Red Dwarf : Was Season 7 easily the worst?

Was Season 7 easily the worst?

Decent 1st episode, but then just bad, bad, bad until the end where it gets good again

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

Series 7 has a bashful charm that endears itself to me. Any episode without Rimmer in it seems a bit strange. But that's nothing to do with Kochanski to me. You won't get a better actress for the part than Chloe Annette. Tikka to Ride is a brilliant piece of movie-like Red Dwarf and I strongly like the first 5 of the 8 episodes, including the opening James Bond meets Indiana Jones-like sequence of Stoke me a Clipper and The Rimmer Experience. The seeming problem with the series is that it was following the rich concepts, dark themes and snappy one liners of series 5 and 6. But I now respect that Doug Naylor evolved the show in to drama and extra continuing characters.

I used to dislike how series 8 abandoned the filmic look of parts of series 7 but now I appreciate series 8 as a one off experiment with the overarching format. It has a 'soap opera' feel with its Eastenders cast members, prison drama and threat more from crew than from space villains.

Series 10 is my least favourite despite my enjoyment of Fathers and Suns. I don't get the cast's love of Lemons and I could see the 'He's not the Messiah' twist coming. Jesus is never funny material for comedy to me.

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

I've never been fond of 7, but I liked 8 and then Back to Earth even less. They're easily the bottom 3 for me.

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

Many fans didn't like S7 partly because of the absence of Rimmer ( mostly ) and partly because with the introduction of Kochanski came the introduction of more sexist jokes. I didn't mind that series and I liked Kochanski well enough but she was no replacement for Rimmer.

Back to Earth isn't popular with fans either.

I've never seen series 8 but apparently many fans disliked the dubious 'rape' jokes, which included Lister wishing he could have taken advantage of K when she was drunk or something and the implication that Lister was happy to allow Rimmer to undergo sexual assault by hoards of women or something when Rimmer was clearly unhappy about it. Many fans regarded this behaviour as being totally un-Lister like in nature. What's interesting is that a few years earlier, the writers rejected a script involving a sex virus or 'perfume' because they felt some of the jokes were too near the knuckle in terms of implied rape, so the fact that similar jokes were passed for S8 is strange, unless it's because one of the writers left and Doug Naylor was less nervous about such jokes. The other issue with S8 is that Lister is meant to be "all alone, more or less" and with 5 main characters now - with Rimmer returning alongside Kochanski - it feels less and less like Lister is stuck in space with people who aren't entirely human.

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

Series 8 is the worst where the show degrades into a juvenile pantomime, and it abandoned the show's core premise!

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

Tikka to ride - nice idea and probably the most enjoyable episode.
Stoke me a clipper - the opening with Ace Rimmer is sublime. A good episode.
Ouroboros - nice idea but not very funny.
Duct soup - awful.
Blue - the Rimmer stuff is great but not much else.
Beyond a joke - yawn.
Epideme - nice idea again but not much funny (pick up the ball aside).
Nanarchy - pretty forgettable.

I actually think there's some good ideas in series 7 but it has two massive problems. Firstly, the show without Rimmer just doesn't work. Secondly, the introduction of Annette (who is very good) completely changes the dynamic, the humour and the characters.

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

Think its major problem was how big a cliffhanger series 6 had ended on, then we had almost 3 full years of suspense to get through (series 6 was 1994-ish....series 7 in 1997ish?).... and when you watch it back to back its ok, but at the time Tikka to Ride was just such a poor opening episode ("Stoke me a clipper" was much better, but was something of a false dawn).

Agree, the character change from Rimmer to Kochanskwi did not really work, and as a result they changed Kryten (though not as bad as series 7, the "love triangle" thing and making him cry like a baby at everything just got annoying).

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

I actually liked Series 8! It had funny dialogue and script unlike Series 7.

Totally agree that no Rimmer hurt the show bad, don't see why they couldn't keep him as well as Kochanski, which is what they did in Series 8.

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

They didn't purposefully choose to lose Rimmer for half of series 7. Chris Barrie chose to expand his portfolio with football sitcom A Prince Among Men. And either didn't have time, didn't want to devote the time at that stage (after filming since 1988 the not small 6 series of a not particularly easy to film show) or felt that Kochanski could fill the gap in effect or be allowed to breathe as a new dynamic more anyway if Chris had a break from a few episodes. The loss of Rob Grant from the show might also have aided confidence in Chris in trying this out for a while. It was already a changed 'ship' as a TV programme at that stage in a few ways after the neat ending of series 6 and you only get so many offers at trying out other sitcoms.

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

Chris had been filming The Brittias Empire whilst also filming Red Dwarf during the early 90's and no doubt was finding it tiring to have two projects on the go. It was totally his decision to leave Dwarf for a while and neither of the writers would have intentionally written out such a good character as Rimmer

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

Was, apart from the first two episodes being good, it was the worst.

I don't care about a troll who doesn't pay for his opinion telling me how to review movies.

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

I think I get more laughs watching 7 with the cast commentary on than without! Having said that the series had a higher proportion of fresh/interesting plot ideas than those that followed (didn't like the nanobots though: tiny wee robots that can turn anything into anything else in a matter of seconds? Makes anything the crew encounters thereafter seem a bit too frivolous).

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

With Series 7 it just felt like the show had come back from its three year long hiatus wrong somehow.

It felt more indulgent, drawn out and over-wrought over the show's bleaker, melancholy undercurrents. Lister and Kryten seem far sadder, more pitiable characters (even before Lister ends up armless) making for a more uncomfortable watch.

And it's partly because of this that the drama and comedy seem to clash abrasively this season rather than work in harmony.

It was a gamble to change the essential dynamic by having Rimmer leave and Kochanski join, but nothing reassured us that this new direction was one worth looking forward to

The conflict between Kryten and Kochanski, and the hell he ends up putting Lister through in Duct Soup makes the characters feel far more unpleasant and vindictive, putting a far uglier face on the show.

And that's the problem. We saw Lister mellow in his relationship with Rimmer over time and regard him as one of the crew, even though he didn't exactly like him. Whereas Kryten's bizarre and appalling behaviour to sabotage Kochanski and Lister just sees him become a repeat offender.

Infact some of Kryten's behaviour this season is downright creepy, and his paranoia about Kochanski's provocative influence on Lister sounds like something from a particularly vitriolic MGTOW video. In trying to force a sense of conflict they end up making the show feel nastier, and the characters' pettier.

Kryten was my mum's favorite character up to this point, but this season put her off him (she also didn't buy the retcon in Beyond a Joke about him always having a Negadrive that was now causing his hissy fits).

I have sometimes wondered if it might have been better if there had been no seventh season, and they'd just let the show end on a high with Out of Time or Back to Reality. I certainly didn't quite care about the show in the same way again after that point (although some of Series 11 has felt like getting the good old days back again).

But on reflection, there are some things worth salvaging abut Series 7. Tikka Ta Ride is mostly a solid episode, as is Epideme. Much of the material surrounding Rimmer's goodbye is exemplary and does give me a real lump in my throat- particularly the Saturn's ring of light bees and the Rimmer song. Which certainly was more poignant at the time since it really did feel like something of the show had come to a permanent end with Rimmer gone (not knowing he'd be back as a permanent resident the next season).

In hindsight I can appreciate ways that it was trying something different and stretching the show's legs. I don't think it was a case of the makers or cast no longer trying or caring, that's for sure, and in that sense I have to admire it a bit.

Paul McGann IS the War Doctor in my fic

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

I actually like series 7, 'Duct soup, 'Beyond a joke' and 'Nanarchy are stand outs for me. Series 8 is by far my least favourite. It was nice seeing some of the original crew again but the show seemed to lose something and the humour went lower (I.e 'Krytie tv and 'Back in the red' which brings me to the other thing I didn't like about series 8 which was the back in the red being stretched over 3 episodes, followed by another two parter 'Pete'. I did like 'Cassandra' and 'Only the good' though

''oh buffy, i love you so much i almost forgot to brood!''

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

I started watching RD when PBS first brought it to the US and I immediately fell in love. I've kind of fallen away from it in recent years and haven't seen anything past the special which was a sort of series 9.

I haven't watched 7 in a very long time, but from memory I believe I can name Stoke Me a Clipper, Ouroboros (sp?), Epideme and Duct Soup as episodes I really enjoyed. I probably like a couple other episodes but I can't remember.

8 was so weird and different and took some getting used to. I came to realize that it was the interaction and chemistry of the cast that I enjoyed watching more so than whatever story they chose to tell.

I think the worst for me (of what I've seen) is the movie/special/series 9 - or whatever you call it.

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

S7 felt like the beginning of a porn. It has a campy feel about it.

Re: Was Season 7 easily the worst?

I loved the last two episodes of season 7. The sci-fi really started picking up and the story with Lister losing his hand was very dramatic the first time I saw it.