Henry V : The sad thing is

The sad thing is

no-one does actually remember the men who fought at the battle of Agincourt, or the date (25th October, 1415). It's ironic how Henry says "from this day unto the ending of the world, we in it shall be remembered, we few, we happy few," yet no-one does.

LMC xxx

Therapy is expensive; bubble wrap is free!

Re: The sad thing is

When this version of Henry V first came out, there was some interesting commentary about how Branaugh handled such a patriotic theme in our age, when patriotism is usually treated ironically. Many of them talked about how it is almost impossible to treat the "band of brothers" speech ironically, it is so stirring, even though most of the rest of the movie highlights the idea of war as a waste, not a glory.

Although few remember the date of Agincourt, much less the names of those who died or those who survived, the concept of Agincourt -- British pluck conquers more powerful but unrighteous foe -- has not been forgotten. It's commonly recognized as one of the characteristics of the British to be most admired.

I think Shakespeare gets a large part of the credit for Agincourt being remembered that way. Had he not written Henry V when he wrote it, the way he wrote it, Agincourt would be even less-known today. Olivier's version during WWII, consciously done to strengthen the nation's sense of patriotism and optimism (released in the UK after the failure of Market Garden and before the Battle of the Bulge) added to the cultural history that makes Agincourt a battle that IS long remembered, even though time is relentless in the way those who fight and die in war become nameless statistics or long rows of mute crosses, no matter how remarkable their courage and bravery.

However, even in the original play, which was consciously patriotic, Shakespeare's Chorus has the last word, ending with the sour note that the gains so bloodily made at Agincourt were reversed shortly later under Henry VI . . . .

Clementine: I'm a vindictive little bitch, truth be told!

Re: The sad thing is

I was thinking about how Olivier doing this in World War 2 gave the Brits a sense of being able to fight against the greatest odds and still win, so Shakespeare's play did have major effects some 400 years after he wrote it!

Oh, years ago I put Saint Crispin's day on my computer calendar, along with the Band of Brothers speech, so some of us do remember it! Too many people in this modern world don't remember, and just don't care, about much anything to do with history, which really is a shame!

Re: The sad thing is

I have to admit, had I not seen this film, I wouldn't know anything about the Hundred Year's War, Shakespeare, Henry V or the battle of Agincourt. It wasn't even a year since I first saw it, but now I'm crazy about all of the above things! Currently, I've seen the Branagh film version 16 times (yes, really!) and the Olivier version twice. All of my friends think that I'm really nerdy because I'm so into Shakespeare, and at school, history is one of my favourite lessons. This film has had a huge effect on me, and I can't thank Kenneth Branagh enough for making it.

Re: The sad thing is

Excellent. Yes, it's a great film, with a great battle scene, and Mr. Branagh nails the "Band of Brothers" speech perfectly. And Derek Jacobi as the chorus imparts such great authority and a little bit of melancoly. And Brian Blessed is one of the great actors. I'm glad you got turned on to Shakespeare and the era by this film. You can truthfully maintain that a film made your life more vibrant.

When I was in high school we were forced to read "Romeo and Juliet" and we couldn't stand reading what we thought were dry, dead words on a page; but then our teacher had us watch Franco Zefferelli's version of "Romeo and Juliet" and the actors made the words come alive. So yes, seeing Shakespeare makes the plays, and everything they are about, so much more colorful, more immediate, and more fun.

Re: The sad thing is

No-one remembers the date or the battle? think not, had the date and "let them achieve me and sell my bones" engraved on a silver tag and attached to my fencing bag. People forget the non dramatized battles more readily! Crecy [26/8/1346], Poitiers[19/9/1356], Sluys 24th June 1340- more complete a victory than Trafalgar!captured 166 captured ships with 24 escaped odds british 120-147 ships V's French 190 ships thats 21:27 losing 87%. [Trafalgar 27 V's 33 ships 9:11 lose 66% French/Spanish 22 ships no Brits lost] etc

The box, you opened it we came.

Re: The sad thing is

well, my dad used to go on about this battle all the time, so he certaintly remembered.

I note that are is a town just north of Toronto named after the the battle.

Re: The sad thing is

Sure it's not named after the place where the battle took place?




I'm anespeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericumbobulations...

Re: The sad thing is

>Sure it's not named after the place where the battle took place?

yes, and no, the guy that picked the name, named several places after famous french losses, which suggests a pattern, don't you think.

Re: The sad thing is

French losses, or English victories? Because they go hand in hand quite a lot.




I'm anespeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericumbobulations...

Re: The sad thing is

After all the French won the 100 year war. Battle of Formigny and Castillion were 2 great french victories at the end of the 100 year war, but offcause english dont know of them because they lost.

Re: The sad thing is

I suppose the war would be remember better if it actually accomplished anything. As it is, in the long term that particular battle accomplished nothing, but left a lot of dead Frenchmen behind.

Re: The sad thing is

Actually, it expanded British territories in France for 200 hundred years, estalishing trade routes that still exist today,




I'm anespeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericumbobulations...

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This message has been deleted.

Re: The sad thing is

I was talking about the Henry in the film. I'm not thick, I don't genuinely believe Shakespeare had a time machine and wrote down word for word what was said.




I'm anespeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericumbobulations...

the real sad thing is

how many men died on that land for hundreds of years after the battle not to mention ww1 and ww2, the farmers must be digging up crap year round

Re: the real sad thing is

Lets See, there is a book and an HBO miniseries about the US 101st airborne in WW2 named after the speech from the play. A pretty decent Danny Devito moive(Renasiannce Man) featured the speech as well.

Re: The sad thing is

I'm pretty sure I remember some of them.

Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,



Edward the Duke of York, the Earl of Suffolk,
Sir Richard Ketly, Davy Gam, esquire:


Well, 601 years later some of us still remember some of them. (Thanks to Shakespeare.)

How many people do you remember who fought at Gallipoli, 101 years ago?

I've lived upon the edge of chance for 20 years or more...
Del Rio's Song

Re: The sad thing is

We should remember the dead from more recent wars too, but we forget when we go to the polling booths.
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