A League of Their Own : She So Purposely Dropped That Ball

She So Purposely Dropped That Ball

for her sister. C'mon, she held onto the ball with a harder hit from a bigger girl previously and held on to the ball falling into the dugout. She's a toughie but had a soft spot for her sister always being in her shadow.

This should be a no-brainer and not a debate.

Re: She So Purposely Dropped That Ball

Yeah, I always take that bit during the season montage, when Dottie gets run over in a similar fashion by a bigger girl (a Racine Belle no less) and still manages to hold on to the ball, as foreshadowing.

Re: She So Purposely Dropped That Ball

I agree. It truly amazes me how people can even debate it.

As if it isn't obvious enough there is also the opening sequence which sets it up with her telling the older grandson to let the younger one win.

She had to let her win to give her confidence & allow her to step out of her shadow. It was an act of love.

100% Debateable

It shouldn't amaze you when things are left completely open for interpretation like this.

I always thought that she DIDN'T drop the ball on purpose. Just because she held onto the ball ONCE, that doesn't mean that she's gonna hold onto it every time.

Besides, Kit probably had more determination to knock the ball out of her glove than any base-runner in history!

And telling the older grandson to let the younger one win doesn't prove anything. Maybe in hindsight, she realizes that it was a good thing that she dropped the ball because Kit really needed to win (for once!), and she sees now that maybe she was a bit rough on her little sister growing up (People tend to learn from their mistakes)

I really believe that Dottie wanted to win at that time. She didn't drive all the way back from Yellowstone JUST to throw a game for her sister--She came back to WIN! (And don't forget how she told the pitcher to ONLY throw her high ones)

And you could also argue that she didn't intentionally drop the ball, but she dropped it subconsciously because way deep down inside, she knew her sister needed to win WAY more than she did.

I am truly amazed at people who come to these boards, read other people's thoughts (that they had not thought of before), and STILL remain so narrow-minded that they can't consider for even a second that other interpretations (besides their own) might actually be possible.

After all, isn't that what these boards are for? To open up your mind and make you think a little?

Re: 100% Debateable

Ignoring the setup shots, you have to consider impact. If Dottie dropped the ball because the other player hit her, why didn't the ball pop out of her hand or go flying off? Dottie hits the ground, her arm hits the ground, her hand hits the ground, beat beat beat beat beat, then her hand rolls open releasing the ball.

Her hand opens. That's not an interpretation; watch the scene again. It's like saying Jimmy didn't spit after walking away from Evelyn, the saliva dripped from his mouth.

Dottie gave Kit the World Series. And it pisses me off to no end when I watch that movie because Dottie didn't let herself get attached to the sport growing up. She helped on the farm and worked. Helped run the house, had a husband. She was playing ball longer than Kit (obviously). But she was too good at it, and too smart about it, to only be playing it because of natural ability. Like Jimmy said, she played it like she loved it. And the rest of the Peaches played it because they loved it and they worked their butts off. They deserved the World Series because they were better. Kit was a crybaby; she wanted passes and deals rather than carving out her own legacy. And Dottie should have stayed away if she wasn't going to play hard and help her team win because the Peaches basically ran their butts off for nothing.

Everything Is Open to Interpretation

Kit barreled into her so hard that she hit the ground so hard that it came out.

Yes, we see her hand OPEN--That typically happens when extremely-forceful things FORCE your fist to unclench.

And remember that we're watching it in slow motion--Things happen MUCH slower that way.

Look--It can go either way--Why do people have to be so determined that THEIR interpretation is the only possible way it can be?

Can't you just accept the possibility that other interpretations other than your own exist? Come on--Open your mind a little. I know you can do it!

(And by the way, I totally agree about Jimmy spitting--I saw the saliva too, but if somebody doesn't see it that way, that's okay too!)

Re: 100% Debateable

You said it perfectly and you are right. She clearly drops the ball on purpose. It is not that hard to hold onto a baseball in a collision. She gave her bratty childish sister the win and she shafted her team. She had no right to do it. She should have stayed away.

Re: Love but not a fanatic.

Yes, Dottie loves to play.

But remember that Dottie is a pragmatist with both feet firmly planted in reality.

Dottie loves to play but it's JUST A GAME.

She even says so at one point.

She doesn't see a future in it. She loves to play, she played and she'll probably play with her children as they grow older and maybe in church leagues, etc.

But baseball isn't her life.

Let her team down? Yes. But for them there will be other games.

She weighed the negatives her her team losing with the positives of giving Kit (yes, the spoiled, whiny crybaby) the last little push to be independent and break away to make her own life.

Had things gone the other way, Kit would have returned to Oregon with Dottie and Bob and possibly never played again. This way, she stayed, got a job, played again and eventually got married. She grew into her own person.

Yeah, I think Dottie threw the game but you'd be hard pressed to prove it. None of her teammates or Jimmy ever called her on it. None accused her of it. It was an opportunity to give her sister a gift and would forever be a secret. Because if Kit knew Dottie had thrown the game things would be even worse between them.

Dottie took a chance and it paid off. Also a theme of the movie.

Re: Love but not a fanatic.

Definitely other games, but maybe never another championship. To let a whole team of supposed friends down, some of whom had their own issues and continued working through their obstacles (unlike that bratty little sister of dottie's - I think I've purposely blocked her name because I can never remember it) was horrible of dottie.

Re: Love but not a fanatic.

Yes, Dottie loves to play.

But remember that Dottie is a pragmatist with both feet firmly planted in reality.

Dottie loves to play but it's JUST A GAME.

She even says so at one point.

She doesn't see a future in it. She loves to play, she played and she'll probably play with her children as they grow older and maybe in church leagues, etc.

But baseball isn't her life.

Let her team down? Yes. But for them there will be other games.

She weighed the negatives her her team losing with the positives of giving Kit (yes, the spoiled, whiny crybaby) the last little push to be independent and break away to make her own life.

Had things gone the other way, Kit would have returned to Oregon with Dottie and Bob and possibly never played again. This way, she stayed, got a job, played again and eventually got married. She grew into her own person.

Yeah, I think Dottie threw the game but you'd be hard pressed to prove it. None of her teammates or Jimmy ever called her on it. None accused her of it. It was an opportunity to give her sister a gift and would forever be a secret. Because if Kit knew Dottie had thrown the game things would be even worse between them.

Dottie took a chance and it paid off. Also a theme of the movie.

Re: 100% Debateable


You said it perfectly and you are right. She clearly drops the ball on purpose. It is not that hard to hold onto a baseball in a collision. She gave her bratty childish sister the win and she shafted her team. She had no right to do it. She should have stayed away.

ITA!!!! I was so mad that she made that decision on her own, the Peaches deserved the win. Then I saw Rosie ODonnell cry and then I was happy they lost HAHAHA

Re: 100% Debateable

I'm with you, the movie's message seems to be crybabies win because someone will feel sorry them and give them a break. Also, it didn't seem fair to Dottie's teammates to throw the game just to make her kid sister feel good about herself. I would rather have seen Kit win it outright, rise above her whiny attitude. That's a better message.

There's no terror in a bang, only in the anticipation of it. -Hitchcock

Re: 100% Debateable

Agree.

Re: 100% Debateable

Agreed, I never felt that Dottie dropped it on purpose. The fact that she held onto in on a previous occasion means nothing. In basketball I can make a tough 3 point shot and then miss an easy 2 pointer. It happens and I certainly did not do it intentionally. That other girl might have been bigger than Kit but Kit was extremely determined and on that day in that instance she prevailed.

Re: 100% Debateable

@soggybottom: very well put. I agree with you 100%.

Re: 100% Debateable

She dropped it, no doubt. The fact that they're sisters makes it even more obvious. She GREW UP with that little, whiny, annoying person probably trying to knock her down her whole life. She would be more than prepared to take one more hit from her.

Re: She So Purposely Dropped That Ball

That's true. It's a good thing she screwed over teammates so that her sister could feel rosy. Dottie's actions are similarly questionable when she immediately ditches her team after her husband shows up. I understand that her character was never really into it, but why quit so close to the end of the season? Are we supposed to believe that her husband would mind taking in a world series before heading back to Oregon? These two points are the main failings of a movie which should have portrayed its heroine and women as more serious athletes.

Re: She So Purposely Dropped That Ball

No, she didn't tell the older one to let the younger one win, but to let him have a shot, just like she did for whiny little Kit.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

Re: She So Purposely Dropped That Ball

Yes.. Dottie is far and away the best player in the league.. The look on Hanks face basically acknowledges it. She could do anything she wanted to on the field but her compassion for her sister took over in that moment..

Re: She So Purposely Dropped That Ball

As much as alot of people feel about "the love of a sister", which is a good sentiment, I think it is a real mistake to deny Kit's character the grit, determination, and accomplishment of finally becoming what she had wanted to since the first 2 minutes of the film.

Secondly, it is a rude departure from one other very important theme of the film, teammates and sportsmanship. If any of the Peaches thought that Dottie threw the game, she would be skewered. And if it was so obvious to you that she did, so it would be to those playing on her team. To add: Dropping the ball on purpose would also be analogous to her spitting on the rest of her teammates. There is no greater offence in a team sport. One of the many themes in the movie is integrity and sportsmanship. That doesn't work. She didn't drop it on purpose.

So what's the message?

A. Older sister, who happens to be a very good athlete and loves the game and competition, and who has been dealing with an (I think we all agree) generally unlikable character of her younger sister, throws the biggest game in her life and in effect stabs the hearts of her teammates minutes after instructing the pitcher exactly how to defeat her little sister, by intentionally dropping the ball in a completely unexpected, and it the case of Kit, ill advised showdown at home plate.

or

B. A younger sister, who has spent all her life living in the shadow of her older, more beautiful an more talented older sister, has one chance to erase all her fears (did you see the shot of her 'on deck' - "c'mon Kit, you have to bat next!") and through determination and 'heart' becomes the hero she always wanted to be. And ignoring the 'safe' route by recklessly running through the 'hold up' sign at 3rd base, and use that determination and pent up frustration to ultimately 'take' that win instead of having it given to her.

I like B.


You just have to be resigned-
You're crashing by design

Re: She So Purposely Dropped That Ball

There was never any debate!! You were always supposed to believe she dropped the ball on purpose!

Re: She So Purposely Dropped That Ball


There was never any debate!! You were always supposed to believe she dropped the ball on purpose!


Spot on! Not everything comes down to opinion or interpretation in films.

Re: She So Purposely Dropped That Ball

Spot off! Yet another person who can't handle other opinions/interpretations other than her own.

Re: She So Purposely Dropped That Ball

Yes I can't handle the opinion of someone I've never met. My point is not all scripts are left open to interpretation.

They So Purposely Left It Open…

At least you can admit it. Most people on these boards can't (although I can't see why whether or not you've met the person should matter when it comes to opening your mind a little bit and taking into consideration other people's ideas)

You're right--Not all things are directly left open to interpretation, but I think this one really is.

Here's a quote for you to think about...

Throw her nothing but high ones. She can't hit 'em, and she can't lay off 'em

Why would they have put that in there if they wanted to make is SOOOO clear that she was going to throw the game for her sister? Remember that this was said just three pitches right before the big play.

Re: They So Purposely Left It Open…

I think she fully intended to beat her but couldn't do it in the end. Something made her change her mind. She realised Kit had to win to move on with her life. Dottie's life was complete already.

Fair Enough…

I can buy that explanation, but she sure changed her mind in a hurry.

But now can you at least say that it wasn't obvious as you thought? People see things differently, and that's what I like about coming to these boards--To see ideas that I never thought of before.

The problem I have with these boards is that people are so determined to be right and are so determined that the opposing viewpoint just HAS to be wrong that they never take a second to say "Gee, I never thought of that" because all they want to do is WIN the argument...

...which is EXACTLY why I have a hard time accepting the fact that Dottie just threw the game. It's human nature to always win, and she was extremely competitive the entire movie.

But I gotta give it to ya MissCars--You're A LOT better than most people on here.

Re: Fair Enough…

I do know what you mean. Forums are full of people so shy in real life that they become loud mouth monsters on the net to make them feel good about themselves. IMDB is full of them. They argue for arguements sake.

Back to the point in hand though - in this case I truly believe that whether it has now become a debate or not it wasn't intended to be by the writers.

Older Dottie at the beginning proves she learnt being competitive & winning wasn't her priority when she tells the older Grandson to let his little brother win the basketball game. It bookends the last bit where she throws the game for her sister.

I must admit I am not a competitive person in general so maybe I'm not the best example but if I knew a loved one could be happy, overcome their demons & enjoy life by me simply being a "loser" just once in my life I would do it in a heartbeat.

I'm Out…

I don't know what the writer's intention was, but the way that the final product turned out, it left it wide open for debate.

Yeah, it's obvious that "older Dottie" learned a good lesson there, but did she learn it BEFORE or AFTER the big play?

I can see that you're a good-hearted person who probably wouldn't mind being a "loser" for the right reasons (and that's very admirable of you), but in that big of a game with so much on the line on that one play, I can't see anybody doing it (not even you).

Look at it this way: Had she held onto the ball, the score is STILL tied and game moves on. Kit would still have more opportunities to help her team win. It's not like the game ends right there with Kit being the big loser.

Besides, with how fast things happen in games, I really don't think Dottie had enough time to analyze all of this. In one split second, she going to go from doing everything she could to help her team win to "Oh, but if we win, then Kit's gonna hate me forever, and I'll have to deal with an annoying little sister for the rest of my life who is going to insist on holding a grudge against me and I'll never hear the end of it..."

Anyway, I'm talked enough about this. I'm going to go ahead and declare myself the "loser" and you the "winner".

Hell, if it worked for Dottie, maybe it'll work for me.

Re: I'm Out…

Well I respecfully disagree that a game comes anytwhere near as important to someone you love but I am happy to agree to disagree :)

Re: Fair Enough…

Old Dottie did NOT tell the older grandson, Jeffrey, to let his brother WIN. She told him to "give him a chance to shoot". (I just watched that scene on Netflix to confirm that direct quote.)

Regardless, she dropped the ball on purpose. The force of the collision proves she did. Watch the scene and you'll see Dottie knocked off her feet, but the ball just trickles a couple of inches away from her fingers after her hand hit the ground and laid there for a count. Had the ball been jarred loose because of the hit, it would have gone flying as soon as her hand hit the ground.

I am a competitive person and I couldn't throw a game, let alone a championship. I'm a middle child, between brothers, and we all wanted to beat each other.



This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

Re: Fair Enough…

@soggybottom: I really like your interpretation.

In the deleted scenes of the film (on the special edition DVD), extra scenes show how Dottie will do anything to win a game- including knocking out a pregnant teammate to the point of having her need medical attention. Kit even scolds her for "always having to win."

I also think Dottie dropped the ball accidentally. Not only does she say "high fast balls" to the picture, but the split second before Kit knocks into her, Dottie's face is looking scared and unprepared. There's no way in that instant she would be able to say "let me just drop the ball and let this bytch win." No way at all.

PLUS from a storyteller's perspective it doesn't make narrative sense for her to just let Kit win. The point of the story was that Kit was always second fiddle to Dottie. Dottie was better at everything, and Dottie GOT Kit everything (on the train, in the league, etc). The ending was supposed to symbolize Kit getting it on her own. Even the end shows this ("You wanted it more then me, you did what you had to do.") Dottie was not the type to just bow down like that.

Re: Fair Enough…

In all fairness, a change of heart can happen in a split second, if not sooner. I thought at that moment she decided that her team was worth sacrificing for the sake of her sister. It was selfish, but to me seemed deliberate.

When you're 17 a cow can seem dangerous and forbidden...am I alone here?

Sorry But Thinking Takes Time

A split second? Really?

I guess it depends on how fast of a thinker you are. For me, it takes a few seconds to process any kind of a thought, and of course it would take A LOT longer when making a big decision, like this one, and she really didn't have much time to think between pitches.

That's why I think that the argument works better if you say that she dropped it subconsciously. Because consciously, she wanted to do whatever it took to prove to the team that they needed her back to win, but I can see how someone might reason that deep down inside, she knew that her sister needed it more.

I just can't see with how competitive she was the entire film that she would willingly lose the game on purpose.

And as I've stated many times on this thread, holding onto the ball wouldn't make Kit lose. The game would've remained tied and gone on into extra innings. Kit would have had other opportunities to be the hero WITHOUT any help from her sister.

Re: Sorry But Thinking Takes Time

The split second could have also been the length if time she thought it was a good idea, but it happened at a really crappy time unfortunately. It's just a stab in the dark, though, rewatching today it seemed much more obvious that they wanted it to be ambiguous. It certainly makes for a fun debate though.

When you're 17 a cow can seem dangerous and forbidden...am I alone here?

Amen Shiza!

I totally agree Shiza, and I'm actually a fan of both sides. I think it's interesting if she dropped it on purpose, and it's interesting if she didn't (or somewhere in between)

One of the best arguments for dropping it on purpose (that I haven't seen on this board yet) is the scene where Dottie looks over into the opponents' dugout and sees Kit crying. I think that they were trying to show us that Dottie was starting to care about her little sister's feelings for once, and that may have had some impact on the final play.

I'm sure that the debate will continue on this board for years to come!

Re: Sorry But Thinking Takes Time

Plenty of opportunities? How do you figure that? The game could have ended the next inning without Kit coming to the plate again. She'd already been taken out as pitcher after getting rocked, and she may never have gotten to field a ball the rest of the game. Haven't you ever played a game and never had ball hit to you? Have you ever played?

The way it was filmed, she dropped the ball on purpose. It wasn't her hand hitting the ground and the ball flying out, her hand was on the ground and the ball trickles out, rolling less than a foot from her hand. She committed the ultimate sports betrayal.

Oh, and not all of us need to over analyze a situation before making a decision.



This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

Re: Fair Enough…

You're a piece of work. Bitch and moan about people not being able to see another's point of view, then doing exactly what you're crying about.


This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

Re: They So Purposely Left It Open…

I always used to think that Dottie dropped the ball on purpose. I watched the movie again a couple of days ago, and I'm not sure I think that way anymore. I think that Dottie was extremely ticked off at her sister, and was determined to shut her down... UNTIL she saw her freaking out in the dugout. I think that once that happened, she realized it wasn't important. She still played her best, but she wasn't playing with the sole purpose of beating her sister. If she had still been as pissed off as she was at the beginning of the game, I think she would have held on to that ball for dear life just out of spite. Now I just believe what Dottie said at the end: Kit just wanted it more than her.

I do believe that Dottie was happy for Kit, though. I can also understand why people think she dropped it on purpose. The next time I watch it, I may change my mind again. :)

Finally!

Thanks Acquiese. That's the best post on this thread yet!

Everything that you said is very thought-provoking and extremely important to the build-up of the climactic play. What was going through her mind? Was she really feeling that bad for her sister? Was she trying as hard as she could to help the team to prove to her coach and her teammates that they were right to let her come back to the team?

She could STILL hang onto the ball, and not make Kit the big loser. The game would've still gone on. I think that had Racine lost because of Kit on that play, people would've had a better argument that Dottie felt so bad for her that she had to throw the game.

I liked talking to MissCars--She was really nice, but she so was so determined to not budge an inch, and I can't understand why people have to be that way.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with things being capable of going 2 different ways. People just can't stand to have a shred of doubt about anything, and that's sad.

I think that you can really choose your own ending for this movie. However you want it to be, you're right! What's wrong with that?

Re: Finally!

But that WAS the final out of the series! Had Dottie tagged Kit, the game would have been over.

Re: Finally!

Nope, the game would've still been tied and kept on going.

Remember, Kit was the WINNING run, not the tying run.

what a…

she dropped the ball because she knew thats what she had to do to mend/keep a relationship with her sister because kit is a horrible spiteful selfish cow

Re: what a…

She dropped the ball on purpose. Kit wanted the spotlight for once in her life and Dotti gave it to her. I was a catcher and have gotten run into many of times and held on to the ball every time so it is not hard once you have the ball to safely secure it in your glove. Dotti clearly had enough time to get the ball in her glove and position herself to make the tag.

Re: what a…

I honestly the scene is just poorly filmed, and looks like Dotty dropped the ball on purpose.

It should have come flying out at the moment of impact, but for dramatic purposes they had Dottie hold on longer, so they could show the close-up of the ball dropping. I believe all the debate is the result of the director not watching enough MLB home plate collisions and nothing more.

No way Dottie would have thrown the game in my opinion.

Re: what a…

It really doesn't matter. Kit was out. Dottie was still holding the ball until she hit the ground. The impact didn't jar the ball loose (in which case Kit would have been safe) so the umpire blew the call.

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Re: She So Purposely Dropped That Ball

And you're one of those people. Obviously you can't take someone expressing their opinion.

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

Come Again?

I can take it just fine. What makes you think that I can't?

Are you sure that you replied to the right person? I've done nothing on this thread but say (over and over) how it can go either way--It's up to each person to interpret that scene to fit their own desires, and NOBODY can be wrong (And I'm totally open to new interpretations too if anybody has any by the way).

If that so OBVIOUSLY proves that I can't handle other people's opinions, then I guess you're right.

My apologies.

Re: She So Purposely Dropped That Ball

Isn't it amazing how you cry for others to accept other opinions, yet you whine when someone expresses their opinion. Why is that?


This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.
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