Clerks : Jedi better than Empire??

Jedi better than Empire??

Something I never understood was Randall saying 'blasphemy!' when Dante said he preferred Empire over Jedi. Isn't the general consensus that Empire is not only better than Jedi, but is the best Star Wars movie of the entire saga?? Almost everyone would agree with Dante on this one. This would be like someone saying 'blasphemy' to someone saying they think the original Psycho is better than Psycho 2. Of course they're going to say that.
I realize that Randall's own personal opinion may be that Jedi is better and that's all well and good, but he shouldn't have been surprised to hear Dante or anyone else say otherwise.

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

Well you've got to remember that Randall is a bit of an egotist. If he thinks he's right about something then everyone else has to be wrong. So when Dante reveals that he prefers Empire over Jedi, Randall calls it 'blasphemy', basically saying "How dare you have a different opinion to me." He doesn't really care because Dante gives his reasons for preferring Empire but he probably still thinks that he is correct in thinking Jedi is superior.

WINGED FREAK...Terrorizes?....Wait till they get a load of me...

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

i always liked jedi better when i was a kid. i guess randall is still a child at heart

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Re: Jedi better than Empire??


You've gotta understand that this film was made in the early '90s. Until around the late 90s/early 2000s, Empire was generally seen as the weakest of the trilogy. Not only that, but Hope was considered the only good film of the trilogy, with Jedi and Empire thought of as being unnecessary add-ons.


?????????????? Are you kidding me? I grew up on these movies (having seen all three of them in their first run in the movie theater) and the general consensus of everyone I knew, as well as the media, was that Empire was always the best one. I don't remember anyone thinking that Jedi or Empire were unnecessary add-ons.

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Re: Jedi better than Empire??

The only negative comments I ever heard about the sequels were about the Ewoks.

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

I concur, Willydoe. I also recall people ripping on "Empire" because it left off so open-ended that it was a blatant money-grab to make another sequel. but that's about it as far as the negatives go. Most people at that time considered "Empire" to be great and were more let down by the children's marketing of Jedi with the Ewoks, the goofy fish-head alien ("It's a trap") and the overall happy, syrupy ending all tied up neatly in a little red bow with the Ghosts of Jedi Past smiling and waving.



GO SEAHAWKS! WORLD CHAMPIONS!

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

Dude thats Jedi, not Empire. You got the movies switched up.

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

Sunfreez you're a dumbass.




"Seahawks-38, Patriots- 0"- AH_Fan


Re: Jedi better than Empire??

Well I must have been living under the same rock.

I saw all the original Star Wars movies on their first run when I was a kid, and even won a competition to see the premiere of 'The Return of the Jedi' (met Lucas and co' afterwards. The cast signed a copy of the script for me, and had the usual photos taken with them etc. Great childhood memory).

Anyway, pretty much instantly Empire was seen as the best of the trilogy. I never once heard a Star Wars fan proclaiming Jedi was the better movie. That being said, as a child I absolutely loved Jedi. I just preferred Empire.

...and don't point your fooking tentacles at me! ~District 9

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

I hate to inform you sir, but you are quite possibly making up facts.

Everyone has considered Empire the backbone of the franchise. Personally, I'm a Jedi fan, which is considered the weakest in the trilogy. I remember those times quite well, and the rankings were: Empire, Hope, Jedi.

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Re: Jedi better than Empire??

Nah, dude, don't worry. I don't know what's up with these clowns, but everyone knows Empire is the best Star Wars that ever was or ever will be. Hell, Jedi is considered a bit of a joke by many hardcore fans thanks mainly to the lame ewoks.

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

Technically, there was never even supposed to be an Empire or Jedi. Lucas says in the original Making of Star Wars doc that he wrote the story and it was supposed to be done with. Then, they wanted sequels and he's like "Oh, crap, I killed my mentor character! What do I do now?" and some mad scrambling later, he pulls Empire and Yoda out of his butt. Only in later interviews does he state that it was a planned trilogy from the beginning. I call Shenanigans!

I'm not sure why people consider Empire better. Maybe it's because so much was revealed in the story, or the fact that Kershner directed it, and did a better job, or what. But people have constantly riffed on Jedi because of the Ewoks. Barney Stinson has a theory about the age of the viewer when they first saw Jedi, and whether or not they liked the movie. If they under 12, they'll love it because the Ewoks remind them of their teddies. If their in their teens or older, they'll hate it and think the Ewoks were stupid.

I was 9 and have loved it for over 30 years. Personally, I think Jedi has the best opening (Sarlac Pit battle) and Standoff (lightsaber duel). But I'm just a fan, not a critic or anything.

---
We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

Gold bikini

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

You're all wrong. The general consensus is that Jedi is hands down the weakest of the trilogy, but as far as A New Hope and the Entire Strikes Back it's a toss-up between those 2. Empire Strikes back has slightly more of a following, but anyone who knows there *beep* can realize A New Hope was the best - especially when you put into context that it was the first movie of its kind to pull something like that off.

Re: Jedi better than Empire??


especially when you put into context that it was the first movie of its kind


Yeah but that doesn't determine quality. Empire is the better movie in almost every single way.

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

Randal does a lot of things just to be a dick. But anyway, once you get past the Ewoks and the out-of-nowhere revelation about Luke and Leia there's a lot to love about Jedi. Luke stops being a whiny putz and becomes a complete badass and his arc with Vader makes the movie.

Re: Jedi better than Empire??


You're all wrong. The general consensus is that Jedi is hands down the weakest of the trilogy, but as far as A New Hope and the Entire Strikes Back it's a toss-up between those 2. Empire Strikes back has slightly more of a following, but anyone who knows there *beep* can realize A New Hope was the best - especially when you put into context that it was the first movie of its kind to pull something like that off.
- bconrath

Actually, although 'Star Wars' (or 'A New Hope' as some younger fans call it) was a great movie that proves, along with 'THX 1138' and 'American Graffiti', that George Lucas was a very talented director, 'The Empire Strikes Back' is superior as a movie due to plot complexity, performances (not to say that they were bad in 'Star Wars'... hell they had Peter Cushing in that one!), effects, writing, dialogue and direction. I'd say for those reasons that the second 'Star Wars' movie was the best.

'Jedi', however, is not as bad a movie as some try to claim now, but when Gary Kurtz was director it was going to be better. The Ewoks (I do not hate them mind) were going to be tough reptilians and it was going to be darker and more bittersweet - as well as setting up elements in a later trilogy of movies )Kurtz's and Lucass idea was to make it a proper serial with more adventures... and I say Kurtz because he is really the co-creator of the original 'Star Wars' series even if he was not main writer). Han Solo was also going to die... and one of the things I might prefer about the filmed version of the movies originally called 'Revenge of The Jedi' is that he lived. But I must admit that his death would have added some pathos and probably would have helped it be a greater movie than the one we got.


Randal does a lot of things just to be a dick. But anyway, once you get past the Ewoks and the out-of-nowhere revelation about Luke and Leia there's a lot to love about Jedi. Luke stops being a whiny putz and becomes a complete badass and his arc with Vader makes the movie.


Indeed!

Formerly KingAngantyr

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

Guys... Star Wars is a saga! One of the greatest sagas of all time! Hope Empire and Jedi are all parts of the great WHOLE! They are all great!

They never found the second dose!

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

Technically, there was never even supposed to be an Empire or Jedi. Lucas says in the original Making of Star Wars doc that he wrote the story and it was supposed to be done with. Then, they wanted sequels and he's like "Oh, crap, I killed my mentor character! What do I do now?" and some mad scrambling later, he pulls Empire and Yoda out of his butt. Only in later interviews does he state that it was a planned trilogy from the beginning. I call Shenanigans!

I'm not sure why people consider Empire better. Maybe it's because so much was revealed in the story, or the fact that Kershner directed it, and did a better job, or what. But people have constantly riffed on Jedi because of the Ewoks. Barney Stinson has a theory about the age of the viewer when they first saw Jedi, and whether or not they liked the movie. If they under 12, they'll love it because the Ewoks remind them of their teddies. If their in their teens or older, they'll hate it and think the Ewoks were stupid.

I was 9 and have loved it for over 30 years. Personally, I think Jedi has the best opening (Sarlac Pit battle) and Standoff (lightsaber duel). But I'm just a fan, not a critic or anything.

---
We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.

Re: Jedi better than Empire??


Standoff (lightsaber duel).


Yes. While the prequels had all the fancy fighting and flipping, the duel in ROTJ had more emotion and drama behind it than all the lightsaber fights in the prequels combined.

Can't stop the signal.

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

This was written back when it wasn't as easy to gouge general consensuses (ie, no Internet), so maybe Jedi was considered better or at least equal just in Smith's circle of friends.

http://www.dorkly.com/post/73323/5-star-wars-prequel-complaints-the-internet-needs-to-retire

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

It was a joke. Smith knew that most people preferred Empire.

Promo for my film about self-injury:
https://vimeo.com/140529647

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

One thing's for sure, the special edition of "Jedi" makes the film even weaker.

"Don't believe everything you hear on the radio." - Charles Foster Kane

Re: Jedi better than Empire??


One thing's for sure, the special edition of "Jedi" makes the film even weaker.


Oh god, that new song with the CGI characters dancing in Jabba's palace. The whole thing looked like it belonged in a B-grade Dreamworks movie.

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

Victory Celebration makes the film stronger versus Yub Nub.

But if you're watching a post-'97 version with Hayden's head on Sebastian Shaw's body, it's weaker again.

My enjoyment levels (not quality assessment):

Star Wars 6 > 4 > 7 > 3 somehow > 5
Batman Begins > TDKR > TDK
Matrix 3 > 2 > 1

~unique snowflake~

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

Randall was kind of a pre-internet troll.

Anyone here mentions Hotel California dies before the first line clears his lips.

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

Randal also made it a point to be anti-establishment and go against 'the system' on pretty much everything. Chances are he chose to prefer Jedi exactly because it was generally considered among the fans to be the lesser film of the trilogy and gave him fuel on which to start arguments and belittle people in his famous tirades.

Re: Jedi better than Empire??

This was back in 1994, it seems that the consensus that Empire is better than Jedi didn't come around until much later. Personally I think Empire is the greatest film ever made while Jedi is a major downgrade from the first two. Jedi had some good parts but it had way too many bad parts.

"I really wish Gia and Claire had became Tanner" - Honeybeefine
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