Vikings : So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

So Floki hates Christians. Kills unarmed Athelstan without mercy but sympathizes with Muslims because he finds their religion intriguing? That's some anachronistic history right there.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Hirst is anti-Christian so he's always filmed blasphemy against the Christian faith even when it's opposite of history. Do you think he would try that with Islam? Do you think Hirst would film something that could even remotely be considered an insult to Islam?

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Seek help.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

If only.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

You need professional help.

"Relics of ancient times. Lonely cenotaphs. Standing along that melancholy tideland."

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Welcome to the politically correct world of TV.

Humankind cannot bear very much reality. ~T.S. Eliot

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

So what's wrong with being politically correct?

All said and done.it's just a 'nicer' way of referring to people and places. You know, like African American or Hispanic persons instead of *beep* or *beep* Or persons who are 'mentally challenged' instead of "retard".

Western society has "demonized" Muslim societies for a very long time. It's about time we acknowledged their contributions to the world.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

What's wrong with being politically correct is that it has morphed from "a nicer way of referring to people and places" to a poisonous mindset that attacks anyone who doesn't conform. Here's a nice list of what is wrong with political correctness, see if you honestly think any of it is defensible. http://listverse.com/2010/10/26/10-ridiculous-cases-of-political-correctness/

1. Xbox Livebanned Josh Moore for violating its gamers code of conduct. His offense? Filling out his Xbox Live profileMr. Moore lives inFORT GAY, West Virginia. As Microsoft says, the word gay is always offensive. Never mind that several US townships incorporate the word into their name, many people have Gay as a first or last name, and some homosexuals do identify themselves as gay.Fort Gay Mayor, David Thompson, tried to intervene, but was told that the citys name didnt matter; the word gay was inappropriate in any context.

2. Santa Clauses in Sydney, Australia, weretoldthat ho ho ho could frighten children and be derogatory to women. Why? Because it was too close to the Americanslang for prostitute. Instead, the Santas were instructed to lower their voices and say Ha ha ha.

3. Dennis Tafoya, director of the LA County affirmative action office, issued a memo describing an exhaustive search for any computer equipment labeled master and slave. He also stated that all offending labels should be replaced with more appropriate terminology. Purchasing officials subsequently requested that all suppliers cease using labels deemed unacceptable and offensivethe first step of a creeping labeling ban.

4. Uncle Remus is the American Aesop, and were losing this literary treasure in our libraries and cinemas. For example, Disneys delightful Song of the South hasnt been in official circulation since 2001, and likely wont be anytime soon. The general objection to the film (which features the Uncle Remus stories) lies in the portrayal of African-Americans in the live action sequences. Many mistakenly believe that the movie sugarcoats slavery, but, if any of the self-appointed PC censors had actually READ the book, theyd know that the Uncle Remus stories are set AFTER the Civil War and AFTER the abolition of slavery.

5. Administrators at a California high school sent five students home after they refused to remove their American flag T-shirts on Cinco de Mayo, the Mexican Day of Independence. Thats right, kids, you cant wear your countrys flag in your country, lest it offend someone celebrating the holiday of a different country.

6. US Army Psychologist Nidal Malik Hasan killed 13 people (one pregnant) by opening fire on a US Army base, all while shouting God is Great in Arabic (a misappropriation of Muslim prayers, but used in the 9/11 attacks). How could anything like this happen on a military base? Unbelievably, the Pentagon knew of Hasans emails to radical imams, and his increasingly bizarre policy recommendations for Muslims serving in the US armed forces. Many coworkers and colleagues referred to him as a ticking time bomb. Red flags appeared everywhere showing that Hasan was seriously conflicted about being a Muslim in the US military, but the Armys middle management ignored these signals because they were afraid to be accused of profiling somebody. That PC fear may have cost 13 people their lives.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Zanza8

Thank you for your short, but effective list.

It seems that it is still OK to mock and denigrate Italian, Catholics in this country.



"A stitch in time, saves your embarrassment." (RIP Ms. Penny LoBello)

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

You're welcome, Maya. Notice how the crickets are out to answer the items on that list? Just like always, the morons defend the concept of political correctness but when faced with concrete examples, they run and hide. To put it in a nutshell, an appropriate receptacle, you could program a robot to follow all the rules of political correctness and it would be a very polite robot, but politeness is not the same as goodness.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Well Zanza, I wasn't referring to the "ridiculous" cases of political correctness, just the decency of referring to people and places with respect.

America is a multicultural conglomerate of many peoples, cultures and religions. It's one of the things that make America great, our ability to live together whilst respecting each other's differences. Very few countries are able to do this.

There are a few examples you mention that I can somewhat defend, although this particular board of a TV show is probably not the appropriate place to do so since it has nothing to do with Floki's responses in the last episode.

Still, in your second example, I see nothing wrong with saying "Ha Ha Ha" instead of "Ho Ho Ho". Why would anyone object to that?

And in your fourth example of the Uncle Remus stories it matters little that the Uncle Remus stories are set AFTER the civil war and AFTER the abolishment of slavery because black Americans were still treated as slaves or "non-persons" for decades after the abolishment of slavery, mostly because of the Jim Crow laws, and so yes, these stories DO sugarcoat their suffering of this time period.

And in your fifth example I would argue that they are NOT celebrating their country (most are American citizens born and raised right
here) rather, they are celebrating their CULTURE. So yes, it is infringing on their right to do so. The five students that refused to remove their American flag shirts were just being jerks and didn't even have to partake in the celebration at all if they didn't want to.

Finally, I do not believe it was PC fear that tragically cost 13 Americans their lives in the Nadal Malik Hasan case, rather it was Hasan himself and a real lack of mental health access for such people both in and out of the Armed forces. And part of that comes from the stigma still placed upon persons seeking any form of mental health help.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)


I see nothing wrong with saying "Ha Ha Ha" instead of "Ho Ho Ho". Why would anyone object to that?
Why would anyone object to "Ho Ho Ho?" Santa is not calling for prostitutes, he's laughing his jolly laugh. Just how rabid of a social justice snowflake are you anyway? Oh, wait, you think it's right to send students who are citizens of a country home for showing pride in their country because their pride offends people from other countries. That's pretty bad. Why would you think it's all right for people not to be able to show pride in their own country no matter what day it was? Uncle Remus is part of the history of the United States, but he's been relegated to the dustbin because history is only allowed once its been revised. As for Hasan, political correctness reared its ugly head when his attack was called workplace violence rather than a terrorist attack.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Again Zanza this is NOT rhe appropriate place to discuss this, BUT again THESE STUDENTS ARE NOT FROM OTHER COUNTRIES OKAY!! They are ALSO American citizens. They are celebrating their CULTURE not their COUNTRY!!And AGAIN those 5 students did NOT have to participate in their celebration anyway. It's not that hard to understand. Just how rabid of a BIGOTED racist are you anyway?

This countries treatment of Black Americans/Native Americans and many others is nothing to be proud of It's something to be ASHAMED of and more importantly, LEARN from. History is written by the victors, so it is NOT always correct in the first place. Revising it has it's place too. Have you had ANY education? Or do you consider that too PC?

I disagree with everything you've presented and will continue to do so.So let's just agree to disagree (at least on this board)!

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Where the hell do you get off telling me what I can say or not say? Are you the forum cop? Are you the representative of the thought police for IMDB? Get it through your head that this is an open forum and anybody can talk about anything here. This is not a safe space for social justice snowflakes. Go back to your binkie and your blankie and your fetal position. You don't like what I have to say, don't read it. You don't like people showing pride in America, too bad. We got a president now who loves America, and he's going to send people like you packing, and I'm going to love every single minute. And for the record, you can take your personal insults and ponder for the next four years how it's exactly that attitude that lost you liberals the country.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Not worth responding to!

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

You are such a clown and a clich, from these ridiculously disparate -going from the insignificant to the politicized- examples you cut and pasted to your indoctrinated terminology, "social justice snowflake" being a primary example of it. And then you go on insulting the people who bother replying to your inane, all ideological and Pavlovian drivels: lol. Speaking of "rabid " you were obviously making a projection.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Perfect.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

And if you can't do anything better than spout insults and spew hate, you obviously are too stupid to even try having a serious conversation with. Sounds like the social justice snowflake moniker got under your skin. You should work on getting out of your playpen before you try talking with the adults.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Zana8, you are such a willing sucker for the silly stories about the 'loony left' and 'the pc brigade' perpetuated by the gutter press.
In the UK, you'll find almost all of the 'loony left' articles originate in the Daily Mail. And yoou believe them all wholeheartedly?

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Excellent list and I particularly want to thank you for including Uncle Remus as it's an absolutely WONDERFUL movie with a great performance by black actor James Baskett as the titular character. Heart warming and wise and a great family pic, esp for children. It in no way denigrates blacks - it actually does the opposite by showing how young white kids can benefit from the wisdom and kindness of a black elder. It's a shame that Mr. Baskett is now an ignored and forgotten figure despite his iconic performance only because of fascistic PC nonsense. Every child should have an Uncle Remus in his or her life!

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Being politically correct is not a realistic portrayal of the world.

It's okay to insult people. It's okay to disagree with people. Censorship is never okay. Attempting to silence or limit free speech is never okay.

If you feel offended, you will get over it. Everybody does. Being PC just allows you to live in a fantasy world away from critique. It's more damaging to society because it prevents healthy conversation and debate.

The cold winds are rising. Winter is coming.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

It's okay to disagree with people. Censorship is never okay. Attempting to silence or limit free speech is never okay. BUT it is not okay to insult people, and such behavior does NOT promote healthy conversation and debate. Referring to others as *beep* *****, retards" etc. or insulting their religious beliefs is not likely to bring about any meaningful conversations or resolutions.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)


BUT it is not okay to insult people, and such behavior does NOT promote healthy conversation and debate. Referring to others as *beep* *****, retards" etc. or insulting their religious beliefs is not likely to bring about any meaningful conversations or resolutions.


That's when looking at it through PC goggles.

I have far more respect for the person who is insulted and ignores it and carries on the conversation. That's how it should be done.

The people who do not do this and allow the conversation to be shut down are the people who don't actually care to have the conversation in the first place. They use it as an excuse to back out.

This isn't to say I think it wouldn't be better to avoid ad hominems in a conversation, but I'm saying when it happens, so what? Can we not look past our own egos and stay on the topic? Because that's what is happening. A bruised ego. Nothing more. We can be better than that. All we have to do is start placing more value on truth rather than beliefs where knowledge is concerned. If we accomplish that, insults won't really matter.

The cold winds are rising. Winter is coming.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Hmm, sounds a bit like victim blaming to me. Not to equate message board bullying with any real-life victimization, but being a jerk is being a jerk. How about people just stop being jerks to each other?

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Okay I can agree with that, but it works both ways. If I call someone a racist or even redneck, they should also be able to ignore it and carry on the conversation.
Still, as you say, it is better to avoid ad hominems in a conversation. I think much more is accomplished when we do and it becomes a real productive debate.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)


If I call someone a racist or even redneck, they should also be able to ignore it and carry on the conversation.


Exactly.


Still, as you say, it is better to avoid ad hominems in a conversation. I think much more is accomplished when we do and it becomes a real productive debate.


I think there is still value in insult so long as you've exhausted reason first and you're talking to a stone wall.
The cold winds are rising. Winter is coming.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

And then he berates Rollo for not being true Viking.

They all strive to deviate from the norm, but collectively swarm to be all the same.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Why are you people so dense in understanding that people can change as they get older and presumably wiser ( something lacking in this board ). It's been many years since Floki was a rabid Viking. Perhaps he's open to more influences.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Well, if he finally shows even a tad of remorse for murdering Athelstan, I am all for his new found conscience
H

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

This. And it's not like they even set it up as a spiritual awakening. On the way he just says, "I feel hollow. I need to be filled" and that he doesn't want children. What changed? All of a sudden he denounces the gods? Lazy writing.
If you read historical accounts there were actually more Vikings that converted to Christianity than to Islam. I don't mind their portrayal of early Britain or it's Christian inhabitants but the 180 by Floki came out of nowhere and just seemed incongruous.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

I have been over this debate in past threads. You should try to understand that the Vikings believed all Gods were real and that they existed on the lands that they raided and people worshiped them. Floki is very very devout towards the Gods he knows in Scandinavia because he believes they are the most powerful Gods that are in existence (Thor creating lightning bolts and thunder in the sky for example). For most of his life, he only raided Christian lands and saw first hand how the Christians prayed to their God, and Floki did not see them as strong or courageous people so maybe their God was not as strong as the Norse Gods to Floki. The Christian people would leave their weapons in front of their church and break out of prayer if they felt they were in danger from the Northmen. Maybe Floki felt that their God was too peaceful and could not protect them, so ultimately he thought of the Christian God to be weak and unworthy of his interest and definitely his worship and conversion to Christianity.

As someone else in this thread pointed out, people become different with age, so maybe this firstly made him more open to the Gods he would most likely see in the Mediterranean on his voyage with Bjorn. However, my theory is that it had less to do with his change in identity and more so that Floki felt that the God they were worshiping in the Mosque, "Allah", seemed to give their followers strength and they had very close ties to their God considering none of them ever broke prayer even when the main worshiper had his head cut off in front of all the other worshipers. Floki did not even see any statues of their God, so he must have believed that their God was so strong and real to them that it gave them strength to transcend their bodies and become one with their God (something along those lines). Floki possibly thought that their God could have also been one his own Gods that maybe they shared, or maybe he just thought their God was more powerful than any God he had ever seen. I don't think Floki ever really knew what he felt or who the God really was to him, but he just had a very intense feeling that he should not provoke the God whether it be one that he was familiar with or an unknown God that was very powerful and should not be provoked. Perhaps he also just wanted to know more about the God and did not want to ruin future chances to converse with the God.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Great insight. Thank you.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

My take: Floki will be one of the first to convert to Christianity.

1) he is questioning his spirituality
2) his supreme Vikingness isn't making him happy
3) he misses Ragnar
4) history has shown that extreme fundamentalists can switch (see Saul becoming Paul)

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)


Floki will be one of the first to convert to Christianity.


Than the first thing he can do is show some flipping remorse for killing Athelstan and ask for forgiveness LOL



Humankind cannot bear very much reality. ~T.S. Eliot

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Wait for it

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

I have seen the episode with the raid but not the most recent episode, so I may not have the latest information. From that episode I took it as Floki was trying to reconnect with the part of himself that was the most important in the past, the part where he worshiped the Viking gods. Earlier in the episode he said to his wife that he was empty and needed something to fill him up. I think he had felt forsaken by the Viking gods with the siege on Paris and things hadn't been the same since then. So he's trying to reconnect with that part of himself, the one of faith. Doesn't mean that he is going to convert to being Muslim but he rather wants to be inspired again like the people in the temple.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Well, while the Chritians were alway whining (when other have the upper hand) or boasting how superior there god is (when they hvae the upper hand), these worshipers gave a damn about his presence, no fear of death, only their connection to god mattered to them.

And unlike Christians or Vikings, they don't worship to idols/icons like crucifixes or trees.
Their idea of the divine manifestation is solely of a spiritual nature.


Ich bin kein ausgeklgelt Buch, ich bin ein Mensch mit seinem Widerspruch.
Conrad Ferdinand Meyer

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)


And unlike Christians or Vikings, they don't worship to idols/icons like crucifixes or trees.
Their idea of the divine manifestation is solely of a spiritual nature.
Christians don't worship idols. You really are an idiot to say such a thing. Muslims worship their sacred city of Mecca so thoroughly that they don't even let non-Muslims in, lest they contaminate it. They've made such an idol of their prophet that drawing a cartoon of Mohammed can get you killed. When's the last time you heard of a Christian place that was not open to all comers, or a Christian shooting up a place like Charlie Hebdo that does scurrilous cartoons of Jesus?

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

"Christians don't worship idols"


I guess there's just crucifix's in every church by coincidence.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

or icons:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon


I guess he messed it up with "false idols".

Ich bin kein ausgeklgelt Buch, ich bin ein Mensch mit seinem Widerspruch.
Conrad Ferdinand Meyer

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Christians don't worship idols?

Everyday millions of Christians pray to Saints,, and millions pray to Mary.
See,, your supposed to pray to God through Jesus,, Why? Because Saints are idols. This is a no no
Ever go into a Greek or Russian orthodox church? There loaded with symbols and idols. Sorry but not all Christians pray to God,, they pray to idils

Frankly autocorrect, I'm getting a little tired of your shirt

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Okay, you don't know what an idol is. An idol is a thing that is worshiped as an actual deity. Christians do not worship idols. Saints are not idols. Saints are considered intermediaries between people and God. Saints are not considered gods. St Christopher is the patron saint of travels and people pray to him to mediate for safe travel. No one prays to Saint Christopher for him to give the safe travel. No one considers Saint Christopher the god of travelers. No one considers Mary a god either. She's an intermediary. So is Jesus, except He's also our savior who died for our sins, so He is also our advocate who spares us from God's judgement. As for Russian orthodox, if you actually knew anything about Russian Christians, you would have a little more respect for them. I don't know what religion you are, or if you even follow a religion, but the Russians held fast to God all through the time of the Soviet Union. They suffered great persecution, were sent to Siberia, they were tortured and killed, at the very least they were deprived of work and the basic necessities of life and they still kept the faith. So they like their icons, so what? Don't you even know the difference between an icon and an idol? An idol is worshiped for itself. An icon is venerated for symbolizing God.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

What are you talking about? Have you even seen the first season? Athelstan showed no fear, when Ragnar was going to kill him or even until death of Floki or of other Vikings. Yet Floki hated him. Now he respects Muslims? Try not to let your bias get in the way of history.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Jealousy.

Ich bin kein ausgeklgelt Buch, ich bin ein Mensch mit seinem Widerspruch.
Conrad Ferdinand Meyer

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Lol? IIRC Athelstan was hiding himself in fear and begged not to be killed, being kept alive only because he spoke to Ragnar in his native language which the latter thought could be useful for intel Floki hated Athelstan because of him sharing his religion that he found weak, moreover Vikings had a grief against Christians who slaughtered other pagans while forcefully converting them, see Charlemagne I just love the clowns running amok because Floki was intrigued by the Muslims praying to an invisible deity, moreover when they are blabbering about 'history'

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Aurora:
Exactly. Why people can't see this eludes me. Floki is an older, changed and possibly wiser man. He's not going to convert but is curious about other cultures. People can change.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

What changed? We didn't see it. There was no spiritual awakening from him.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

I think their fanatism resonated with Floki. And thats hardly a compliment for muslims.

Re: So wait… Floki (possible spoilers)

Floki changes during the series, just as did Ragnar and Lagertha.
Example;
In the supposed attack on Lindisfarne, Floki does not show the same kind of mercy towards the then captured monks in the church.
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