Pearl Harbor : The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day...

The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day...

considering how overtly they were villainized by Bay with not even a hint of humanity or character.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day...

Well if you look at the way the Japanese behaved from the 1930s to 1945 then it seems reasonable to most people who are not right wing Japanese politicians to paint them as bad guys because they were bad guys.

Japan was a fascist dictatorship for its own people and hell for the people who lived in their short lived empire.


I have met people who were prisoners of the Japanese and all their lives they looked skinny like junkies,and one neighbour used to scream out in the night due to his experiences.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

Who were the bad guys? God it is amazing how much Americans white wash and overly simplify WW2. We were the good guys, they were the bad guys. We forget about the 69 Japanese cities which were destroyed between 25-85% by firebombing and atomic bombs. How civilians were targeted in a fashion no different than al-qaeda - I mean the Japanese fighters did not shoot at civilians in Pearl Harbor. How rape by American soldiers in Japan continues until today. Yeah, Americans were the good ones...

Anyone who says that the nukes were necessary to end the war, simply don't know history (and just believe propaganda).

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

Frak off troll.

Yes... we were the good guys, and still are.
Japanese were the bad guys, but no more, now they're good guys too.


The crap you spewed is complete bullsh!t.


We forget about the 69 Japanese cities which were destroyed between 25-85% by firebombing and atomic bombs.

That's how wars were fought then. You took out whole cities in order to strike the factories, the ammunition plants, and other war materials supply and manufacturing centers.
We did not have GPS and laser guided bombs that could surgically enter a ventilation shaft, take out a bunker, and leave the surrounding building intact.


How civilians were targeted in a fashion no different than al-qaeda


Seriously? you are one screwed up and deluded nutjob. Seek help for your delusions. Before you go Jared Lee Loughner on somebody.


I mean the Japanese fighters did not shoot at civilians in Pearl Harbor.


They didn't at Pearl, but they did at quite a number of other locations throughout the war. We on the other hand.... Did NOT. Yes, we bombed Cities. Cities that were the centers of industry and part of the Imperial war manufacturing.


How rape by American soldiers in Japan continues until today.

Rape happens everywhere. It's wrong no matter who does it.

But you in your sheer STUPIDITY... are equating individual actions (some of who wear a uniform, to the wholesale actions of the entire Japanese Army (rape of Nanking)


The Difference that you are too stupid to understand, or too evil to admit to...
Is that if an American soldier rapes someone, they are a criminal and punished.
Like any other criminal.

WW2 Japanese military CONDONED and raped subjugated peoples, namely Chinese and many Philippine women too, as a matter of policy.


Anyone who says that the nukes were necessary to end the war, simply don't know history (and just believe propaganda).

Not necessary to end the war... But necessary to end the war quickly without dragging it on further to it's inevitable conclusion with MILLIONS more in casualties, both our soldiers AND the Japanese people.

In anticipation of Operation downfall, so many Purple Hearts were manufactured in advance, that to this day, both during Iraq, and still in Afghanistan, enough surplus Purple Hearts exist that they are able to keep the medals on hand for immediate awarding to soldiers in the field.

You clearly are too *beep* ignorant to understand that despite the horrific loss of life.... The Atomic bombs SAVED millions more in ending the war quickly before we had to invade the home islands.


I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

Yes, you were the good guys. Not the case anymore. Ever since the Iraq, and the stupid excuses the American population belived as the "cause" of the war, USA has lost all of their credibility as the "good guys"... Same stuff happening now, the vast irresponsibility with causing, and funding the so called "Arab spring".
It's funny that you accuse someone of one dimnesional picture of WWII, while you yourself have one... You see, Japan, and it's right wing government were aiming at Korea/China (as they've always had for centuries). The Indochina theater, and broading of the conflict was caused by the USA... Economic sanctions my dear, Japan was cut off from resources, and so they tried to eliminate the Pacific Fleet of the USA, before they would turn for the oil and rubber resources of Asia... American government was well aware that their actions will provoke a war with Japan.
But once again - Japanese were bad guys there, they did horrible, horrible things to the conquered nations (Chinese mostly), as well as the POW.

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Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

So you have decided I will go to hell in the afterlife... Nice *beep*
You are exactly what you claim I am.

Have a nice life *beep*

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

The fact you say so clearly you are the good guys when you should know NOTHING IS THIS WORLD IS SO BLACK AND WHITE, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO WAR. you are supposed to be a soldier yet your dumbarse can't even figure out the basics.

Why don't you look up steven Dale and see what he did to that poor little Iraqi girl, he raped her, burnt her body and house as well as killed all her family. Then you wonder why they hate invaders

Call yourself heroes ........

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

Yes, you piece of sh!t... We are the good guys.

Your example is the example of an INDIVIDUAL. Not systemic policy.

Atrocities happen on all sides during a war. Even our side.

But you, you sick frak... Want to equate the criminal action of an individual on our side, a criminal action not condoned and even prosecuted.... to condemn our entire side and equate it to the systemic and widely condoned atrocities commited on a wide scale by the other.

You cannot equate the two.




I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

You are absolutely correct!! FDR, along with international Jewry, desperately wanted a global war. The crushing sanctions that we placed on Japan are precisely why they attacked us at Pearl Harbor, an attack which Washington was well aware of in advance. This attack was deliberately provoked and knowingly allowed to occur, in order to gain the "legitimacy" for a full on war in the Pacific. I won't go into a long diatribe about WWII, but suffice it to say, those of us who study history beyond the propaganda, know that nearly everything taught in the West is a lie.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

I see. Yes I see. No mention that the oil and scrap metal embargo were a result, not a cause, of Japan's invasion of French Indochina. But of course they don't teach that in our "liberal" education courses today.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

Yes, Japan was the "bad guys" in WWII. And that is largely because they were the aggressor. The country that strikes first usually has a flimsy excuse to justify their actions, as was the case with Japan (no different than the US invading Iraq - virtually everywhere outside America's borders, people side with the US being the bad guy in that one).

But in defense of Japan, their "liberation" of Asian countries - stealing their resources in the name of ridding those countries of foreign white occupiers - is still no worse than anything any European and American colonial power had done before them. Case in point: something few Americans know or WANT to know is that Japan only became a military power after the US navy showed up on their shores in the mid-1850's and threatened to shell every city up the coast if Japan didn't open up a port and start trading with America. Japan had no modern warships at the time, and US Admiral Perry shelled a few buildings just to show what America was capable of. Defenseless and humiliated, Japan had no choice but to open up their country because of American aggression. (Yes, the US was the bad guys in that one, too).

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.


(no different than the US invading Iraq - virtually everywhere outside America's borders, people side with the US being the bad guy in that one)

And with that.. you failed your whole post.

Try reading something other than liberal leftwing bullsh!t next time.

Try actual FACTS.


I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

WTF "liberals" ??? Everybody on the planet nows that both of your parties are one and the same, as both are pursuing an aggressive neo-liberal agenda. Both are financed by the very same people.

Just admit that the US (a nation that conducted its own genocides in the past and that is still struggling with black emancipation) did their part of *beep* mate. Believing in a black 'n' white world just makes you as stupid as you appear, Jingo.

It's in shades of grey, really. Anyway, it's useless trying to talk about subtle matters with you exhalted Yanks who most likely believe that history of the Universe starts in 1776. I am pretty sure thatr if you were on the buisness end of an atom bomb instead of the Japanese we'd never hear the end of how it would be a inhumane thing done on poor martyrs, am I wrong? Ah but it's only Japs, after all - it's not like if they were real humans, huh?

I guess you also believe that our planet is like 10 thousand years old, do you? I hope you'll one day reap what you sown. Maybe it's coming faster than you think.

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Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

actually CGSailor. every single American War has been staged to happen in cooperation with your government. the truth hurts.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

So the United States staged the rise of Hitler?
The US Staged the rise of the Japanese Empire? Conspired to have Japan attack us?

ROFLMAO.. you are fraking retarded.

You do not have a pair of brain cells to rub together if you believe what you wrote. Truth hurts.


I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

Actually they did stage Pearl Harbor. by allowing it to happen. you really should do some research before you go bellowing off from within your own ass.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

I have done my research.

Unlike you and your conspiracy retard buddies... My research consists of actual research if actual facts, not simply going to like minded conspiracy sites where you listen to other consoiracy eetard validate your pet theories with no actual facts.

I don't go "bellowing from my own ass".

That's what you conspiracy fücktards do.


We did not "allow" Pearl Harbor to happen.

The idea that we allowed it to happen does not even make common sense for the reason you conspiracy retards claim is the reason it was allowed. The only way it makes sense is in the ignorant twisted minds of you retards that believe it.

Dunning-Kruger.
You have it bad.

You should see to it.



I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

I have done my research.

Unlike you and your conspiracy retard buddies... My research consists of actual research of actual facts, not simply going to like minded conspiracy sites where you listen to other conspiracy retards validate your pet theories with no actual facts.

I don't go "bellowing from my own ass".

That's what you conspiracy fücktards do.


We did not "allow" Pearl Harbor to happen.

The idea that we allowed it to happen does not even make common sense for the reason you conspiracy retards claim is the reason it was allowed. The only way it makes sense is in the ignorant twisted minds of you retards that believe it.

Dunning-Kruger.
You have it bad.

You should see to it.



I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

bb_bryson knows nothing about history. He obviously went to a college class taught by a left wing prof who spouted anti-American propaganda. I live in Bataan in the Philippines now. Perhaps you should look up the Bataan Death March and how they treated the Filipino citizens after Pearl Harbor. Check the Rape of Nanking to see what these "good guys" did to the Chinese and look up what happened in Singapore at the same time as Pearl harbor. They were just interested in taking over all of Asia. The soldiers of Japan were beasts who bayoneted babies among other atrocities. A-bombing Japan was absolutely necessary or up to 100,000 more US, Australian, and New Zealand troops would have lost their lives fighting a war was that already lost by the Japanese.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.


A-bombing Japan was absolutely necessary or up to 100,000 more US, Australian, and New Zealand troops would have lost their lives fighting a war was that already lost by the Japanese.


Heck, if we are to throw baseless numbers out of a hat why stop at 100,000 ???
A billion thousand lives sounds much more dramatic...

"The useless bombing of civilians save billions of thousands of American lives"
Much better-looking.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

the japanese were reprehensible monsters during WW2.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.


Well if you look at the way the Japanese behaved from the 1930s to 1945 then it seems reasonable to most people who are not right wing Japanese politicians to paint them as bad guys because they were bad guys.


Just looked it up. Wiki after wiki. Hundreds of thousands of Chinese, Filipinos and Koreans were killed by Japanese within that decade. More than the number of Hiroshima and Nagasaki victims. Watched youtube videos of hiroshima and nagasaki bombings and suddenly we're the only bad guys

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day...

Ok youre antiAmerican, spend a minute reading about what the Japanese did in China. The Nazis were amatures.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day...

Take a minute to read what America did to it's own American Japanese citizens.







Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day...

Yes, their Constituional rights were denied, specifially the right to due process. Seems the most loved of tyrants have never been fond of the Constitution; Lincoln, FDR and Obama. But, internment doesnt come close to being subjected to horrific medical experiments, rape, and enslavement.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day...

Lincoln, FDR and Obama tyrants? LOL. Someone has bee watching too much Fox News.

Sounds like an angry southerner still mad the South lost the Civil War, FDR creating social security, and America electing a black guy.

Get over it. You not liking someone doesn't make them an unconstitutional tyrant.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day...

Me not liking someone doesnt make their hatred of the Constitution untrue.
Lincoln suspended habeas corpus as well FDR and Obama. PROOVE that they didnt!!!
Obama is STILL murdering innocent civillians on his little drone war in Pakistan. Read his executive orders, I DARE YOU!! Lincoln sent hundreds of thousands to their deaths instead of respecting the rights of the individual state.....oh no it was about slavery..oh ok, WHY DIDNT HE JUST BUY THE SLAVES?!?! Whould been much cheaper in money, propery and lives. Oh yea, and the Japanese you pity......hmmm, internment....illegal imprisonment who oh yea FDR. Read a book on occasion, and dont believe everything the govmnt and the media feeds you. But, your a good little citizen, huh? sleep....dont question....sleep...dont question..good little citizen, good little citizen......

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day...

No harsh words for Goerge Bush???

Mr McGee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry!

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day...

HIs tyranny is assumed. Its all thoes "benevolent" dictators everyone seems to fallover themselves for.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

Don't forget Woodrow Wilson. Lincoln was an amateur compared to Wilson, who made it clear HE wasn't going to be subjected to the type of criticism Lincoln faced during HIS war. And he didn't, and it carried over for the rest of his term.

I believe also, it was Mr. Dubja Bush who called the Constitution "a scrap of paper", the same thing the Kaiser called the treaty with Belgium in 1914.



Do you hate me because I have no avatar? Do you even give a damn?

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.


Je_suis_le_vampire_Lestat

Take a minute to read what America did to it's own American Japanese citizens.
Yes the democrats ordering them into camps was evil .. as are most of the actions from that party.

However comparing the two is more than a little apples to cinder blocks.

Again, I am Not justifying the democrats actions but comparing that to the murders, rapes, torture, etc... that Japan did during the war, and the scale at which they carried them out we're talking enormous differences in the severity of the wrongs.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

Worked to death? Gassed? Vivisected? Please enlighten.



Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

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Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

Arguably one of the least abhorent treatments compared to other countries, even allies such as Russia and China.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

Oh wah wah... Americans can't take the slightest bit of criticism.

Anyway the reason most anyone replyed to this thread, was to point out, It's not that easy to say one side were purely good and only had good intentions while the other side side was just plain evil. In reality it's a lot more nuanced than that.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

Im not an american, so i wouldnt know. What americans did with their Japanese population was not nice, but to compare it to what other countries did at the time is ridiculous.

No, there were no good guys in world wars. US spent most of the time before it joined the war selling guns to both sides.

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The spirit of abysmal despair

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day...

What about the gunner who was trying to warn the kids?

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Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day...

You may be right but I always got the impression that because they were kids he was doing his best to signal them to get out of there or take cover.

Of course they probably would have no idea what he wanted and would just have been curious to see such unfamiliar and oddly marked aircraft flying by.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day...

Thinking back now The whole scene was the moments before all hell broke loose so I'm inclined to think the intention of the writer/director would have been for him to be trying to warn them as part of the whole 'sh!t's about to hit the fan' mood of that part of the movie.

Not the best movie but that part was well done, the Japanese planes closing in before the first torpedo/bomb was dropped. Nice bit of tension.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

Admiral Yamamoto was against going to war against the USA, he had lived in this country in his younger days and had seen the USA's potential. When he was told that Japan was going to fight the USA he did the best he could while knowing he only had a short period that he could dictate the fighting. He was the one that said " I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant". He was hamstrung by the Japanese leaders in the early days of 1942 or he could have done a lot more damage, but the Army pretty much had they say in how the war was fought. The choice of Admiral Nagumo was not really his, the culture of the Japanese navy was patterned after the British and for them seniority was everything. If he had chosen another Admiral to lead the attack, half the officers would have resigned in protest. But Nagumo was a battleship first admiral and very cautious, his indecision during at the worst moments would lead to disaster at Midway seven months later.

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Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day...

In some ways you have a point. However, the Empire of Japan was one of the most evil regimes this planet's ever seen. German SS Observers were physically sickened by what the saw Japanese troops do during the Rape of Nanking. And then there's Unit 731, and the Bataan Death March.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

The Japs were just as harsh with their own soldiers, maybe even more so than with POWs.

This being said, it's true that they committed horrible crimes against other Asian populations, and needed to be stopped. I just don't think that falling down to their moral level was the good thing to do.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.


not even a hint of humanity or character.


You have to take into account the culture and etiquette of Japan at the time.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

Well they were an extremely evil enemy just like the Nazis were.

Re: The Japanese may as well have been the aliens from Independance Day.

Well said.
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