Carnival of Souls : Lesbian Heroine?

It seemed to me pretty clear that the heroine was a lesbian. She starts off riding in the car with two women who drag race men, she tells the doctor repeatedly that she has no interest in men and never has and keeps away from her lecherous neighbor, she's more than willing to have her landlady come in when she's half-dressed, and there are lots of other little clues along the way. I saw the dance at the end as being about her being sucked into zombie-ish heterosexuality and running from it.

After watching the interviews with the writer and director, I was surprised that no one said anything about that (even though Kansans might not use the word "lesbian" out loud. :-) ) Am I reading too much into this or did other people think this too?

Sorry, youre reading to much into it. If the director intended for her to be lesbian im sure they would have included some, altough very subtile, scene were she is drawn towards other woman. She is just very insecure, or something, reminds me very much about the protagonist in Repulsion.

She reminded me of the chick in REPULSION too. Not necessarily GAY just not interested in sex at all. She says to the doctor that she's never been with anyone and is just fine that way. If she was a lesbian wouldnt she want to be with a woman???
What I dont understand is how she says she's never been attracted to anyone ever and has always felt that "not belonging" feeling. Even BEFORE the accident???

So I say Mary is just a frigid asexual.

LOUD & PROUD HAL LOVER
LIVING IN THE PAST
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6spdi/index.html

My impression is that her lack of sexual interest was a feature of her loss of soul as a dead person. She didn't remember feelings of sexual attraction and desire natural to the living. It was another hint to the audience that she was not alive.

Exactly. I'm not sure how this was missed. It's what the whole movie is about. She out and out said she didn't want to be around any people and couldn't remember if she had always been that way (implying she only began feeling that way after she died).

It's been years since I've seen this film and it has stayed with me all this time. Actually saw this before I ever saw Repulsion. I was immediately reminded of the protagonist in Carnival. She is beyond asexual, she is anhedonic.

obviously your friend was hot for lesbians. If he didnt concioussly intend to make her a lesbian his subconciouss mind did.

I agree with the first poster, because any interperation is valid. Great art can definitly be personal, and that estimation of Mary Henry makes sense to me - That actually adds a layer to the film that I never noticed before. Damn, I'm gonna go watch my gorgeous 2 disc Criterion set again!

Lesbian Heroine? Tough sell for me. I just finished watching it, the thought came across my mind regarding her sexuality. Yet, I could not justify it outright. Sex and sexuality does not seem to be the issue being driven here. The lecherous neighbor seems to neither prove nor disprove which way she swings, because he is just fairly unattractive for obvious reasons, not because he is a male.

Sex seems to be the last angle to view this film; Mary seems to want the fellowship of anyone. Then again, I tend to try to avoid using Queer Theory as my first analyzation tool.

You are quite wrong about great art being slack enough for personal interpretations.

The thing absolutely everyone misses about this is it is a Mormon cult horror film. This all by itself is shocking! The fact Hervey got any money at all to make it is almost beyond belief. I was told that he said the money for it was paid out for a series of oral hygiene flix, but he pocketed it for this.

What is the meaning of meaning?

Bathwater of the Gods -

I was just wondering why you say this is a Mormon cult horror film. I did not see anything in the film that referenced anything to do with the Mormon religion. Other than the fact that part of it was filmed in Utah, I don't see a connection. Please elaborate.

Thank you,
kaylynn36

I don't think "any interpretation is valid" if the writer disagrees with it. Or maybe every interpretation is valid, but some are just dead wrong. There are some nuances that rise to the top in the light of scrutiny but when it has to do with something so fundamental as a person's actions or direct motive, then you really have to go through the author. What I mean is let's say X kills Y because someone kills X's friend Z. It is revealed that Y did not kill Z. Now whether this is fact or left open ended is completely up to the writer (do they choose to reveal it?). But when it comes to whether X really killed Y for this reason is anybody's guess. That is what's known as an indirect motive. It is that which is partially (but mainly) hidden and it is a great part of what is known as the iceberg theory. Sexual orientation is a part of the former - it has to go through the author and as someone else here has posted, it is not the author's intent.

I certainly don't think that because Mary is riding in a car with other girls it is reasonable to assume she is a lesbian if that view is valid, then the fact that the guys who engage in a race with the girls are also riding in a car with no companions of the another gender would imply that they must be gay as well. And what would it say about the lecherous young guy boarding (until Mary shows up)in a house with only an old woman? Some kind of Oedipal relationship? And once you begin this kind of out-of-thin-air kind of analysis, you have to find some kind of psycho-babble explanation for why Mary wants to "play an organ" in a church what does she see when she looks at those "phallic" pipes of varying sizes as she plays barefoot! aha! a foot fetishist's delight! in the church! until music reaches a "climax" in tones that are "blasphemous" ???!!!
Once this sort of "interpretation" starts, there is no end anything can mean anything in the eyes (or imagination) of a beholder. Whether it is logical, or motivated by demonstrable evidence from within the work of "art," or is in keeping with the probable human motivations of its own time period instead of forced upon it by the mores of our own period ah, there's the problem.
No, I don't think there's any reason within the movie itself to see Mary as a lesbian she is devoid of emotional connections with people because of what becomes clear at the end of the movie. In her situation which she only gradually grasps sexuality is of little significance, ultimately of no importance at all.

That was actually a huge question that was often asked back when this film was released. It was unintentional her uninterest with sex was merely to help enhance her character's struggle.

GarradAM

when yer ded, its hard to maintain much interst in much of anything

even hot cateye-glass lesbean sex, mournfully enough

I am so glad you posted the lesbian question. That was the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw the film. Now I'm writing a paper about it. REsisting compulsory heterosexuality in Carnival of Souls. Cheers! I thought I was the only one.

Well, i am not sure about lesbianism, but what about in the shop, where she becomes 'invisible'. The shop asistant is quite clearly a man in drag! I am not jokin, seriously, watch it, and tell me that is not a transvestite!

i just figured her "detachment" had to do w/ her being dead and all. i DID think the same thing about the sales'lady'. i'd swear she had a moustache (or at least bushy eyebrows), and was hellaciously tall.

i used to shop in that store. actually, not IN the store, as the interior of that store is in salt lake, but the exterior (of the store i used to shope in) is in lawrence, ks, and i believe it's the oldest department store in the state. it opened in 1857, which might make it one of the oldest in quite a wide area.

What course are you writing your paper for? Do you think you're getting your time and your money's worth attending such a course? What type of employment do you hope to get after taking such a course?

Homosexuality is a resistance movement? To what exactly? Well, it's a good thing there are heterosexuals out there to give birth to all you homosexuals, otherwise the ranks of your resistance movement would be very thin indeed.

Why is heterosexuality "compulsory"? Because reproduction is why nature gave us genitals? Is your struggle against Mother Nature and the roles she intended for your body parts?

I think your missing the whole point. She not only didnt want to be around men she says she doesnt want to be around anyonei life. She was dislocated from people in life, and dislocated from people in death also.

You could tell that she only stayed around her neighbor because she was afraid and didn't want to be alone. She wasn't attracted to him at all. He just wanted to get into her pants from the start. That doesn't mean she's not interested in men. It just means she wasn't interested in him. I couldn't see that she was a lesbian. Only that her neighbor just didn't do anything for her. Case closed.

I got the lesbian vibe from her too
Film, like art is interpreted by those who perceive it.
Not sure there's a right or a wrong way to interprate any creative endeavor.
So to say we're reading something that isn't there is a mistake
It may not have been intentional on the part of director, but people see it, so it becomes a part of of their experience of the film, and therefore a valid part of the piece. It certainly doesn't make any difference one way or the other as to the story.

I just think it's wrong for people to say that she was a lesbian just because she didn't have any feelings for that degenerate neighbor of hers that only wanted to get into her pants.

Good point. It's as if a woman who doesn't spread her legs for every guy that comes along must be a lesbian, according to these people.

A long dead thread, but I'm afraid I groaned when I saw the title..

The neighbour was a seedy creep. I'd hope few women would be interested in HIM.

As some one else said.. 3 women in a car = Lesbian? Then, by the same rule, the guys in the car = Gay. I don't think so.
few visible scars

I disagree. Not all art is an inkblot test. Some interpretations may not be consistent with the facts. And just because a character doesn't walk around with a T-shirt that says "I'm heterosexual" doesn't mean they're homosexual.

If you don't know what a character's sexual preference is, then it's a safe bet they're heterosexual, since the vast majority of people are. Especially in a non-sexploitation movie from 1962.

And perhaps if a character's sexual preference isn't clear, it's because it's not important to the story? What is it with homosexuals trying to make everything about their sexual preference, anyways?

well my theory is: if she grew up in a very religious god-fearing family and became a organist for a church before getting into a car accident it seems she is just not interested in "sin" before marriage. And if she had any interest joining the church to be more than on organist then she would be a nun and then therefore would be celebent. just my thoughts tho.. and strickly not backed up by any info beceause really there isnt any except the movie, which is to be inturpurated however well have fun guys!

"Give her hell for us Peeves!!"

Mary was not a lesbian. She seemed indifferent and detached, but that fit with her circumstances in the movie. Her character was more asexual than anything else.

There are no lesbian undertones in this movie. Anything you picked up on was sustained by your own inventions.

O'h Yeah, Maybe she was a lesbian, She didn't have much of a desire for men.

Everyone always reads too much into movies. But you might have something there with the doctor's office confession. But you definitely read too much into the Landlady and the Souls-dance. If she were a lesbian, I think she'd have better taste than to have 'chosen' Mrs. Thomas. Plus, if she is a lesbian - why does she trust men like Dr. Samuels? And she trusts Mr. Linden quite a bit (not to mention that she looks quite lit up after he leaves her in that Morning Coffee scene). Most lesbians have serious trust issues with men, and though Mary says she wants to be alone, I see her making an effort to be more open to men. If the writer was trying to imply somehow that Mary was a lesbian, the movie would have been bad, because there would be no point to it - it would be purely for the exploitation factor. It's not important that she even be with any guy, so I think that's why the script chooses her to be sexually confusing. There is no real evidence here to support that claim apart from the fact that her character isn't motivated to jump every guy she can find. Remember, back in these days, people expected all pretty young girls were either married, had boyfriends, or were on the lookout for one.

Sorry, but the Prosecution's Case doesn't hold water.


"Carol, one word of advice: send Cindy to a special school"

I think Mary's sexual orientation was not touched on at all in this film, rather, it was her lack of sexual interest
(this was implied to be the case even in life for her as she indicated at the doctor's office). Most people fall in the middle of the bell curve when it comes to sex drive/attractiveness and behavior. Couple this with the saturation of sex in film and it easy to forget that there are promiscuous hetero, homo, bi and asexuals just as there are sexually inactive hetero, homo, bi and asexuals - in other words, not everyone is *ahem* horny. And jeez, the neighbor is a caricature of a sleaze-ball - it seems the writer's intention that he be undesirable, period.

Lesbians have issues with men? Straight women do as well! I'm joking, sort of - generalizations like that are sweeping.


http://www.myspace.com/clunkygirl

Yeah, lesbians have issues with men. Anyone who denies that is either a liar or needs to get in touch with reality.

Kind of off-topic, but if she was so anti-social, who were those two girls in the car with her? I'm not pushing for or against the lesbian thing (I do doubt it), but doesn't a playful joyride with friends seem like a strange way to introduce an emotionally detached/numbed character?

Personally i found nothing in this movie that made me think that Mary was a Lesbian. Sure she pushed away John. But if the only man who came on to you was a guy who looked like he worked for the mob. had Greasie hair and most likly had a weird shrine of you with some hair clipings. You would be running to the exit to. Now if some nice looking handsome guy was living down the hall. I think her reaction would have been different. Plus the fact that she was Dead through the whole movie must not of help her sex drive.

Mary's lack of interest in men is meant to represent sexual death. For a detailed analysis, check out this site:

http://www.horror-wood.com/carny.htm





http://armedrobbery.blogspot.com/

i thought dead people never thought about sex.just us living folks.by the way candice was the most beautiful dead girl that i never got to kiss.

thanks for the link. terrific article.

dont you know? any woman who resists a creepy guy from coming on to them must be a lesbian.