The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring : Why where there so few working class heroes?

Why where there so few working class heroes?

Basically, nearly every character of note was nobility or descended from royal lineage.


It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

I think that is an intelligent question. It probably deserves a more intelligent answer than I can give.

On the most basic level, I think you craft the story that way so your true working class hero, Sam - the main hero upon whom all the important people are ultimately dependent - stands out more.

The Hobbit features fewer characters of royal lineage and more 'working class' types, especially in Peter Jackson's version. I don't find it the better for it. I don't find myself going "Thank God for the Tauriel story. Finally, a working class butt kicker! Finally, an upstairs-downstairs Elvish romance!"

Maybe that's just me.

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

IMO Hobbits are inherently working class.

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?


IMO Hobbits are inherently working class.
Except that, out of Frodo and his companions, that is only true of Samwise. Bilbo was well off and Frodo was his heir. Pippin, Merry, and even Fatty Bolger were all from old, aristocratic hobbit families. Bilbo and Frodo were effectively country squires.

"Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved." - T. Isabella

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

Frodo, Merry, and Piping were all from the upper class of hobbitry, which didn't mean that much as the Shire didn't have much in the way of class divisions. They had more money and leisure than the farmers or gardeners, but they all drank at the same inns and lived without fear of each other.
Of course Sam was the only major character from the working class, but as he was the most heroic person in the whole shebang, I say that makes up for a lot.

If most of the fellowship were from the royal or knightly class, well, that's who you send on quests! People who could fight, and protect noncombatants, and ride, and deal with the kings or nobles encountered en route, who could help or hinder ones quest. If you send farmers through a world like that, they get attacked by bandits and can't defend themselves, or thrown in ditches by local aristocrats who don't permit peasants to trespass on their lands.



Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it!

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?


If most of the fellowship were from the royal or knightly class, well, that's who you send on quests! People who could fight, and protect noncombatants, and ride, and deal with the kings or nobles encountered en route, who could help or hinder ones quest.


The occupations of "soldier" or "ranger" were limited to nobility?

Note that I am not attempting to be snarky. Curiosity is what drives my question.


It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

Commoners and serfs made up the majority of the foot soldiers of the average medieval army, but they were often poorly trained and had to return to work the fields eventually (making prolonged campaigns problematic). Only nobles and aristocrats had the leisure to become knights errant and wander the land.

The Rangers of the North were not necessarily descended from royalty or nobility, but they were all Dnedain descended from the Men of ancient Nmenor.

"Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved." - T. Isabella

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

During Aragorn's years as a ranger, he was simultaneously upper-class and working-class. A penniless ranger who slept on the ground and ate squirrels or frogs, who had such a superb education, knightly prowess, and social polish that he could walk into the courts of Gondor or Rohan and be accepted at the highest levels.

Common soldiers from the peasant class had minimal training and less education, even if they were excellent fighters and wood-wise, they wouldn't be able to march into Thoden's court, or get invited to the Council of Elrond in the first place. That's the real reason the Fellowship is made up of such upper-class types, that's who was in Rivendell at the time, and invited to the meeting that would change the course of history.



Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it!

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

If a soldier was good enough to "rise through the ranks", would they automatically become part of the noble class or would they remain an "average Joe" nevertheless respected for their accomplishments and/or loyalty?


It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

If a soldier continued to rise through the ranks he could still remain a social commoner for the rest of his life. However, if he rose high enough to become an officer and continued to distinguish himself then (depending on the society we are discussing) he could conceivably be rewarded with a title, making him part of the nobility.

"Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved." - T. Isabella

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

From "Many Meetings" in FotR:


'Do you really mean that Strider is one of the people of the old Kings?' said Frodo in wonder. `I thought they had all vanished long ago. I thought he was only a Ranger.'

'Only a Ranger!' cried Gandalf. `My dear Frodo, that is just what the Rangers are: the last remnant in the North of the great people, the Men of the West. They have helped me before; and I shall need their help in the days to come; for we have reached Rivendell, but the Ring is not yet at rest.'



So, at least as the term applies to Aragorn, Ranger does mean nobility of a sort.

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

Sam was braver than Gandalf, Boromir, Gimli, Legolas, or Aragorn? Yeah, OK.

Wendy? Darling? Light, of my life!

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

What otter said was "most heroic", but why quibble - yeah, Sam is easily in the running for either title.

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

Considering his life experience? I think so. Sam was "merely" a gardener/servant without any special abilities or training that rose to the occasion.

That said, it isn't exactly a competitioneven if cinematic Gimli would like to make it one .


It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

The simple answer is "they were all off working". They had jobs and they did them. They didn't have the luxury of heading off on quests, nor did they want to do so.

The average joe in the story knew little of what existed beyond the borders of their own lands, and most of what they heard about it was scary. Breelanders heard news from many places, but none of the showed the slightest desire to actually *travel* to any of those places, and the Rangers were largely shunned, or just barely tolerated. The people of Rohan feared Lorien and had an antagonistic relationship with Dunland. Gondor they respected, but there still wasn't a ton to-and-fro-ing between them, even though they were allies.

However, for a nation like Gondor to stand up to Mordor,countless "working-class heroes" had to keep doing what they did. Soldiers are working-class heroes, mostly. And even farmers are doing important things since soldiers will starve if someone does grow and prepare the food they eat. Also, in the Shire, gardeners are held in high-esteem, not soldiers or quest-takers who go gallivanting off into the Blue.

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

Tolkien's biographer stated that Tolkien wanted to create a mythology for England. Tolkien himself stated the LotR was "a fundamentally religious and Catholic work, unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision." Whatever the case, the dude LOVED mythology and wanted to create his own.

Now, he wasn't simply inspired by his love for all the various mythologies he wanted to do his own version and that means mostly playing by the same "rules."

The heroes in these tales tend to almost always be noble and if they're not then they eventually achieve nobility, often kinghood assuming they don't just become actual gods. That's just sorta how it's always worked.

And even if we were to do some modern day made-for-television "mythological spoof" or something then the show wouldn't be about random guy that does taxes it'd be about movie stars and such. But Tolkien being Tolkien the real hero is Samwise Gamgee, the most simple and honest little feller, who's pretty outta place with all those overly-fancy folk.

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

Tolkien was making mythology. He presents kings, gods, demons, etc., because of the demands of the story.

That said, he also gave quite a few interesting subversive pieces which hint that royal lineage, or rather, what "the world" finds impressive, is not what really counts, in the end.

Frodo comes from a well-to-do Hobbit family, but he is from the "weird" branch. And once outside of the Shire, he is looked on as insignificant, a silly, quaint rural chap.

Samwise is a major hero and definitely working-class. His carrying of much of the weight of the Quest is a very interesting subversion to tropes.

Gollum plays a big part, mostly inadvertently, in helping the heroes. He certainly is unexpected, and definitely is not regal.

Aragorn is the true King of Gondor, but does not flaunt it. He goes about as a Ranger, scorned by men until the time is right.

The top players are always Hobbits, and they are the last people you'd expect to be heroes.

Gandalf is a wizard, a whole other Being compared to the mortals of Middle Earth (even more than the immortals of Middle Earth), yet his role is never to aggrandize himself and his power, but rather to serve others and remain humble.

Tolkien was going after myth, but he was also trying to work in some of his Catholic Christian values, precepts, and themes, including the idea that good work (God's work) is done by the humble, the unexpected, the outcasts, and the ignored, while the powerful and strong must learn to be servants and not abuse or distort their power (lest it distort them in return). To that end, he provides readers with all kinds of twists and turns on the "usual" mythological types.

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

Thank you for taking the time to construct that post . Even though the light here is fading, you made certain your thoughts on the matter were shared.


It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

What can I say? I like talking about movies. I can do it longer than 9/10ths of my friends, so I come here. I'm really bummed out that the message boards are going away. I've signed the petitions, I've posted on facebook (on IMDb's facebook) and I think I've made myself as heard as I can to the IMDb. I think if I stopped posting on the boards, that would send them numbers that said, "See? People don't care," and I really do.

I'll probably send them more complaints once they shut the boards down, but for now, I'm mostly just interested in soaking in to a few great conversations.

Re: Why where there so few working class heroes?

I think these three boards were the light in the darkness that IMDb boards can present. I think we've had a really lovely community here and some of the best discussions I've had over my 16 years online talking Tolkien.
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