A Christmas Carol : Scrooge's Final Christmas?

Scrooge's Final Christmas?

So the Christmas of the four ghosts would've been Scrooge's last? The Ghost of Christmas Future shows how Scrooge died very soon after Tiny Tim, and the Ghost of Christmas Present tells Scrooge that that Christmas would be Tim's last?

So Scrooge won an extension by saving Tim?



Marriage is between one man and one woman, to the exclusion of all others.

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

I always wondered about that, but if we are to look for a medical reason he might live longer than that Christmas, we can make a good guess. He was certainly a changed man, and I'd assume that his soul's reclamation and bright cheery outlook reduced his hypertension. They say laughter is the best medicine, and perhaps his new approach to living prevented a heart problem or stroke. In describing his death, the charwoman said he was alone gasping out his last breath. Perhaps in his new life, he wasn't alone and any medical problems would be noticed by his friends and family and attended to by a doctor, not dying incapacitated and undiscovered.

In any case, it would seem he did survive:


....and it was always said of him, that he knew how to keep Christmas well, if any man alive possessed the knowledge.


Seems for folks to say that of him (particularly in contrast to his previous life), he must have had many memorable Christmases.



Is very bad to steal Jobu's rum. Is very bad.

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?


So the Christmas of the four ghosts would've been Scrooge's last?


Yes - if Scrooge did not change, it would have been lights out for him forever that Christmas. He probably simply would have died in his sleep, before he ever woke up from his spirit journeys.


So Scrooge won an extension by saving Tim?


Not exactly, but saving Tim is indeed an example of why he won an extension.

Scrooge won an extension because he agreed to change his heart & spirit.

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

I assumed that all the scenes the Ghost of Christmas Yet To Come showed Scrooge were from the Christmas one year later. Only the Ghost of Christmas Past showed him scenes from different years. Everything the last Ghost showed him would happen next Christmas: Tiny Tim's death (as the Ghost of Christmas Present had foretold), and all the activities surrounding his own death: the other stock traders discussing the funeral, the thieving servants selling off his possessions, and finally the stone in the graveyard.

How exactly his life was saved isn't told. We only know that because he changed his ways, his fate was altered. Tiny Tim, we suppose, got medical help and became well again. Scrooge, we don't know. This could be one of those "butterfly effect" things; because he didn't continue on the path he'd been on, the circumstances that led him to die changed. Maybe he would have had an accident of some sort, and died of pneumonia in his cold room, but instead he never had the accident and went on to lead a happy life.

Flat, drab passion meanders across the screen!

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

Maybe changing made him healthier, for lack of a better term

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

I always assumed otherwise - certainly the past episodes were clearly different years, but the future episodes segue from one to the other (Tiny Tim's death being the first and presumably the next Christmas) with no indication if the others (all from the same time obviously) took place that year, the next year, or the year after that one. The Ghost of Christmas Yet To Come wasn't telling, because that's how he rolls.

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

I too tended to think that it was possibly more than one Christmas in the future. Bob makes no mention of Mr. Scrooges death (unless it happened without his knowledge) so I had always assumed that that was the very next Christmas and that Scrooges death was a few Christmases after that.


He's taking the knife out of the Cheese!
Do you think he wants some cheese?


Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

Yeah, that 'future' Bob Cratchet & his family seem to be in the same living situation as reality, I'd say Scrooge lives another 2-3yrs.

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Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

There is no evidence that all of the "Yet to Come" events happen the next year, outside of Tiny Tim's death. The others are just random, although the events specifically tied to Scrooge's death must, by logic, all occur at the same time (the sale of his personal items, the businessmen discussing his death, etc.).

In the story, there is the following, appearing right after Scrooge and the Spirit leave the Cratchit house after seeing Tiny Tim lying dead: "The Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come conveyed him, as before-- though at a different time, he thought: indeed, there seemed no order in these latter visions, save that they were in the Future--"...

The "different time" statement seems to make clear that these future events are not connected or simultaneous. So the notion that Scrooge would have died the next year, I'd say, is not supported by the original story.

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?


If these shadows remain unaltered by the Future, none other of my race,' returned the Ghost, `will find him here. What then. If he be like to die, he had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.'


This means that Tiny Tim would not see another Christmas.

I am not sure about the timing of Scrooge's death or that he won an extension by saving Tim. That is not the message I take. His life is extended, in my opinion, because mankind becomes his business. Of course his reformation means that he does help Tim, and the Cratchits. By his salvation so Tim is also saved.



Let's pray the human race never escapes Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. C.S Lewis

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

To me it's very clear that Christmas Yet to Come is showing Scrooge what happens next Christmas, Scrooge's death included. And it's always been my belief that not only does Scrooge get an extension because of his actions and his healthier attitude, but that Jacob Marley won this night because otherwise, there would have been no other chances to try to save Scrooge.

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?


To me it's very clear that Christmas Yet to Come is showing Scrooge what happens next Christmas,


I don't believe that it is the following Christmas, though I do believe it is probably prior to following Christmas.

Bob Cratchit:

"Yes, my dear," returned Bob. "I wish you could have gone. It would have done you good to see how green a place it is. But you'll see it often. I promised him that I would walk there on a Sunday. My little, little child!" cried Bob. "My little child!"


The fact that is green would suggest that it is not yet winter and therefore not yet Christmas.

I agree that his actions became his salvation, but not just towards Tiny Tim, but to his fellow man, who became his business!!

And Marley states that

A chance and hope of my procuring, Ebenezer."

So it is clear that Marley has beseeched for the second chance for Scrooge, and therefore ultimately his faith was rewarded.


Let's pray the human race never escapes Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. C.S Lewis

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

...only, the spirit here is the Ghost of Christmas Yet To Come, is it not? All three spirits are showing events from various Christmases: past, present and future. So although Bob makes a comment about the place being green, the scene is meant to be understood that it is a future Christmas.

Also, just a few sentences after the comment about the green place, the story relates that Bob left the family and went upstairs to the room where Tiny Tim's body was. "He left the room, and went upstairs into the room above, which was lighted cheerfully, and hung with Christmas. There was a chair set close beside the child..." etc. etc.

It was definitely Christmas time, and most likely the following Christmas, as the Ghost of Christmas Present saw 'a crutch without an owner.'

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

Fair point, I had forgotten about the room being hung for Christmas.
and it would certainly be the following Christmas.

It does not necessarily follow though, that all the visions were at Christmas, based on the fact that the spirit was Christmas Yet to Come.


though at a different time, he thought: indeed, there seemed no order in these latter visions, save that they were in the Future


Let's pray the human race never escapes Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. C.S Lewis

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

The Ghost of Christmas Past shows Scrooge the most scenes, and they're not all taking place at various Christmases, are they? The school scene, and the party where he proposes to Alice are indeed at Christmas, but what about Scrooge's first day at Mr. Jorkins's company, where he meets Marley? The takeover of Fezziwig's company? The board meeting? Those couldn't have been happening on Christmas day, though I had the impression they were happening in the winter, so maybe that's close enough. The last vision is of Marley's death, and we know that DID occur at Christmas, as Scrooge mentions it when the 2 men collecting for charity ask about his partner.

Flat, drab passion meanders across the screen!

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?


but what about Scrooge's first day at Mr. Jorkins's company, where he meets Marley? The takeover of Fezziwig's company? The board meeting? Those couldn't have been happening on Christmas day,


I highly doubt they are happening at Christmas, but beware all these scenes have been added, they are not in the book. But in regards to the film, I would agree with you.

Let's pray the human race never escapes Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. C.S Lewis

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

Yes. Unfortunately, more and more I have come to realize how much this film strays from the original story. I used to like it very much, and still like Sim's portrayal the best of them all, but the overall film now leaves me somewhat disappointed. The Jorkin character is the biggest travesty but it's not the only one.

As for the Christmas Yet to Come....I am not sure how these scenes cannot be connected to a future Christmas. Why call it the "Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come" then? Why not just call it "Ghost of Time yet to Come?" Not every scene specifically indicates that all of these visions are taking place in future Christmases, but there are a few. The scene of Scrooge witnessing two businessmen in the street discussing his death, one specifically says to the other "cold, isn't it?'' And the other replies "Seasonable for Christmas-time." Also the scene in the beetling shop, although it's not mentioned if it's Christmas, it does mention that Joe is sitting by a charcoal stove to screen himself "from the cold air without." And of course the lack of Tiny Tim the next year is a Christmas scene. I don't think there can be any doubt all of these scenes are meant to be "future Christmas," just like the other two were Christmas past and Christmas present.

This line - though at a different time, he thought: indeed, there seemed no order in these latter visions, save that they were in the Future - I took to mean, they were not in chronological order. Unlike the scenes shown by the Ghost of Christmas Past, which begin with Scrooge as a boy at the boarding school, then a young apprentice, then losing Belle, then seeing Belle with her family. Those were shown in chronological order. The statement above led me to believe the future scenes were not shown in chronological order, but they are still 'future Christmas' scenes.

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

I still think this is the best version despite the additions and also important scenes that are missing. There isn't a single film that doesn't add or delete a scene, so by comparison this is the best. I would love to have seen a film totally true to the book.

That said, the scene on Christmas morning with Mrs Dilber is one of the most moving and poignant scenes, albeit it wasn't in the book.

Let's pray the human race never escapes Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. C.S Lewis

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

If that really was to be Scrooge's final Christmas (if he didn't change), then that sheds a bigger light on his delight to find out that he didn't miss Christmas this year, doesn't it?

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

I always thought that Scrooge realized that he'd had a VERY narrow escape. One year - that's all he had left. It concentrates the mind, to paraphrase Dr. Johnson. He couldn't tell himself he'd think it over and maybe start gradually to reform. He threw himself head first into philanthropy because there was no time to lose! He couldn't even really know that his life would be extended, only that if he had to die, it wouldn't be in the squalid way the Ghost had showed him. He wanted to escape Jacob Marley's fate, not necessarily live another 30 years.

Flat, drab passion meanders across the screen!

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

I think that the Ghost of Christmas Future was trying to show Scrooge that he would die soon (of a stroke or heart attack) if he kept working himself to death & treating everyone so poorly. When Scrooge changed his ways, he added years to his life, and also to the life of Tiny Tim.

~~~~~
Jim Hutton (1934-79) & Ellery Queen =

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

I never thought of that before but it makes sense. Keeping his house and office freezing cold because he didn't want to waste money on coal must have been bad for his health. Combined with the stress from working constantly, not eating well or getting enough sleep was probably driving him into an early grave.

Re: Scrooge's Final Christmas?

The book clearly says he had a cold in his head and that is why the pot of gruel was prepared and waiting for him when he got home. I have always believed it may have turned quickly into pneumonia and he would have died that night had he not changed his ways.
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