huntington Hotel confirms they were a couple, not just roommates. When they arrived at the Hotel, together, they took just one room, and spent the time there openly as an affectionate couple, uninhibited, unashamed. Crew members apparently were surprised by their refusal to hide their relationship.

The fact they were open in front of cast and crew made it all the more obvious that the inside humor of the movie was intentionathe inability of former circus acrobat Cary Grant to get Randolph Scott on a trapeze out of his head in the office, and wiping perspiration from his brow the first time he sees him on the trapeze and diving into the pool. And when the judge declares Ellen alive, Nick and Bianca's marriage annulled, and Nick free to remarry Ellen, the judge says to Nick, "I don't know what you'll be doing with him, though" And he wags his thumb at Steven (Scott). LOL
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